My home recording studio ideas. Here's the scoop.

[nomer]

I Was Using A Soundblaster Audigy 2 And I Moved Up To A Presonus Firepod And It Made A World Of Difference. Like Someone Took A Blanket Off My Monitors. And The Firepod's Converters Aren't Even Considered Great By Top Level Pro's. Trust Me, If You Compare The Soundblaster With Something Half Decent You'll Never Look Twice At Another Soundblaster Again. Awful Sounding Cards.

I think if I was going to spend $600.00 I would add a couple of hundred with it and just get a Fostex 16 Track Digital Recorder with built in CD-RW and effects.

http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--FOSVF160EX

The purpose of recording on PC is to make a very cheap alternative to getting things done. Why invest that much money in a sound card? Go all out and do your home studio up right and forget even trying to utilize a sound card to record your projects. Most multi-track recorders in that price range come with a USB interface where you can still use your software on the PC.

Just don't understand the concept here.

Mike

 

[Neeps]

The purpose of recording on PC is to make a very cheap alternative to getting things done.

no it isn't...

 

[nomer]

no it isn't...

Then fill me in on why you would choose a PC over the multi-track? Most professional home studio do not use PC's, they use multi-track recorders, consoles, etc. "no it isn't.." really doesn't expound on why you think otherwise.

Mike

 

[HangDawg]

looks like i'm starting at point 1 again. I'll look into some better monitors. Probly $300 max. I already stated this is gonna be budget but is gonna have good stuff...and i'll add more/better stuff later. Things are really hectic right now trying to settle things with the insurance co. and all, so i dunno how much money i'll actually get. I want to save most for a car, but the most extra I'll spend is around $800 or less.

With that being said, I think i'll try to go by the diagram from the Firepod (Firepod link ). Question: in the picture, it shows two studio monitors. Do these only work when you play something out of it?...Or do they even make noise when i start up Windows for example? So it's similar to a sound card? I now believe i'll go with the Delta or the Audiophile. Which one has output so I can run the studio monitors out of it? I assume both...

Keep hitting me up with stuff. Thanks to you guys my studio will be a TON better than i planned it to. ^^^This made me feel like an idiot though....I respect your opinions (a lot more than i used to, now), But don't make fun of me for stuff. I don't wanna sound like a whiney p*ssy right now, but i know i'm not professional. I'm new to this. Leave the stuff like that to yourselves please.

Will post more later. Thanks.

EDIT: Here are some monitors i was looking at. Keep in mind i was just browsing. Probly not the greatest, but i was just wandering this sight and fell upon these. My question: when it says "input=1/4", does it mean that's what connects to the sound card?...

Please post more reasonably priced monitors and what kind of cables they have to go into the sound card. I'm looking at Deltas and Audiophiles right now.

I've been searching the forums and have found a ton of info. I think my biggest decision is what kind of sound card i'll go w/ (delta or audiophile) and what mics i should use. I also wanna make a nice rack out of that Firepod and maybe add a graphic equalizer and a Feedback Destroyer....would the equalizer plug into the Firepod?

Please keep posting!

I didn't think you were a professional. I'm certainly not. The problem is when a dozen people tell you to stay away from the Audigy you just don't get it and say shit like

"I still need a cound card thought that has the standard speaker input. The studio monitors i'm considering (highly) use standard computer speaker inputs, and so far I've not seen a card suggested with one. This is making me think I should get the Audigy"

Maybe you should take the advice of the people you are asking these questions, instead of waiting for an answer that is in line with your own misconceptions.

 

[nomer]

The problem is when a dozen people tell you to stay away from the Audigy you just don't get it and say shit like

Maybe you should take the advice of the people you are asking these questions, instead of waiting for an answer that is in line with your own misconceptions.

HangDawg,

I agree with you 100% that you should take other people's experience with a product into account. But, there comes a time when you have to figure out what you like and go with it, regardless of what others are saying.

M-Audio is one of the most recommened on forums, but if you look at the user reviews on music websites, you will have ton's of bad reviews telling you stay away from it, mixed with other 10 ratings also.

