For those with vintage instruments...Do you play them?

[A Reel Person]

Don't get carried away with yourselves.

1) I never said under glass or museum piece.

2) There's no abolute truth that the guy with the job can't be a collector and "real" player too, or that the "real" players can't afford fine instruments.

3) Just because monty has a Mexican Strat, it does not make other Mexican Strats harder to get or more valuable. Anything that's truly collectible, is way out of all our league anyway. None of us on this board are bidding on George Harrison's or John Lennon's guitar, or considering anything that's truly collectible. We're going to the Guitar Center and buying a "production" (i.e., mass produced) instrument. As finer instruments go, the next fine PRS is just as far away as your pocketbook or Visa card.

4) There is no direct impact to "real" players, (whatever that means), that someone might choose to "collect" guitars. None.

All this holier than thou "I'm above collecting I'm gonna play my guitar" is a lot of posturing. I'm above just collecting guitars, too. I'm a "real" player. I'm gonna play a different guitar every day of the week, if I want, and different ones the following week.

 

[Outlaws]

This whole thing with guitars being collected and stored is bothersome to many...including me to an extent...but I look at it the same way I do as the 2 or 3 Babe Ruth jersey's that are left.

If I had the money I would buy it and never let anyone else see it (without knowing that the person isn't a theif). But I would never wear it or play baseball in it.

But then if I had a business like Topps or Upperdeck, I might cut the thing into pieces and slip them into random packs of baseball cards to increase sales.


Now, I ask you...would you rather the collector keeps it behind glass and in the best possible condition? -or cut it up and sell everyone a little piece of it?

 

[Dethska]

I got a '65 maple Ludwig drumset I beat to hell before I realized what I had. Oh well, at least it got used.

Everybody knows the coolest vintage guitars are "lovingly abused." I mean the coolest guitar in the world is played by Willie Nelson. Every scratch and nick and ding tells a story.

I'd take a beat-up Strat over a pristine Martin anyday. Especially if that beat-up Strat got that way because Jimi hit his Marshall with it.

 

[jfrog]

I'm above just collecting guitars, too.

I just got my bank statement. I'm way below collecting guitars.

 

[Tadpui]

What good is a guitar if you can't play it?

 

[A Reel Person]

It'd be nothing more than a fancy piece of wood.

................

Actually, if monty has a Mexican Strat, it makes all other Mexican Strat's that much more valuable, and the fine guitar I bought this week literally took it out of Outlaw's hands.

 

[steve350]

I gig with all of these:

63 Hofner Bass (play at home not in band)
63 Rickenbacker 325
63 Gretsch Tennessean
61 Strat
57 Les Paul
63 Rickenbacker 360/12


I use a couple of A/B boxes at gigs as you can imagine.

 

[A Reel Person]

I'd like to cut up yo'ass and sell everybody a piece of it!!

..................

 

[philboyd studge]

Serious collectors do provide a service in that they can increase the value of an average collection like mine of 30 instruments or so. I've always bought low and sold higher and played 'em in between.

It's the stolen ones that hurt so once again, a list in case anybody sees these puppies floating around:
1964 Fender Duo-Sonic no serial # (the neck would have one), white, hsc, ex.
1966 Fender Jazzmaster #153900 sunburst, hsc, mint
1964 Gibson B-45 12string #143671, natural, hsc, (I’d kill to get this back)
1928 Gibson Banjo uke ‘The Gibson’, ssc, mint.
1964 Gibson J-45, #132120 sunburst, hsc, ex cond.
1945 Gibson L-5, #98534, sunburst, Johnny Smith pickup, hsc, mint (I’d really kill to get this back)
1954 Gibson L-50 #1742-14, sunburst, hsc, VGC
1968 Gibson RB-250 Mastertone banjo, hsc, ex.
1964 Gibson C-0 Classical # 187899, hsc, ex.
1961 Guild CE-100 Capri, #28468, hsc, ex.
1974 Perez , dreadnaught, #4 (custom, he’s the guy that made the acoustic instruments for Los Lobos) hsc, ex.

 

[jimistone]

I got a '65 maple Ludwig drumset I beat to hell before I realized what I had. Oh well, at least it got used.

Everybody knows the coolest vintage guitars are "lovingly abused." I mean the coolest guitar in the world is played by Willie Nelson. Every scratch and nick and ding tells a story.

I'd take a beat-up Strat over a pristine Martin anyday. Especially if that beat-up Strat got that way because Jimi hit his Marshall with it.

I have a dinged up one that I hit my marshall with...make me an offer!

 

[lpdeluxe]

There is a different perspective. I assume we're talking about "real" instruments here (all posturing aside): not an Eric Clapton axe you bought for half a mil, or anything like that.

