importance of multiple overhead mics

[NotThatBright]

I watch a lot of ESPN.

Are you disgusted with it yet? They don't even talk about sports anymore. It's all human interest bullshit. That and dickheads arguing for the sake of arguing. And guys trying to be funny, which worked for Kilborn, Patrick, and Olbermann when they were there, but these current guys just sound like jerkoffs. I know it's a 24-hour news cycle now and they have to fill up the time, etc...

Maybe I'm just an old crotchety man already. All I know is, IN MY DAY, ESPN was better.

 

[Greg_L]

Are you disgusted with it yet? They don't even talk about sports anymore. It's all human interest bullshit. That and dickheads arguing for the sake of arguing. And guys trying to be funny, which worked for Kilborn, Patrick, and Olbermann when they were there, but these current guys just sound like jerkoffs. I know it's a 24-hour news cycle now and they have to fill up the time, etc...

Maybe I'm just an old crotchety man already. All I know is, IN MY DAY, ESPN was better.

It's like a necessary evil. I really only pay attention during football season. I love football. The rest of the year....it's just background noise. I like the analysis though. Every network has great ex-players doing the talking, but I just like ESPN's people better. I watched these guys in their prime and most of them have the credentials to be worth listening to. I like the film breakdowns and X's and Os talk. And the fresh eye candy "reporters" aren't bad either. Lindsay Czarniak is better to look at than Linda Cohn.

 

[NotThatBright]

It's like a necessary evil. I really only pay attention during football season. I love football. The rest of the year....it's just background noise. I like the analysis though. Every network has great ex-players doing the talking, but I just like ESPN's people better. I watched these guys in their prime and most of them have the credentials to be worth listening to. I like the film breakdowns and X's and Os talk. And the fresh eye candy "reporters" aren't bad either. Lindsay Czarniak is better to look at than Linda Cohn.

I also love football. Probably college a little more than pro, but both a shitload. I can understand what you mean about seeing these retired guys doing analysis... I was a huge Brian Dawkins fan his whole career, and though he's not quite as good at analysis and communication as he was at doling out concussions to receivers, I still enjoy seeing him on TV.

Linda Cohn is just hanging on by a thread, isn't she? I don't know why, but for some reason I picture her as being tough to deal with off-camera. I bet she is not happy about the influx of new female "talent" at the station.

 

[Greg_L]

Yeah football is the shit. I love college football too. Sometimes, often, more than pro. Brian Dawkins is pretty okay. Ryan Clark was cool too while he was looking for a team. I really like when Cris Carter is on Mike and Mike. He and Mike Golic break shit down to the real level. I like hearing players shed some light on how things really are.

The worst to me is Hannah Storm. I just don't get her. When she started showing up on Sportscenter, I was like what the blue fuck is going on here? Hannah fucking Storm? I thought she was like from The View or something. Linda Cohn is at least a female athlete. That scraggly old seahag is a fucking hockey goalie. But Hannah Storm? I really don't know what she brings to the table. Journalistic integrity maybe? Pffft, please.

You should get involved with the football thread in the prime time section.

 

[NotThatBright]

Yeah football is the shit. I love college football too. Sometimes, often, more than pro. Brian Dawkins is pretty okay. Ryan Clark was cool too while he was looking for a team. I really like when Cris Carter is on Mike and Mike. He and Mike Golic break shit down to the real level. I like hearing players shed some light on how things really are.

The worst to me is Hannah Storm. I just don't get her. When she started showing up on Sportscenter, I was like what the blue fuck is going on here? Hannah fucking Storm? I thought she was like from The View or something. Linda Cohn is at least a female athlete. That scraggly old seahag is a fucking hockey goalie. But Hannah Storm? I really don't know what she brings to the table. Journalistic integrity maybe? Pffft, please.

You should get involved with the football thread in the prime time section.

I still hate Cris Carter from when he was a cokehead with the Eagles and Buddy Ryan had to cut him to get his attention. He straightened himself out after that, but he could have been a great target for Cunningham in the 90s. I was pretty young back then and without the constant, invasive 24-hour coverage of athletes that exists today, I didn't know much about why he was cut. Now that I do, I choose to dislike him "ex post facto".

I can't explain this, but I think Hannah Storm is fucking HOT. Like 99% of men, 99.9% of the time I prefer women in their 20s to those in their 50s, but for some reason she catches my eye. She's been on ESPN for years... you might be confusing her with someone else if you think she was on The View. Or maybe she did both, hell if I know.