Just take a look at the MAudio Audiophile USB on zzsounds...

http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/productreview--MDOAPUSB

Users of it bashed the hell out of it, yet I see it recommended alot on forums also. Everyone has their opinion of a product and when it all boils down to it, the only opinion that matters is how YOU feel about the product.

If you listen to everybody's opinion, you will get so confused you won't know what in the hell to buy.

Mike

 

[HangDawg]

HangDawg,

I agree with you 100% that you should take other people's experience with a product into account. But, there comes a time when you have to figure out what you like and go with it, regardless of what others are saying.

M-Audio is one of the most recommened on forums, but if you look at the user reviews on music websites, you will have ton's of bad reviews telling you stay away from it, mixed with other 10 ratings also.

Just take a look at the MAudio Audiophile USB on zzsounds...

http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/productreview--MDOAPUSB

Users of it bashed the hell out of it, yet I see it recommended alot on forums also. Everyone has their opinion of a product and when it all boils down to it, the only opinion that matters is how YOU feel about the product.

If you listen to everybody's opinion, you will get so confused you won't know what in the hell to buy.

Mike

Regardless, any M-Audio product will whoop the shit out of any Soundblaster. Now, you can't argue with that. I guess you can, but you'd be wrong.

 

[snow lizard]

Regardless, any M-Audio product will whoop the shit out of any Soundblaster. Now, you can't argue with that. I guess you can, but you'd be wrong.

Given a system where an M-Audio card works properly, I think I'd agree. I looked at a couple of reviews briefly, and people don't go into detail too much about what systems they're using, what preamps or what they're recording. It all makes a difference. I run a Delta 44 on a 500 megahertz Celeron with 128 megabytes of ram on Windows 98SE (pretty lame, huh?) and I've never had any problems with it. The noise level I'm getting is pretty close to the reported spec in my Allen & Heath manual, which is about 20 or 30 dB (or more) lower than what I've seen Soundblasters do with nothing plugged into them. For Mac users, I don't know. Some VIA chipset users have had popping issues in the past. It's all relative. If you have a full duplex sound card, you can record with it.

On an $800.00 budget, it might be a good thing to look at some of the inexpensive digital multitrack recorders out there, as has been suggested. Boss, Tascam or Yamaha might have something that fits the bill a bit better. If there are units that have a couple of mic pres with phantom power available, something like this could avoid all compatability issues and give a more intuitive interface to learn on.

To set up a basic DAW with 8 bills is a challenge, but it's just about possible. It's also more of a learning curve, and all the components have to be compatable. There are pros and cons to both methods, so the concerns are budget, expandability, ease of use and features. The only way to decide is to research your options.


sl

 

[SMX_Dizzy]

Ok. Right now I'm considering the Audiophile 2496. It sounds (figureatively...i've never heard its work) excellent. However it has RCA jacks (I guess that those are the same as standard computer speaker) inputs. The studio monitors i'll be getting are RCA and/or 1/4 (they have the option of both) and I've heard that the 1/4 input for them is better--quality and sound wise. Is it possible to get 1/4-to-RCA adapters? I don't think it's possible to get 1/4-to-coaxail S/PDIF adapters.....or is it? I'm not familiar w/ S/PDIF so I wouldn't know.

Will the Audiophile really be better than the Audigy?...even if i don't use any of the inputs or the cord-thing? Just wondering. I'm just thinking why it is an advantage to have the Audiophile rather than the Audigy...the only reason I can think of is b/c it's made for recording, which will probly enable it to sound better, regardless if I use the inputs/outputs or not.

Keep posting please. I think I'm starting to make some serious headway. I'll post questions about an idea for a rack later.

 

[snow lizard]

This is going to be long and maybe confusing, but it would be very good for you to learn this stuff if you're going to get serious about recording.

When and if you get into higher end audio stuff, you may find that it would be cheapest to learn how to solder and make your own cables. For what you're doing right now, you can always buy cheap adapter cables at Radio Shack. You could also get an electronics shop to make your cables, but it would be more expensive.

Cables:

- RCA type plugs and jacks are common for stereo connections, like hooking up a tape deck or turntable to a reciever.

