How important is subject matter in songs ?

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barry c said:
No I hear alot of ARTISTS say they arent really sure what their lyrics are about. I dont hear songwriters saying that.
Artists have record contracts, they already have fans, they have already made it, call their own shots, and can basicly write whatever they want to. They have much more flexibility in what they write. People were attracted to them for their sound, or their stage presence whatever, maybe lyrics werent important to that particular band

if you are a songwriter who doesnt perform his or her own songs, you are relying on your songs alone, not your guitar, not your band, not your voice, not your production team, it's you and your song, you better have command of your craft. You will submit songs to publishers and people who want to find somebody to record them, and they will analyze the song for anything they think might turn the artist off.

You can lol at craft all you like, if you are the only person every going to hear the songs you write, craft does not matter anyway.

I just dont understand when you sit and write a song, you expect it to just come out? Cause any other way, involves craft.

All it is is taking your ideas and "crafting" them into a song. Its not some mysterious word, it's just the elbow grease you put into a song.
Click to expand...

Furthermore even if an artist doesnt really know what his song is about, the songs are often still well written. well written doesnt have to mean it's meaningful, but it's still engaging and strikes curiosity.
 
barry c said:
No I hear alot of ARTISTS say they arent really sure what their lyrics are about. I dont hear songwriters saying that.
Artists have record contracts, they already have fans, they have already made it, call their own shots, and can basicly write whatever they want to. They have much more flexibility in what they write. People were attracted to them for their sound, or their stage presence whatever, maybe lyrics werent important to that particular band

if you are a songwriter who doesnt perform his or her own songs, you are relying on your songs alone, not your guitar, not your band, not your voice, not your production team, it's you and your song, you better have command of your craft. You will submit songs to publishers and people who want to find somebody to record them, and they will analyze the song for anything they think might turn the artist off.

You can lol at craft all you like, if you are the only person every going to hear the songs you write, craft does not matter anyway.

I just dont understand when you sit and write a song, you expect it to just come out? Cause any other way, involves craft.

All it is is taking your ideas and "crafting" them into a song. Its not some mysterious word, it's just the elbow grease you put into a song.
Click to expand...


I think you bring up good points and I would say you're coming from it in a practical point. One may want to write songs others may want to record, where I think many here (and maybe wrongly) never approach their songs that way. But, and I think there is some fact in the statement, if you want to be a "song writer" there are certain steps that improve your odds of getting picked up by someone.

On the other hand, if that is not the objective, then the "craft" approach is actually a negative. I would have a hard time letting someone else record my stuff (I said hard, not impossible).
 
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Here is another.

The Recording Project :: View topic - By the Way revisited

By the Way

WHEN I WAS YOUNG SONGS THAT WERE SUNG
WERE FROM THE HEART AND LIFE SEEMED TO HAVE SOME MEANING
THERE WAS MAGIC IN THE AIR, INSPIRATION EVERYWHERE
ALL THE TIME

ALL I EVER WANTED WAS TO BE WITH YOU
YOUR GUIDING LIGHT AND MYSTERY TO SEE ME THROUGH
BUT YOU ONLY TOOK ME AS FAR AS YOU WANTED TO
THEN YOU LEFT ME ALL ALONE SAD AND BLUE

YOU NEVER KNEW WHAT YOU MEANT TO ME
YOU WERE THE ONLY THING THAT I COULD SEE
WHEN YOU LEFT YOU TOOK MY LOVE WITH YOU
THERE WAS NOTHING THAT I COULD DO
FOR YOU

WE BOTH WENT ON OUR SEPRATE WAYS
AND EVER SINCE THAT LONELY DAY
IT HAS NEVER BEEN THE SAME
I BUILT A WALL TO SHELTER ME
FROM ALL OF LIFES SWEET ECSTACY
AND I CANT GO BACK

ALL I EVER WANTED WAS TO BE WITH YOU
YOUR GUIDING LIGHT AND MYSTERY TO SEE ME THROUGH
BUT YOU ONLY TOOK ME AS FAR AS YOU WANTED TO
THEN YOU LEFT ME ALL ALONE SAD AND BLUE

YOU COULDN'T KNOW WHAT WOULD BECOME OF ME
I WAS LOST WHEN I COULDN'T BE
FOUND IN YOUR SHADOW BY YOUR SIDE
I THOUGHT RIGHT THEN THAT I WOULD SURELY DIE

SO MUCH TIME HAS NOW GONE BY
YET NO MATTER HOW I TRY
I CAN'T LET GO
THAT FEELING THAT WAS YESTERDAY
HAS LONG SINCE FALLEN BY THE WAY
PLEASE SET ME FREE

