Gear Shootout: You be the judge

  • Thread starter Thread starter Giganova
  • Start date Start date

Can you hear a difference?

  • What difference? No.

    Votes: 4 33.3%

  • Subtle, but audible.

    Votes: 6 50.0%

  • Hell yeah, the new setup sounds sweeeet!

    Votes: 2 16.7%

  • You need new converts for a zillion dollers first to hear differences (yeah, sure)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    12
Giganova

Giganova

gimmi your mic!
RME 9363 + Allen & Heath 16:2DX + Alesis AI3 ($1,800)
vs Roland VM3100 ($300)

Allen & Heath + RME + Converters
VM3100 digital mixer


Over the past few years I've used a Roland VM3100Pro 8-ch digital mixer with an RPC-1 sound card. The sound is actually pretty good, but I always felt that the signal could be clearer and crispier. What also let me look into new gear is the fact that the pres and EQ on the VM3100 are essentially useless (very noisy).

So I ended up buying an RME 9363 Lightpipe card, an Allen & Heath 16:2 Mixwizard and Alesis AI3 converters.

Next I did a comparison by recording the same demo song off one of my sythesizers, once with the Roland VM3100 and once with the new Allen & Heath + RME + converter chain. Settings are identical with same levels, all done at 24/44.1, downdithered to 16/44.1 in Logic. No EQ/PRE on the mixer, just the direct outs.

The bottom line: I can hardly hear any difference at all! Can you? The only difference I notice is that the lower frequencies sound slightly better with the new setup. With the old VM3100Pro the basses sound kinda boomy & boxy; with the new setup the basses are clearer & crispier. Apart from that I can hardly hear any difference at all, which surprises me. Am I deaf?

The story would be different if i had recorded many channels at once, I guess (so effects and noise can add up, plus different summing circuitry, etc), and if I had used EQ or on-board pres, coz that's where the Allen & Heath really shines: one of the cleanest pres and finest sounding EQ I've ever heard (which I didn't use during the test). Don't get me started talking about the Roland VM3100 pres: noisy & dirty, virtually useless.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disappointed because overall the new setup sounds just FANTASTIC. But I would have expected to hear a more noticable difference. In the future I will be hard pressed to believe ANY of the "high-end" hype here and on other boards (except for mics and pres). :p Differences in mixer/sound cards seem to be very subtle, and a major investment has to be carefully judged if it really improves the sound enough to justify that investment.

So, was it worth investing $1,800 in a new setup? Hell yeah, even though nobody will ever hear it, at least I can say that I have highend gear (oh boy). :rolleyes: On a more serious note: I think the new gear gave me a lot of peace of mind since I know I did everything I could with my limited budget and there's no need to "upgrade" for the next few years (decades, human life spans). And I have more channels and nice sounding onboard pres and EQs.

Anyway, give it a shot, listen to the two tracks (16/44.1 WAV files) and let me know what you think, ok?

Cheers,
Gig
 
The Roland sample plays just slightly louder this end, which makes judgement a little difficult. And synthesiser music probably isn't the best way to judge subtle differences but from what I can discern, A&H sample is sliiightly clearer in the upper mids and treble region, i.e., a wee bit less aggressive, a little less grain, which actually sounds a little less 'impressive' (to my ears) for this kind of music, but 'sonically' the A&H recording is 'sweeter.'

Very little difference unless you reeaally listen though. Things would probably start sounding different as tracks got stacked up, as you pointed out.

Someone should start a thread with some blind A/B testing, so the 'golden eared' among us can offer their opinions.

Oh, but then there's the whole MP3 sound quality issue...I forgot about that.
 
oooooh i decided to listen on a pair of headphones using windows media player. the vm3100 had more attack/bite in the highs and distorted a tad bit in the lows. the more expensive one was smoother all the way around but a bit quieter. but i could turn that one up without having to move my headphones away from my ears. i think it was a good chioce....I'd like to hear some other selections to further test that
 
Well, I managed to do it blind and I think the new setup sounds better. As said before a synth probably won't show it as much as vocal or acoustic instruments. Congrats on the new stuff.



PS This is my 1000th post, not including the Cave of course! :D
 
Using the stock sound card on my work computer and one sided ear buds(like the ones you get on a plane or w/Ipod) they sound pretty much identical to me when level matched as close as possible. So take that FWIW, probably nothing...
 
I agree the Roland pres are terrible and the routing on that mixer is complicated and the connectors are cheap etc. But the PCI card had Lynx chips on it so maybe it's not that bad for the price after all.
 
SBax said:
... the PCI card had Lynx chips on it so maybe it's not that bad for the price after all.
Click to expand...
I had no idea! That's interesting.

Its been a while since I posted this thread (and my initial disappointment). I have to say now that using more channels and more challenging/interesting sound sources, there is a clear difference in sound. I'm very happy with my new setup.
 
There is a smoother pro quality to the first one. It was richer sounding with deeper delay. The second one sounds like it was recorded on less expensive preamps, ie. harsh sounding, very narrow bandwidth to the sound.
 
Took a few tries to really pick out the difference but definitely smoother top end on the new setup. Not a shocking difference but it's there.
 
Last edited:
I need to make a correction here. I just installed a new CPU fan in my computer and took out the Roland R-Bus PCI card. The chips on it said HiLinx not Lynx.
 
Giganova said:
...more challenging/interesting sound sources, there is a clear difference in sound...
Click to expand...

Hey, GN, with which sources do you perceive the biggest differences?
 
I didn't really do a more careful test at this stage, so I won't be able to say which sources make the biggest difference.
 
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