MSR-24 vs TSR-8 vs 238

[jpmorris]

That is good insight! I’m thinking I want more of the wide tape width as I’ll be pairing with another tape machine through the MTS-1000. This gives me wider tape to play with for drums, or a beefy synth tone or whatever. Going to experiment. On the other hand it still puts me in a place of limitation which I have grown to love when using tape machines.

I think the 24 may just blow my limitations and need to sync out of the water, as well as give a similar level of fidelity as my 688 due to track width. Well I’m not sure on that but that’s kinda how I see it.
If I were to abandon my other machines and get a console this would make more sense, but I really like recording onto cassette and I have amassed a bunch of blank ones.

Settling on the TSR-8 and hopefully picking up next week!

A lot of my favorite bands used the Otati MX 5050 which seems to be a little bit of a higher grade machine from the TSR-8 but they are comparable and the TSR-8 just fits right into my current tascam set up with the Midi-izer at the center.

Next step is finding the right board for this machine. I’m thinking I’ll go with a rack unit, so my research continues! But I’m in no rush at this point just gonna enjoy the ride

Glad that's helpful! I always wanted to do prog rock and 8 tracks was too limiting for the complex stuff I was trying to do. Before I got the MSR-24 I had two TSR-8s linked together giving me a 14-track setup, but it made mixdown a pain.
What I did with the MSR-24 and still do with the MX-80 is to record everything that's sequenced onto the 24-track, and then do the vocals and bass on the TSR-8, because those are the bits I'm worst at and need a lot of re-takes. The auto-punchin feature of the TSR-8 is a godsend for that. When I'm happy I use the synchronizer to transfer the TSR-8 tracks to 2" for the final mixdown.
If it's a simple song that's going for more of a punk or 60s vibe where 8 tracks is enough, or a necessary limitation to get the period sound, I'll just do it all on the TSR-8 anyway. Where it's just tracking the bass and vocals, I tend to divide the tape up so I can use tracks 1-4 on one song and 5-7 for another song and thereby save tape.

As for commercial use, I notice King Gizzard are doing most of their tracking on a TASCAM 38, though I'm pretty sure they do the mixing in a DAW. Likewise, The Murlocs latest album appears to have been tracked on a TSR-8, presumably so they could play the tape back on the King Gizzard machine.

 

[pattarginkom]

Glad that's helpful! I always wanted to do prog rock and 8 tracks was too limiting for the complex stuff I was trying to do. Before I got the MSR-24 I had two TSR-8s linked together giving me a 14-track setup, but it made mixdown a pain.
What I did with the MSR-24 and still do with the MX-80 is to record everything that's sequenced onto the 24-track, and then do the vocals and bass on the TSR-8, because those are the bits I'm worst at and need a lot of re-takes. The auto-punchin feature of the TSR-8 is a godsend for that. When I'm happy I use the synchronizer to transfer the TSR-8 tracks to 2" for the final mixdown.
If it's a simple song that's going for more of a punk or 60s vibe where 8 tracks is enough, or a necessary limitation to get the period sound, I'll just do it all on the TSR-8 anyway. Where it's just tracking the bass and vocals, I tend to divide the tape up so I can use tracks 1-4 on one song and 5-7 for another song and thereby save tape.

As for commercial use, I notice King Gizzard are doing most of their tracking on a TASCAM 38, though I'm pretty sure they do the mixing in a DAW. Likewise, The Murlocs latest album appears to have been tracked on a TSR-8, presumably so they could play the tape back on the King Gizzard machine.

Dang that recording process makes a lot of sense! I like that work flow. Both the saving tape as well as the sequencing on the 24 and the extra takes on the TSR-8.

My final mix down deck is currently a tascam 32-2. 1/4” tape at 15ips Not the greatest but not the worst!

I love KGLW!! That’s cool, I didn’t realize the two machine were so alike you could interchange tapes. I also never really took note of what machines they were using so that’s really cool!

My whole work flow vision revolves around demoing on cassette, laying down scratch drums and the likes at my apartment studio, then bringing cassettes to my dual 688, TSR-8 set up, where I can be louder and track full drums, guitars, etc. but honestly my second spot is weather temperate so I can’t use it in the winter or summer until it’s treated. So basically my home studio is gonna have UHNF til then hahaha. That’s really just been my idea in my head who knows how it’ll actually pan out!