ALL I EVER WANTED WAS TO BE WITH YOU
YOUR GUIDING LIGHT AND MYSTERY TO SEE ME THROUGH
BUT YOU ONLY TOOK ME AS FAR AS YOU WANTED TO
THEN YOU LEFT ME ALL ALONE SAD AND BLUE

NOW NOTHING CAN EVER BE THE SAME
LOVE HAS DIED SINCE COME THAT DAY
TIME STANDS STILL AND THE MUSICS STOPPED
YOU KEEP GOING AND I CAN'T START
TO ESCAPE A PRISON OF MY OWN DESIGN
TO FREE THE VISION IN MY MIND
OF THE BEAUTY THAT ONCE WAS YOU
AND THE LOVE THAT I ONCE KNEW

ALL I EVER WANTED WAS TO BE WITH YOU
BUT YOU LEFT ME ALL ALONE SAD AND BLUE

NOW THE MEMORY IS ALL BUT GONE
WHAT ONCE WAS RIGHT, NOW IS WRONG
ALL MY WORLD IS UPSIDE DOWN
I AM LOST BUT I CAN BE FOUND
CHASING THE PHANTOM THAT ONCE WAS YOU
NEVER KNOWING WHATS REALLY TRUE
MY YOUTH IS SPENT THE MAGICS GONE
SOMEONE TELL ME
WHERE I WENT WRONG
_________________
 
I must say that now these tunes that I have posted have new vocal tracks with harmonies and keyboards added. They have been remixed and the CD is getting ready to come out. They are much better sounding now then they are here.
 
DM60 said:
I think you bring up good points and I would say you're coming from it in a practical point. One may want to write songs others may want to record, where I think many here (and maybe wrongly) never approach their songs that way. But, and I think there is some fact in the statement, if you want to be a "song writer" there are certain steps that improve your odds of getting picked up by someone.

On the other hand, if that is not the objective, then the "craft" approach is actually a negative. I would have a hard time letting someone else record my stuff (I said hard, not impossible).
Click to expand...


I just think for me, i know im not the most talented singer or musician in the world, or even in my city, i have to do alot of things right to have any success, thats where i try to help myself by writing good songs. Im never gonna be a crazy front man, im never going to whip 50,000 people into a frenzie by jumping around, im going to have to do it someway else.
 
barry c said:
No I hear alot of ARTISTS say they arent really sure what their lyrics are about. I dont hear songwriters saying that.
Artists have record contracts, they already have fans, they have already made it, call their own shots, and can basicly write whatever they want to. They have much more flexibility in what they write. People were attracted to them for their sound, or their stage presence whatever, maybe lyrics werent important to that particular band

if you are a songwriter who doesnt perform his or her own songs, you are relying on your songs alone, not your guitar, not your band, not your voice, not your production team, it's you and your song, you better have command of your craft. You will submit songs to publishers and people who want to find somebody to record them, and they will analyze the song for anything they think might turn the artist off.

You can lol at craft all you like, if you are the only person every going to hear the songs you write, craft does not matter anyway.

I just dont understand when you sit and write a song, you expect it to just come out? Cause any other way, involves craft.

All it is is taking your ideas and "crafting" them into a song. Its not some mysterious word, it's just the elbow grease you put into a song.
Click to expand...

Yeh it's just semantics man. I'm not nit picking about it. Maybe some poets or songwriters would be super offended to hear I got their meaning wrong. I'd share my ideas and let them know what I thought. if they said i got the meaning wrong and I was crap for it, I'd probably take an immediate dislike to them.

Presumably we agree songwriting and writing music are both arts & crafts. To me an art or craft is something some people feel the need to partake in because they find it satisfying to convey a thought in a particular method that is considered different to doing things in a very basic way. The only thing that defines it as an art or craft, is that not everyone can do it. It's set apart from rudimentary tasks like brushing your teeth or doing the dishes. But only barely. Everyone knows this.
 
fritsthegirl said:
Yeh it's just semantics man. I'm not nit picking about it. Maybe some poets or songwriters would be super offended to hear I got their meaning wrong. I'd share my ideas and let them know what I thought. if they said i got the meaning wrong and I was crap for it, I'd probably take an immediate dislike to them.

Presumably we agree songwriting and writing music are both arts & crafts. To me an art or craft is something some people feel the need to partake in because they find it satisfying to convey a thought in a particular method that is considered different to doing things in a very basic way. The only thing that defines it as an art or craft, is that not everyone can do it. It's set apart from rudimentary tasks like brushing your teeth or doing the dishes. But only barely. Everyone knows this.
Click to expand...