 

[Greg_L]

Lol. I don't know if she was on The View. I'm just saying she seemed like one of those types to me. I don't remember her before like 2007-ish. She is attractive for a 50+ year old woman. TV makeup. Good stuff!

I remember Cris Carter back when was at Ohio State. That fucker was a great WR. I saw him play in person when Oh St came down to LSU for a rare day game in Tiger Stadium. They tied 13-13 in a hard hitting violent game. LSU had a WR named Wendell Davis that was every bit as good or better than Cris Carter. They were both great. Then I saw Cris Carter beat my Saints repeatedly as a stupid ass Minnesuckass Viking. Yeah, fuck him.

 

[NotThatBright]

Lol. I don't know if she was on The View. I'm just saying she seemed like one of those types to me. I don't remember her before like 2007-ish. She is attractive for a 50+ year old woman. TV makeup. Good stuff!

I remember Cris Carter back when was at Ohio State. That fucker was a great WR. I saw him play in person when Oh St came down to LSU for a rare day game in Tiger Stadium. They tied 13-13 in a hard hitting violent game. LSU had a WR named Wendell Davis that was every bit as good or better than Cris Carter. They were both great. Then I saw Cris Carter beat my Saints repeatedly as a stupid ass Minnesuckass Viking. Yeah, fuck him.

Yeah, I know you didn't mean it literally. If I ever see her on the street and she looks like a dog, I'm going to send an email to ESPN both complimenting the talent of their makeup people and castigating them for making me believe she was hot all these years.

I don't remember him in college... I was pretty young then and when it comes to college ball I can only remember guys that got ALL the attention (I can remember that bowl game where The BOZ wore that NCAA t-shirt, I was probably 8), and I remember ND teams starting when they had Tony Rice as QB and won the National Championship. I guess the Saints and Vikings were both in the old NFC Central. Thank God they left the NFC East alone when they did that redistricting, or whatever the hell they want to call it.

By the way, thanks for Darren Sproles.

 

[Greg_L]

Yeah, I know you didn't mean it literally. If I ever see her on the street and she looks like a dog, I'm going to send an email to ESPN both complimenting the talent of their makeup people and castigating them for making me believe she was hot all these years.

I don't remember him in college... I was pretty young then and when it comes to college ball I can only remember guys that got ALL the attention (I can remember that bowl game where The BOZ wore that NCAA t-shirt, I was probably 8), and I remember ND teams starting when they had Tony Rice as QB and won the National Championship. I guess the Saints and Vikings were both in the old NFC Central. Thank God they left the NFC East alone when they did that redistricting, or whatever the hell they want to call it.

By the way, thanks for Darren Sproles.

Lol. Man, I hated to see him go. I get why we had to do it, but fuuuuuuuuck. He is awesome.

The Saints and Vikings were never in the same division, but back in the day when we rarely made the playoffs it always seemed like when we did, we had to play Minnesota. And they'd win.

The Boz....I remember him well. I guess I'm about 5 years older than you. He was every bit worthy of his hype. That fucker was one of the greatest college linebackers ever. Maybe THE greatest. He played well for his short time in the NFL too. He just had that one moment where he got trucked by Bo Jackson and that has unfairly secured his legacy as a flop. I don't think it's fair because fucking Bo Jackson ran over and away from everybody. ESPN just did a 30 for 30 doc about The Boz. It was really good.

 

[NotThatBright]

The Boz....I remember him well. I guess I'm about 5 years older than you. He was every bit worthy of his hype. That fucker was one of the greatest college linebackers ever. Maybe THE greatest. He played well for his short time in the NFL too. He just had that one moment where he got trucked by Bo Jackson and that has unfairly secured his legacy as a flop. I don't think it's fair because fucking Bo Jackson ran over and away from everybody. ESPN just did a 30 for 30 doc about The Boz. It was really good.

All those freaking 30 for 30s are great... even the ones that shouldn't interest me at all, like the ones about hockey. The one about Miami football in the '80s-'90s is awesome. I used to fucking hate them when they were good.

The thing about Boz that I still don't know... Once he had to get off steroids, did he still have NFL size? I always kind of assumed that was why he washed out in the NFL, that he couldn't stay big enough to play LB in the NFL without drugs. I did see his 30 for 30... to me, he came off as manipulative, trying too hard to look repentant for acting like a prick in his youth. The tears didn't seem genuine to me.

Just as a side note, Stone Cold was an AWESOME movie. I loved it when I was 13 and I could watch it again now.