 

[pattarginkom]

I wanted to add that I’m a big fan of the elephant 6 collective, which used the Otari MX 5050. I just read a chapter in ‘Endless Endless’ (a detailed account of their history) where upon recording Olivia tremor Control’s “Black Foliage” they would all go home with tapes then bring them back to the studio and it was one guys job to sync the decks up. Just such a cool read haha. I’ll share a photo of the reading later tonight when I’m home.

 

[jpmorris]

Dang that recording process makes a lot of sense! I like that work flow. Both the saving tape as well as the sequencing on the 24 and the extra takes on the TSR-8.

My final mix down deck is currently a tascam 32-2. 1/4” tape at 15ips Not the greatest but not the worst!

I love KGLW!! That’s cool, I didn’t realize the two machine were so alike you could interchange tapes. I also never really took note of what machines they were using so that’s really cool!

My whole work flow vision revolves around demoing on cassette, laying down scratch drums and the likes at my apartment studio, then bringing cassettes to my dual 688, TSR-8 set up, where I can be louder and track full drums, guitars, etc. but honestly my second spot is weather temperate so I can’t use it in the winter or summer until it’s treated. So basically my home studio is gonna have UHNF til then hahaha. That’s really just been my idea in my head who knows how it’ll actually pan out!

Good luck! And yes, I don't have a '38 to try with, but since the heads are literally identical between both machines, there's nothing to prevent it being compatible, assuming you leave the noise reduction off on the TSR-8. I think one of my TSR-8s was actually bought from someone who used to do that, they had the TSR-8 at home and a 38 in the studio or something.
I used a '32 as my first mixdown deck, but it was in a poor state of repair and I think my attempts at fixing it made things worse. I managed to get a Studer A807 when prices were low and that's my mastering deck now.

As for finding out about KGLW, that was like a fever dream. I was convinced 'Robot Stop' was recorded in 1974 or something. Discovering it was actually recorded in 2016 by seven Australians who had somehow managed to get time in a private US studio belonging to some other record label that specialises in 1960s jazz, whose main workhorse is a 1" 8-track machine from the 60s, that was just nonsense. It had to be some kind of mistake. Then I found a video clip from 'Quarters' where they're actually tracking on the vintage 1" tape deck.
My assumption is that they liked tracking to tape so much that they got the TASCAM for their own studio shortly afterwards, but that's just a guess.

 

[sweetbeats]

MSR-24 track width is significantly wider than cassette 8-track, and 4x faster tape speed; much higher fidelity potential than cassette 8-track. The TSR-8 is about 4x the track width of cassette 8-track.

While chassis of the TSR-8 is not as robust a build as the Otari MX5050-8, the Tascam has a much more sophisticated servo tension system…more gentle and refined tape handling. And the integrated dbx is a bonus if you use it. The TSR-8 is much more compact as well. There are pros and cons to each machine comparatively but they are both good machines.

 

[pattarginkom]

Loved reading about this so thought I’d share! Sorry if they’re side ways they’re not in my phone

 

[pattarginkom]

MSR-24 track width is significantly wider than cassette 8-track, and 4x faster tape speed; much higher fidelity potential than cassette 8-track. The TSR-8 is about 4x the track width of cassette 8-track.

While chassis of the TSR-8 is not as robust a build as the Otari MX5050-8, the Tascam has a much more sophisticated servo tension system…more gentle and refined tape handling. And the integrated dbx is a bonus if you use it. The TSR-8 is much more compact as well. There are pros and cons to each machine comparatively but they are both good machines.

Thanks for laying that out about the tape width. Didn’t realize the MSR-24 was 4x faster and a bit wider.
That’s encouraging on the specs of the TSR-8

Anyone have any info on the two head system? I can’t wrap my… head.. around it. What are you losing out on?

 

[jpmorris]

Thanks for laying that out about the tape width. Didn’t realize the MSR-24 was 4x faster and a bit wider.
That’s encouraging on the specs of the TSR-8

Anyone have any info on the two head system? I can’t wrap my… head.. around it. What are you losing out on?

You can't do tape delay with only two heads, and calibrating the machine is a lot harder because you can't monitor the recording directly, you have to record a bit, rewind, play it back, tweak and repeat until the channel is lined up correctly. With a 3-head machine you can just set it into record and adjust it until the signal matches the levels you want.

 

[pattarginkom]

Hey all! Scored the TSR-8!
I traded my dr z Maz 38r 1x12 for a ‘67 fender blackface super reverb. Then traded that for the tsr-8 hahaha whatever works! Things a beast. Can’t wait til it’s implemented in the system. Next step is to get it tuned up by my local tech. Many more steps to go but I feel accomplished to have it here.

 

[RFR]

It happened! Awesome