- 3mm or 1/8" TRS jacks and plugs are common for consumer level soundcards, CD Rom headphone jacks and small headphones. TRS means Tip-Ring-Sleeve. Any headphone jack is usually TRS - eg. tip carries the signal to one speaker, ring carries the signal to the other speaker, and they have a common ground which is the sleeve.

- 1/4" jacks and plugs are either TRS or TS. Again, a headphone jack is TRS, but this one's bigger. A guitar cable is the same size, but it only has a tip and a sleeve. No ring. 2 conductors only.

- 3 pin XLR connectors are the current standard for microphones. Although there are 3 conductors, the signal from a mic is mono, not stereo like headphones. A transformer can be used to balance the signal. The signal is then carried through 2 conductors in a twisted pair, more like alternating current from a power plug in a house. The third pin is a shield, and sometimes it's only connected at one end of the cable. This balanced type of signal can be run through a cable that is much longer than an unbalanced cable. Unbalanced cable will start to act more and more like a radio antenna if it's longer than 20 feet - too noisy. Balanced cables can run for more than 100 feet without having any noise.

All you need to know is that the speaker output with any type of connector can be adapted to a speaker input with any type of connector as long as you're using the right type of cable. 1/4" TS to RCA is fine. 1/8" TRS to 2 RCA's in a Y cable is fine. These cables are easy to find. It's the same type of signal at both ends, regardless of the connector. These are unbalanced signals. You can even run a soundcard line out into a home stereo amp.

With something like an XLR cable, you can run a mixer or preamp output into something like the Delta 44. The inputs and outputs on the Delta 44 can accept a balanced or unbalanced signal, so they're pretty flexable. They're 1/4" TRS jacks that can accept a TRS (for balanced) or TS (for unbalanced) plug. A balanced cable that goes from XLR to TRS is harder to find, and more expensive unless you learn how to make the cable yourself. The good news is you shouldn't need one yet.

The other good news is that a line out from any sound card should be able to plug in to any set of powered monitors, even if the connectors are different. All you need is the right adapter cable.

S/PDIF is completely different. This is a digital signal. You can go from S/PDIF to S/PDIF only. An example might be if you want to connect a DVD player to your soundcard.

The Audiophile will smoke the Audigy on a system where it works properly. If you want to record drums, you might want to consider a card more like the Delta 44, which has 4 channels of input. If you get more gear later on when you can afford it, you can record a drum kit very well with 4 microphones. 2 overhead condensers is a very good place to start, but after you learn how to make this work, you might want to add a kick drum mic and a snare mic.

The quality and length of your cables will affect sound quality. 1/4" is bigger, better cable than RCA usually. Shorter cables are better.


sl

 

[Halion]

Is it possible to get 1/4-to-RCA adapters? I don't think it's possible to get 1/4-to-coaxail S/PDIF adapters.....or is it? I'm not familiar w/ S/PDIF so I wouldn't know.

Yes it's possible to get 1/4 -> RCA adapters. They are basicly the same thing, only a different plug. Don't worry about the quality difference between RCA and 1/4 plugs. It is so small you will never notice it. S/PDIF is a digital way of sending a signal through a cable, and therefor you won't find something like a 1/4 to S/PDIF cable, ever.

Will the Audiophile really be better than the Audigy?...even if i don't use any of the inputs or the cord-thing? Just wondering. I'm just thinking why it is an advantage to have the Audiophile rather than the Audigy...the only reason I can think of is b/c it's made for recording, which will probly enable it to sound better, regardless if I use the inputs/outputs or not.

YES! The internals of the card all work at 24 bit, so you will never be "faking" the computer into using 24 bit that's really just 16 bit somewhere down the line. That's a good thing, but the best thing is that whenever you feel like using the inputs or outputs, it will sound good. Imagin a good signal beeing cheaply converted to a digital signal, then beeing cheaply processed by the sound card, then beeing cheaply converted back to audio, through a cheap 1/8 cable. That's 4x cheap versus none times cheap compared to the Audiophile.

 

[SMX_Dizzy]

Oooo. I was misleading myself. I thought that RCA were the same as 1/8. Oops. Unless they are, i'm a major dork. But: it doesn't matter whether i would use the RCA or 1/4 inputs b/c i'd need to get adapters regardless (unless RCA is the same as 1/8, which i dont think it is). But YES, i'm almost 100% sure i'll get the Audiophile 2496 now...I dont think i'll be dissapointed.