"It's better to be first in hell... than second in heaven!"
-Chains

 

[Greg_L]

All those freaking 30 for 30s are great... even the ones that shouldn't interest me at all, like the ones about hockey. The one about Miami football in the '80s-'90s is awesome. I used to fucking hate them when they were good.

The thing about Boz that I still don't know... Once he had to get off steroids, did he still have NFL size? I always kind of assumed that was why he washed out in the NFL, that he couldn't stay big enough to play LB in the NFL without drugs. I did see his 30 for 30... to me, he came off as manipulative, trying too hard to look repentant for acting like a prick in his youth. The tears didn't seem genuine to me.

Just as a side note, Stone Cold was an AWESOME movie. I loved it when I was 13 and I could watch it again now.

"It's better to be first in hell... than second in heaven!"
-Chains

I don't know how steroids affected his size. Steroids obviously make people bigger and stronger, but I believe him when he says it was about injury recovery. Anabolic steroids excel at getting you healed up and ready to go way faster than simple rest and relaxation. I think steroids hurt him by allowing him to work harder and more often. Steroids are great for building muscle, but when your muscles get stronger faster than your connective tissue can keep up, you get bad problems. Bodybuilders are always tearing muscles off the bone because they can lift more weight than their tendons can support. The Boz had bad shoulders. I can believe it. The shoulder joint is a prime example of a delicate network of tendons and ligaments holding everything together. And what did they show in that documentary? Footage of The Boz slamming up heavy behind-the-neck military presses. Nowadays that exercise is generally frowned upon as a shoulder killer.

Anyway, I think The Boz would actually do better in today's NFL than he did back then. He never really had "NFL size" for his position that I can remember. He was smallish for an NFL linebacker back then. He was a man among boys in college. The NFL is obviously much different. Back then, inside linebackers had to be run stoppers and that was an era for stud runningbacks. The Boz was no match for guys like Walter Payton and obviously Bo Jackson. But today, his smaller size and extreme athletic ability could be an asset. Offenses don't run as hard and defenses have to be fast and agile to keep up with the sophisticated passing attacks of modern offense. I think if you took 1984 Boz and dropped him into a 2014 NFL defense, he'd be pretty damn good.

 

[NotThatBright]

I don't know how steroids affected his size. Steroids obviously make people bigger and stronger, but I believe him when he says it was about injury recovery. Anabolic steroids excel at getting you healed up and ready to go way faster than simple rest and relaxation. I think steroids hurt him by allowing him to work harder and more often. Steroids are great for building muscle, but when your muscles get stronger faster than your connective tissue can keep up, you get bad problems. Bodybuilders are always tearing muscles off the bone because they can lift more weight than their tendons can support. The Boz had bad shoulders. I can believe it. The shoulder joint is a prime example of a delicate network of tendons and ligaments holding everything together. And what did they show in that documentary? Footage of The Boz slamming up heavy behind-the-neck military presses. Nowadays that exercise is generally frowned upon as a shoulder killer.

Anyway, I think The Boz would actually do better in today's NFL than he did back then. He never really had "NFL size" for his position that I can remember. He was smallish for an NFL linebacker back then. He was a man among boys in college. The NFL is obviously much different. Back then, inside linebackers had to be run stoppers and that was an era for stud runningbacks. The Boz was no match for guys like Walter Payton and obviously Bo Jackson. But today, his smaller size and extreme athletic ability could be an asset. Offenses don't run as hard and defenses have to be fast and agile to keep up with the sophisticated passing attacks of modern offense. I think if you took 1984 Boz and dropped him into a 2014 NFL defense, he'd be pretty damn good.

That's interesting... I think you're right about LBs needing to be quicker to stop passing more than running, since the freaking owners have done everything they can to make pass coverage and QB pressure illegal. One thing I can't agree with is that he just did juice to recover from injury. I NEVER believe anyone who says that's why they do it. I'll get more personal than I need to to explain why. This was 16 years ago.. Here we go:

I was always muscular and strong, but very lean... told I look like a wrestler (a real wrestler, like the sport). Could not put on a pound to save my life, regardless of diet or exercise. I didn't care that much... I lifted two or three times a week as a matter of habit and didn't play football in high school, so I didn't need to be big for any good reason. Anyway, when I was in college, a lot of my friends from HS were doing juice- a couple were football players, several weren't . Eventually I told my one friend who was getting it for everyone, "what the hell, get me a cycle of something that will let me get stronger and not just feel like I'm wasting time at the gym." I wasn't going to class, so I had to do something. He gets me 10 CCs of testosterone and 70 D-bol pills and explained how to spread it out over 8 weeks. And so...

