Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
my earliest response stands ....... in music everything is a matter of personal taste and preferences.
BroKen_H
Re-member
Henry the Eighth...second verse, same as the first. No great lyrical craftsmanship there, but the song is still sung today. Fifty years and going strong. It's just catchy.
You hear it, you remember it, you sing it yourself. That's what makes popular music. Not necessarily good music, but popular.
I've noticed a lot of songs today have so many tracks and overdubs, it makes it sound like you need a master's in classical music to write the stuff, but...reread the second paragraph.
You hear it, you remember it, you sing it yourself. That's what makes popular music. Not necessarily good music, but popular.
I've noticed a lot of songs today have so many tracks and overdubs, it makes it sound like you need a master's in classical music to write the stuff, but...reread the second paragraph.
R
ronhar
New member
One more time...
I gotta agree with Bob. And Greg sees the point. Grim, why ask these introspective questions and give Barry a place to rant?
Actually, as a kid I attended an old fashioned country church that on occasion was visited by an old man that asked to sing his favorite hymn. His voice was horrible, the song a classic full of meaning. My mother summed it up when she stated "He sure can't sing but I love to hear him!"
I gotta agree with Bob. And Greg sees the point. Grim, why ask these introspective questions and give Barry a place to rant?
Actually, as a kid I attended an old fashioned country church that on occasion was visited by an old man that asked to sing his favorite hymn. His voice was horrible, the song a classic full of meaning. My mother summed it up when she stated "He sure can't sing but I love to hear him!"
J
Johnny Don't!
New member
In my mind, the subject matter only is relevant to the singer, such that he or she can use his/her voice to emotionally express the meaning behind the lyric. Many lyrics are misunderstood and that's not necessarily a bad thing in that it allows the listener to form a bond with whatever he/she is hearing. A good example is Seal; he never prints his lyrics because he doesn't want his audience to think his lyrics are anything beyond what they are hearing. I was a huge fan of his first album, and one of the last tracks has a lyric that goes
Now that I look at you in different light
A violet you they call; to me that's all right
But I know other fans of that album that swear up and down the second line is "A violet unicorn; to me that's all right.." And Seal himself won't say what it is either way.
Now that I look at you in different light
A violet you they call; to me that's all right
But I know other fans of that album that swear up and down the second line is "A violet unicorn; to me that's all right.." And Seal himself won't say what it is either way.
fat_fleet
Swollen Member
I like that approach.
With my stuff I always figured if someone thinks I'm saying something cool the last thing I wanna do is correct them.
J
Johnny Don't!
New member
Exactly.
X
xcracer
New member
Pick a few of the most popular songs out there right now. Check out the lyrics. There is your answer. How popular do you want to be? Simple sells. Complex not so much. Does a deep meaningful song sell millions compared to a simple repetitive "dumbed down 1"?
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
See, I had the opposite approach. In a church I was once part of, some people had the view "it doesn't matter whether they can sing, God hears their heart and loves them for it" to which I'd reply "Well, he's God. He has the ability to tune out that racket and hear the heart. I don't; I hear that awful singing !!"
For the same reason I like to get friends to improvise solos on some of my songs if they can; another perspective that I wouldn't have thought of.
And any millions of interested parties. I'm fascinated by the subject matter of and stories behind the lyrics in songs. If I haven't got a clue what they're about, I just dig 'em anyway.
Charles Manson and the entire hippie counterculture would doubtless agree with you there !
What does that actually mean ?
But you might be without realizing it. Saying something cool, that is.
They certainly used to.
But you know, a lot of this is dependent on the skill of a lyricist. Some song lyrics can sound trite and simplistic and be part of an ever so catchy tune, yet be pregnant with deep meaning. Or if not deep meaning, certainly depth that isn't initially apparent.
P
pjroadrunner
New member
I don't think it really matters, as long as it evokes an emotion of some kind. Some songs tell a story and thats great, some are more poetic and may have no real meaning or some can be down right vague, but as long as it creates joy, sadness, reflexion, to me, that is what is important.