Just saying, if you have ever written a song, and changed a few words, or changed a chord, you are exercising your inner craft. You may not be conscious of it, but you are. Imagine then learning as much as you can about what makes something work and doesnt, all the more options you have, when making those changes.
 
barry c said:
Whatever your meaning, your lyrics are still to vague to convey any message, words are just words, images are images. Still dont know how the mother "felt" all you said was it was the hardest thing to do. Which what is the hardest thing to do? Nobody has one, or knows what it really means, we get the idea, the cliche used, but thats not good writing, it's boring.
Click to expand...

she choked back her tears and said goodbye to her son? Sending her son off to war was the hardest thing she had ever done? I don't get it, are you dense or something? Can you fill in the blanks? Do you have to have everything spelled out to you? Not to be condescending, but, I just don't get it. At first you got the message and told me what the song was about. Then when I told you you didn't get the message and what the song was really about, it became vague. Of course it is vague, thats the way I like it. I rarely write in first person, that is not a songwriter, that is a biographer. I usually write gender neutral, so YOU, and make it what you want. I usually do not spell it out so YOU can relate to it anyway you like. I see though that you cannot relate to this tune at all so, shall we move on?
 
dragonworks said:
she choked back her tears and said goodbye to her son? Sending her son off to war was the hardest thing she had ever done? I don't get it, are you dense or something? Can you fill in the blanks? Do you have to have everything spelled out to you? Not to be condescending, but, I just don't get it. At first you got the message and told me what the song was about. Then when I told you you didn't get the message and what the song was really about, it became vague. Of course it is vague, thats the way I like it. I rarely write in first person, that is not a songwriter, that is a biographer. I usually write gender neutral, so YOU, and make it what you want. I usually do not spell it out so YOU can relate to it anyway you like. I see though that you cannot relate to this tune at all so, shall we move on?
Click to expand...
:eatpopcorn:
 
dragonworks said:
she choked back her tears and said goodbye to her son? Sending her son off to war was the hardest thing she had ever done? I don't get it, are you dense or something? Can you fill in the blanks? Do you have to have everything spelled out to you? Not to be condescending, but, I just don't get it. At first you got the message and told me what the song was about. Then when I told you you didn't get the message and what the song was really about, it became vague. Of course it is vague, thats the way I like it. I rarely write in first person, that is not a songwriter, that is a biographer. I usually write gender neutral, so YOU, and make it what you want. I usually do not spell it out so YOU can relate to it anyway you like. I see though that you cannot relate to this tune at all so, shall we move on?
Click to expand...

If thats the way you like it, thats fine. Im telling you from somebody who writes a new song almost every day of the year, that it;s not good writing. I said I got it, I understood what you said, that doesnt make it well written.

"it was the hardest thing to do" WEAK.

Do what you want with the advice, Im trying to push you to get better, if you think it;s great, that's all that matters
 
Greg_L said:
:laughings: :laughings:
Click to expand...

Today, we will examine Gregor the Terror's classic "Walmart at Midnight"

Now, as stupid as this song is (which the entire genre is like that) the song is not badly written. I can see all the images
of the people working at wallmart, I can concur with it, I think it happens any late shift, even people working at mcdonalds at 2 am are on the stranger side, I dont think it's a nice song, but it at least does the job of saying something.

Personally I think he got lucky with this one, because he didnt have to visualize it, it kind of is just there, and told as a joke, but instead of writing
the sky is blue and my cloudy days are ahead, this tells me something. I could easily see this song being used in a movie where walmart was shown

a midget greets you at the door
a bearded lady sweepin the floor
the cashier weights 500 pounds

(who?) is replacin the stock
the one armed girl is foldin the socks
the albino guard is doin his rounds

We're goin to walmart at midnight
walmart at midnight
it's a fright come one come all
We're goin to walmart at midnight
walmart at midnight
it's a fright but you'll have a ball
 
and notice his use of the rhymes, first two at the end of each line, and the third one rhytimg at the end of the stanza, it has
a chorus with the hook right on the top of the chorus.

And he lols @ craft, he KNOWS craft. What a jerk
 
Congratulations Greg! You've made it to the top. You've been critiqued by the Master!
 
Where he could have improved on it, is having a conclusion, some payoff, some reason for the writer to be telling the story, other
than just to get a laugh. If he had command of his craft, he might be able to do it, i could do it in 2 minutes
 
Greg, please allow me to save you a few key strokes- LOL@craft. Sorry if I stepped on your toes.
 
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