A week into it I started gaining a pound a day. It was mostly water and made my face and bloated and stupid-looking, but every day at the gym the increase in strength and endurance was incredible. It was unbelievable. You are right about how people can fuck up tendons by lifting more than the tendons can handle when you're on that stuff. I was careful not to do so, but I saw friends do it. I was laughing at how huge I was getting.

When I went off them 8 weeks later, it all started to go away... the water retention (thankfully) and the extra muscle.

My point is that the only reason I never took them again is that I didn't really care to begin with about getting big... I more or less did it for something to do, and everyone else seemed to be having a good time. Athletes who feel they have something to gain by it... when they do it once, which I suspect 97% of them have... there is no way in hell they are going to stop if there is any way they feel they can get away with it. They work too well. If they see their buddy doing it, they're going to try it themselves. I sure as hell don't believe the baseball players who say they only did it once. With that kind of money at stake? They did it until it became outlawed in baseball, AND they felt that there was a good chance of getting caught. I bet the Boz was on from late in high school. Just a feeling I have.

By the way, now that I'm in my mid-30s, I'm happy as hell to have this body type. I'm as strong and lean as when I was 21. All the guys who could put on weight that I grew up with are on their way to becoming fat fucks now. But I'll never forget how it felt to be a monster for those 8 weeks or so.. good times! "We'll always have Paris," as the saying goes

 

[Bubba po]

Came here for the microphone chat.

Was disappoint.

Waiting for my pair of Rode NT-1A's to arrive in the post.

 

[Bubba po]

That sounds like something I would say. I knew there was a reason I liked you.

I don't like, trust, or respect people who don't have an ironic and acerbic sense of humour.

There goes the 'u' again!

 

[NotThatBright]

Came here for the microphone chat.

Was disappoint.

Waiting for my pair of Rode NT-1A's to arrive in the post.

That's my fault. I started ranting about ESPN and that led to all kinds of stuff. My overheads haven't come in the mail yet, but I did get a couple new mics in for my 18" tom and my snare... I made a very quick recording earlier to test the differences. Had to be very quick or the cops would have been beating me with a flashlight 5 minutes afterwards.

On this recording I have a few quick hits with my old mic, then with my new mic. Don't blink or you'll miss it. Same mic placements. I put the same EQ settings on both that I have always used for these drums, then put them through the same mastering procedure I have saved and always used. There is no overhead mic in this recording... the only ones turned on were for the two drums.

First- 18" tom- CAD D10 mic, then Audix D4. I was expecting primarily more attack with the new mic... I think I got it.

Next- snare- CAD SN 210, then Audix i5. New one sounds a little higher & cleaner? I think?

https://soundcloud.com/user92696274096/song-0054/s-zzbnJ

 

[Bubba po]

That's my fault. I started ranting about ESPN and that led to all kinds of stuff. My overheads haven't come in the mail yet, but I did get a couple new mics in for my 18" tom and my snare... I made a very quick recording earlier to test the differences. Had to be very quick or the cops would have been beating me with a flashlight 5 minutes afterwards.

On this recording I have a few quick hits with my old mic, then with my new mic. Don't blink or you'll miss it. Same mic placements. I put the same EQ settings on both that I have always used for these drums, then put them through the same mastering procedure I have saved and always used. There is no overhead mic in this recording... the only ones turned on were for the two drums.

First- 18" tom- CAD D10 mic, then Audix D4. I was expecting primarily more attack with the new mic... I think I got it.

Next- snare- CAD SN 210, then Audix i5. New one sounds a little higher & cleaner? I think?

https://soundcloud.com/user92696274096/song-0054/s-zzbnJ

Yes, there's an improvement with both mics. I think you have your 18" tom tuned too high, though.

 

[Greg_L]

That's interesting... I think you're right about LBs needing to be quicker to stop passing more than running, since the freaking owners have done everything they can to make pass coverage and QB pressure illegal. One thing I can't agree with is that he just did juice to recover from injury. I NEVER believe anyone who says that's why they do it. I'll get more personal than I need to to explain why. This was 16 years ago.. Here we go:

I was always muscular and strong, but very lean... told I look like a wrestler (a real wrestler, like the sport). Could not put on a pound to save my life, regardless of diet or exercise. I didn't care that much... I lifted two or three times a week as a matter of habit and didn't play football in high school, so I didn't need to be big for any good reason. Anyway, when I was in college, a lot of my friends from HS were doing juice- a couple were football players, several weren't . Eventually I told my one friend who was getting it for everyone, "what the hell, get me a cycle of something that will let me get stronger and not just feel like I'm wasting time at the gym." I wasn't going to class, so I had to do something. He gets me 10 CCs of testosterone and 70 D-bol pills and explained how to spread it out over 8 weeks. And so...