I'm still organizing my rack ideas and questions, but here's what i'm thinking about doing: since the Firepod can be rackmounted (and is probly intended to be), I thought I'd put it in a 4 or 6 space rack along with a Feedback Destroyer and some other things. What else should I put in that are "other things"?...graphic equalizers or somethin?

Please keep posting. I'm starting to feel really good about my decisions, and i think i'll have a lot easier time once this is all done.

 

[snow lizard]

Since the Firepod and the 2496 are both soundcards, but the Firepod also has its own preamps while the 2496 does not, why would you get both?

For basic recording, I'm not sure that a Feedback Destroyer or a graphic EQ would be suitable. You shouldn't have microphones and monitors live at the same time while recording - no feedback. You have access to EQ in the computer software, and you still need money left over for mics, stands, cables and monitors.


sl

 

[two5tolife]

MY GOD!! WHO IS THIS GUY PUSHING THE SB ON THE NEWBIE?!?!?! Listen, you're getting confused on the whole situation because you've got a little bias in ya (you're friend is probably telling you that the SB and everything else in his set-up is perfect, but honestly, after a while of working with higher-end products, you WILL see the almost obvious difference). Why don't you do this. Save all of your money, learn a little of the lingo first. You don't need a feedback reducer, all that is EQ and is mainly used for live shows... plus you are DEFINATELY not equiped to work with one yet. There are a lot of free plugins available, eqt, compressors, etc, that you can tinker with before you go out spending money. Download as much freeware as you can and make sure you can atleast learn how to use this stuff! GO TO A FREAKIN MUSIC STORE AND LOOK AT THE PRODUCTS!

 

[SMX_Dizzy]

I would like the 2496 and the Firepod both. I will get the actual soundcard for my computer, and then get the Firepod. Since I build computers, I'm gonna build mine right when we move into our new house. I probly wont get the Firepod or anything else recording-wise untill close to the end of June.

I would however like to make a nice rack. Should i do this?...or should i just stick with the Firepod and not mount it to a rack? Good point for the Feedback Destroyer. What do compressors do?

AND my first question wasn't answered...are RCA and 1/8 the same? I've been led to believe they are, but when i saw Snow Lizard's post he made them look different. He's probly right, eh?

Well, I'm hopefully gonna try to carpet my recording room today or next weekend. After that I'll begin my drum platform and start acousticizing the room. Thanks for all the input guys. I probly woulda had a really crappy studio without you!

 

[SMX_Dizzy]

GO TO A FREAKIN MUSIC STORE AND LOOK AT THE PRODUCTS!

Unfortunately, there are no music stores around me that have recording products. I looked at A TON in the music warehouse my mom's cousin works at, and looked at not much at all in SamAsh.....cept the closest SamAsh is in Cincy, and hour away.

 

[cheywind]

the Audigy 2 Platinum is not necessarily a gamer's card: it has midi and 1/4 and things of that nature...my friend has the Audigy 1 Platinum and he uses it for recording, and it rocks. Who makes the Delta and the Motu?...I'm going with the Audigy 2 b/c i can get it for $99.

As for recording, I'm going with Cubase SE (one of the things i fogot to mention). I've used it and it's incredible. I love the multitrack aspect...endless possibilities!

"for monitors...i'm pretty satisfied with my active events tr8's,
and i suggest you put some "studio monitors" on top of your list otherwise its not really worth the effort to use nice mics, cables, preamps, mixer, soundcard, and then try to mix and premaster on cheap pc or hifi speakers..."

^ ^ ^ precisely. that's why i'm getting studio monitors!

Thanks very much for saying something! Keep them coming if you don't mind!

New too...what are the 'monitors'...I mean what do they look like and what do they do? I am thinking I have them confused with something else? Then again...my head is cluttered with a whole bunch of info right now...it could be I do know...I just don't know it...thank you for response

 

[two5tolife]

Ok, for your RCA question... do you have a PS2 or other gaming unit? If so, you know the output of the unit that has 3 colored plugs, one yellow, one red, and one white? Well the red and white plugs on that are RCA. They are used on pretty much all consumer gear and semi pro gear. JUST THE RED AND WHITE PLUGS! The yellow plug is for visual input!