For what it's worth, check out http://www.vintageguitar.com/ I haven't been there for a while, but it's instructive to read about the guys with the opposite point of view: i.e., that guitars are FOR collectors, and you gotta keep 'em out of the hands of those musicians, who will =gasp= play 'em! There's a book out called "'Burst (1958-60 Sunburst Les Paul)", by Jay Scott and Vic Da Pra. It doesn't take long to figure out that they are not into music, but rather into obsessive-compulsive behavior. Every detail of an LP is dissected, analyzed, and lovingly rated. It's like guitar pornography, frankly. I don't think I'm being "holier than thou" when I say, I could never worship a material object the way they seem to. As a side issue, the collectors have driven up the prices of the sunburst LPs beyond all reason, which, again, takes them out of the hands of players...I guess. My own opinion is that LP Standards are highly overrated as musical devices, but that's just me. But of course it's not about the musical value of the LP. It's about whether one has the "right" flame or the "right" knobs or whatever. In that sense it might as well be a 1952 Mad Magazine, say, or a 1965 Corvette. The stuff we seem to be interested in, self-expression and music, is foreign to the collector.

A side issue is the snobbery: it's not just a '56 Strat, it's one that Jimi actually looked at backstage somewhere, or was thought to have looked at, or, if he didn't actually look at it, the one he did look at was one just like this, and I've got a letter from the previous owner to prove it! It's this tenuous contact with celebrity, and talent, that turns me off the most: it's as though the collector can't be bothered by trash like us, he only wants stuff from the Gods! That's not producing music, it's living a vicarious existence.

I suppose it's predictable enough that musicians would have a different perspective from the rest of the world on this subject, but that doesn't make us idiots or anything else. It makes us musicians, and I for one would rather play a dance hall than stand in line to gaze upon some artifact left over from someone else's life.

 

[foo]

. . . and I for one would rather play a dance hall than stand in line to gaze upon some artifact left over from someone else's life.

Ain't that the truth!

I have several really nice guitars - some are vintage and some are more recent. Every one is a great guitar.
I never set out to be a collector - my deal was I wanted one of everything (style-wise) so I could play any gig that came along.
The guitars I bought and traded for just happened to become the vintage icons they are now.

The only thing I nver got was a great jazzer - like Phil's '45 L-5 (Mr. Sandman, send me a dream!!!)
. . . and sadly I can't afford one now.

 

[jimistone]

If you look at the "playing or setting vintage guitars in the closet" from a logical standpoint, Its obvious that you should play them.

Heres why:

If you buy a vintage strat in pristine shape and its worth say $10,000, and the same guitar in "well worn" shape is going to be half value...so say $5000 for "well worn" (were just talking ballpark here)

Anyone who plays, should be able to make $200 on the weekend...lets just say you can only make $100 playing. If you try to just play the hell out of that vintage axe and play every weekend...thats $400 a month (thats $4800 in a year...the New Years gig should pay you an extra $200. So all said and done, you should make $5000 with the guitar. Now, after only one year of weekend giging, the guitar is not going to be "well worn", its going to be in "above average" condition. So you should be able to get $7500 for it.

So, now you have a really nice vintage strat, that you are playing all the time, worth $7500 AND $5000 in cash...you would have to have the value of your vintage strat go up $2500 in one year to get a better return on "setting it in the closet", and vintage guitar prices are coming down a bit now.

Fast forward to 5 years and the vintage strat is "well worn". You have a really nice NATURAL relic, worth $5000 (if vintage prices haven't appreciated) and $25,000 in cash. At that point the vintage strat would have to be worth $30,000 to get the same return. But the bottom line is this:
You wouldn't have had all those memories of every nick, scratch and worn place that was put on the guitar....THATS THE FUN PART!

 

[Outlaws]

If you look at the "playing or setting vintage guitars in the closet" from a logical standpoint, Its obvious that you should play them.

Heres why:

If you buy a vintage strat in pristine shape and its worth say $10,000, and the same guitar in "well worn" shape is going to be half value...so say $5000 for "well worn" (were just talking ballpark here)

Anyone who plays, should be able to make $200 on the weekend...lets just say you can only make $100 playing. If you try to just play the hell out of that vintage axe and play every weekend...thats $400 a month (thats $4800 in a year...the New Years gig should pay you an extra $200. So all said and done, you should make $5000 with the guitar. Now, after only one year of weekend giging, the guitar is not going to be "well worn", its going to be in "above average" condition. So you should be able to get $7500 for it.