A week into it I started gaining a pound a day. It was mostly water and made my face and bloated and stupid-looking, but every day at the gym the increase in strength and endurance was incredible. It was unbelievable. You are right about how people can fuck up tendons by lifting more than the tendons can handle when you're on that stuff. I was careful not to do so, but I saw friends do it. I was laughing at how huge I was getting.

When I went off them 8 weeks later, it all started to go away... the water retention (thankfully) and the extra muscle.

My point is that the only reason I never took them again is that I didn't really care to begin with about getting big... I more or less did it for something to do, and everyone else seemed to be having a good time. Athletes who feel they have something to gain by it... when they do it once, which I suspect 97% of them have... there is no way in hell they are going to stop if there is any way they feel they can get away with it. They work too well. If they see their buddy doing it, they're going to try it themselves. I sure as hell don't believe the baseball players who say they only did it once. With that kind of money at stake? They did it until it became outlawed in baseball, AND they felt that there was a good chance of getting caught. I bet the Boz was on from late in high school. Just a feeling I have.

By the way, now that I'm in my mid-30s, I'm happy as hell to have this body type. I'm as strong and lean as when I was 21. All the guys who could put on weight that I grew up with are on their way to becoming fat fucks now. But I'll never forget how it felt to be a monster for those 8 weeks or so.. good times! "We'll always have Paris," as the saying goes

Lol. Cool story, bro. How much ya bench?

 

[NotThatBright]

Yes, there's an improvement with both mics. I think you have your 18" tom tuned too high, though.

That damn thing has annoyed me since I got it. I tried several times but could never come up with what I thought was the right sound (both live and recorded) through trial and error, but I still like it over the 16" for a lot of songs. Here's its setup:

View attachment 90443

As you note the classiness of the cellar floor partially covered by arbitrary pieces of carpet and the mic stand resting atop an empty container of joint compound... you can see that I have the mic pretty close to the edge of the drum. The bottom of the mic is about 1.5 inches from the head of the drum.

I've tried different mic placements but I keep ending up just about at this one. Have you had luck with any particular mic placement? And if I tune down that 18", it would behoove me to dampen it some more, do you agree?

I know that I'm the master of my domain and everything and it's ultimately up to me, etc, but any opinions from those more versed in this than I would be swell.

I was able to do a longer sample of drum sounds with the old and new mics just before.

First- 18" tom- CAD D10 mic, then Audix D4.

Next- snare- CAD SN 210, then Audix i5.

Last- 16" tom- CAD D29, then Shure SM57

https://soundcloud.com/user92696274096/test/s-gb9kF

Thanks.

 

[Greg_L]

I would say it's over dampened. Built-in muffle ring and a moongel? Yikes. seems excessive to me. Let that baby breathe.

 

[NotThatBright]

Lol. Cool story, bro. How much ya bench?

Yeah, I really didn't need to get into all that, did I. Guess I was feeling nostalgic

Still think Boz was always a juicer.

I would say it's over dampened. Built-in muffle ring and a moongel? Yikes. seems excessive to me. Let that baby breathe.

What do you have on yours? This rings for probably a good 2 seconds after I hit it, even with all the crap I have on it. What's "normal" for rock music, in your opinion?

 

[Greg_L]

Yeah, I really didn't need to get into all that, did I. Guess I was feeling nostalgic

Still think Boz was always a juicer.

I'm sure he did. I'm just saying I believe him that it probably started with recovery.

What do you have on yours? This rings for probably a good 2 seconds after I hit it, even with all the crap I have on it. What's "normal" for rock music, in your opinion?

I use 2-ply heads and one moongel at most. Usually nothing at all. I tune my toms for the "doppler sound". Tune the bottom head a little tighter than the top and you get this musical pitch bending effect that sustains then dies out without ringing all over the place. I think it's very nice. Some ring and boom in the toms helps them cut through a mix and it sounds good. The ringing most people try to kill is exactly what makes a tom sound good in a full mix.

IMO, just my opinion, that drum is tuned too tight and it's too muffled. It's an 18" floor tom. That thing should sound damn near almost like a kick drum.