1/8th plugs, as I'm sure you know, are used on typical consumer audio gear such as personal CD player headphones, computer microphones, etc.

Ok, a monitor is just a fancy term for speakers. But they aren't just any type of speakers, they are ones that are pretty flat in response. No coloring of the sound (coloring meaning adding any inaccurate details), which means you can get a pretty good idea on how it will sound in a wide range of consumer systems. That flater the response, the better. But if you can't get the $2,000 near-fields, and must settle for a cheaper set, its good to know HOW your monitors color sound, so you can edit as accurate as possible. How do you do this, you might ask? Well, burn your mixes to cd and listen to them on different systems. Cars, personal CD players, boomboxes, etc. Take notes when you listen too. Is the bass too high, but sounded fine on your studio monitors? Then they exagerate the lows a bit too much, so when you go back to mixing, you'll know that you don't need to raise the lower frequencies but so much. Don't worry if you don't learn it all at once. It WILL be confusing, but eventually you will get it, you've just gotta be open to learning it.

 

[BRIEFCASEMANX]

I think if I was going to spend $600.00 I would add a couple of hundred with it and just get a Fostex 16 Track Digital Recorder with built in CD-RW and effects.

http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--FOSVF160EX

The purpose of recording on PC is to make a very cheap alternative to getting things done. Why invest that much money in a sound card? Go all out and do your home studio up right and forget even trying to utilize a sound card to record your projects. Most multi-track recorders in that price range come with a USB interface where you can still use your software on the PC.

Just don't understand the concept here.

Mike

Does it even have preamps on it? If not than you're going to need a ton of outboard pres or a mixer......with the firepod I do not own or need a mixer. Add a good 500+ to that price for a mixer unless you want a crappy Behringer. The Firepod records at 96khz which will sound much much better and *I'm guessing* has better converters. The DAC seems better than the ADC(which is by and far what you are going to use the most). It quantizes all audio to 16bit....no thanks, the firepod records 24bit. Has a 40gb harddrive......that'll get eaten up in no time flat.....oh wait, maybe not if you can only record in 16-BIT 44.1KHZ! It has a 24 track limit while the Firepod is unlimited or limited only by your DAW's track limitations. Unless I was a guy who NEEDED his recording setup to be mobile I probably wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole. That's my opinion.

 

[c7sus]

Look at the MAudio MIDIsport stuff for MIDI. It's USB and works trouble-free. Get enough I/O for each MIDI device you have. It really simplifies life.

Ditch the Audigy card. It's not meant for recording.

You can take the output direct off any decent soundcard to your monitors. Most folks use a mixer to route their monitor signals and run preamps and DI's direct to the soundcard inputs.

Check out the Echo Layla3G. They use decent chips for their converters and their drivers are pretty stable. About $500US if you shop around.

You can thank us later.

 

[snow lizard]

What do compressors do?

AND my first question wasn't answered...are RCA and 1/8 the same? I've been led to believe they are, but when i saw Snow Lizard's post he made them look different. He's probly right, eh?

I hope so. I'm not always right!

RCA and 1/8 are definitely not the same, but it's easy to adapt from one to the other.

Now there's this...


Compressors do a number of things, but not necessarily what you want - especially if you buy the wrong one, and also even if you have the very best but don't know how to operate it.

Basically, a compressor is one of the four main dynamics processors. To understand compression, you need to understand dynamics. Compressors squeeze dynamic range, and there's a bunch of cool stuff you can do with them if you have a nice one. The problem is, if you aren't very familiar with how to set them for what you want, and what you're recording, then 97% of the time you'd be better off without one.

I'm sorry if this is confusing, but it's true.

The beauty of a DAW is that you can make copies of your recordings, so you have the origionals just as they were recorded - then you can play with compression, eq and all kinds of other cool tricks in the computer so you can learn, practice and save money from having to buy the more expensive version that may or may not be better.

The very best tool is knowledge. All of the professionals here can take the cheapest recording gear and make great recordings with it simply because they know how.


sl