B
barry c
Banned
Yeah I have said over and over, and over again that there are plenty of songs like this, and they can be fun, people can like them,
they can become hits, but nobody, anywhere is going to call it great songwriting. Just because something is a hit doesnt make it
great songwriting.
B
barry c
Banned
Remember, a lyric can be great and not mean a damn thing also, a lyric can be bad and mean the world.
Great and not meaning a thing= Stairway to Heaven, bad and meaning alot, All you need is love
B
barry c
Banned
Your earlier OPINION stands?
B
barry c
Banned
I gotta agree with Bob. And Greg sees the point. Grim, why ask these introspective questions and give Barry a place to rant?
Actually, as a kid I attended an old fashioned country church that on occasion was visited by an old man that asked to sing his favorite hymn. His voice was horrible, the song a classic full of meaning. My mother summed it up when she stated "He sure can't sing but I love to hear him!"
Cause perhaps grim sees value in all responses, he doesnt think you and Greg are experts on what makes a song great. Why is it a rant when somebody doesnt agree with you? You are basicly saying that because you dont see any difference between Surfin Bird and Eleanor Rigby
that it means that people who know more, dont.
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
yes, that's what I said ....
B
barry c
Banned
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
it's unnecessarily insulting to imply that you know more than they do first and don't bother with the protestations ... we all know what you mean.
Fact is ....... you have no such authority to make the declarations you make. You're not more knowledgeable or experienced than at least
some of us here.
You're snotty about how you choose to present things to others and closed minded to anything at all that anyone else says.
And you continue to not answer questions about the definitions of 'good songwriting' and 'well-crafted' that you seem to claim to possess.
Meanwhile people make reasoned and polite descriptions of what they feel constitutes good songwriting and you insult them and please, the fact that you could be more insulting if you choose does not negate the fact that you're being insulting to people who have given you no offense.
You're trolling for people to insult ........ nice.
B
barry c
Banned
it's unnecessarily insulting to imply that you know more than they do first and don't bother with the protestations ... we all know what you mean.
Fact is ....... you have no such authority to make the declarations you make. You're not more knowledgeable or experienced than at least
some of us here.
You're snotty about how you choose to present things to others and closed minded to anything at all that anyone else says.
And you continue to not answer questions about the definitions of 'good songwriting' and 'well-crafted' that you seem to claim to possess.
Meanwhile people make reasoned and polite descriptions of what they feel constitutes good songwriting and you insult them and please, the fact that you could be more insulting if you choose does not negate the fact that you're being insulting to people who have given you no offense.
You're trolling for people to insult ........ nice.
No Im not trolling, Greg has one answer, surfin bird, because people like that song, he thinks it means that the song is a great song, it's a great SURF song. It's not going to be put into the great American songbook, and I didnt write the great American songbook.
I have learned a lot about songwriting over the years, I know that these simplistic answers are wrong, it leads to people thinking they cant learn and cant improve, they just write something and roll the dice
B
barry c
Banned
No it's a great song anyway, but will be harder to recognize. The lyrics are still there but the melody is off. Only when when a good enough singer sings two different songs can you easily hear the difference between the good and bad song.
Hard to anaylze a Bob Dylan song, his style allows him to write a song like that, but if you wrote it, and tried to pitch it to a publisher
in hopes somebody would record it, they would most likely say WTF is that? It's unlike most songs you hear on the radio.
And I havent heard a cover that matched Dylans voice on that recording. The song and tracks are still good, but his is just about as good as it gets for that particular song. Somethings cant be explained. LOVE the song though
G
Greg_L
Banned
You are flat out wrong about me. You know why? Because since long before this thread, since before you and your ten banned troll accounts got here, I've said that popular opinion doesn't mean shit towards a song being good or not. You're arguing things you don't understand. You've got your "opponents" figured all wrong. That's why you are not to be taken seriously.
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barry c
Banned
You keep saying that there is no good or bad songs, just likes or dislikes. When I disagree with that, im supposedly trolling. Your answers on this topic would dispute your claim that IIIIII dont know what Im talking about. Thats pretty good though!