So, now you have a really nice vintage strat, that you are playing all the time, worth $7500 AND $5000 in cash...you would have to have the value of your vintage strat go up $2500 in one year to get a better return on "setting it in the closet", and vintage guitar prices are coming down a bit now.

Fast forward to 5 years and the vintage strat is "well worn". You have a really nice NATURAL relic, worth $5000 (if vintage prices haven't appreciated) and $25,000 in cash. At that point the vintage strat would have to be worth $30,000 to get the same return. But the bottom line is this:
You wouldn't have had all those memories of every nick, scratch and worn place that was put on the guitar....THATS THE FUN PART!

Scenerio #2:

Man has very good day job and makes a ton of money every year. Man decides he wants instrument to sit in closet while another vintage instrument is his playing guitar.

Man no give a fuck what others think.



(plus in another 100 years Man believes item become o so more rare. Man think it increase in value exponentially. Man think great great grand children enjoy what very few will)

 

[philboyd studge]

Ain't that the truth!

I have several really nice guitars - some are vintage and some are more recent. Every one is a great guitar.
I never set out to be a collector - my deal was I wanted one of everything (style-wise) so I could play any gig that came along.
The guitars I bought and traded for just happened to become the vintage icons they are now.

The only thing I nver got was a great jazzer - like Phil's '45 L-5 (Mr. Sandman, send me a dream!!!)
. . . and sadly I can't afford one now.

My feelings exactly. That L-5 for example I couldn't afford then either, it was a trade straight across for a Martin D-12-28 with the agreement that if after a year we could trade back if we wished. I forget how I got that Martin but I'm sure I wiggled my way into that one too. Hell, there has to be some perks in this business.

A footnote on the L-5. I took it to gigs now and then till one night in Mammoth Lakes there was a 6.0 earthquake with us as the epicenter and nearly got flattened by a suspended speaker cabinet that came loose. I calmly put the L-5 back in it's case and never took it on a job again.

 

[juststartingout]

If you look at the "playing or setting vintage guitars in the closet" from a logical standpoint, Its obvious that you should play them.

Heres why:

If you buy a vintage strat in pristine shape and its worth say $10,000, and the same guitar in "well worn" shape is going to be half value...so say $5000 for "well worn" (were just talking ballpark here)

Anyone who plays, should be able to make $200 on the weekend...lets just say you can only make $100 playing. If you try to just play the hell out of that vintage axe and play every weekend...thats $400 a month (thats $4800 in a year...the New Years gig should pay you an extra $200. So all said and done, you should make $5000 with the guitar. Now, after only one year of weekend giging, the guitar is not going to be "well worn", its going to be in "above average" condition. So you should be able to get $7500 for it.

So, now you have a really nice vintage strat, that you are playing all the time, worth $7500 AND $5000 in cash...you would have to have the value of your vintage strat go up $2500 in one year to get a better return on "setting it in the closet", and vintage guitar prices are coming down a bit now.

Fast forward to 5 years and the vintage strat is "well worn". You have a really nice NATURAL relic, worth $5000 (if vintage prices haven't appreciated) and $25,000 in cash. At that point the vintage strat would have to be worth $30,000 to get the same return. But the bottom line is this:
You wouldn't have had all those memories of every nick, scratch and worn place that was put on the guitar....THATS THE FUN PART!

Lmao, what an optimous........ What about the loan you had to take out on the axe to get it originally. How about the beer that got spilled on it the third gig and made you replace the pots and switch (oops, not original vintage now). Or how about the 20 weekends that you didn't play.

I play my vintage stuff, but they will never be my main axe for gigging.

 

[Outlaws]

Lmao, what an optimous........ What about the loan you had to take out on the axe to get it originally. How about the beer that got spilled on it the third gig and made you replace the pots and switch (oops, not original vintage now). Or how about the 20 weekends that you didn't play.

I play my vintage stuff, but they will never be my main axe for gigging.

You forgot 4 hours per gig night of bar room smoke giving it that "true" vintage look.

 

[philboyd studge]

Scenerio #2:

Man has very good day job and makes a ton of money every year. Man decides he wants instrument to sit in closet while another vintage instrument is his playing guitar.

Man no give a fuck what others think.



(plus in another 100 years Man believes item become o so more rare. Man think it increase in value exponentially. Man think great great grand children enjoy what very few will)

I've known quite a few collectors over the years, a couple for instance who bought Martin D-76's on July 4th, 1976 just to do it right, but they'd all always let me play whatever they had. I did balk a little at playing Emory Gordy's Lloyd Loar F-5 mandolin, but played it anyway.

The thing is now is that some acoustics and electrics have gone through the roof and their prices are obscene and a little ding from the arm of a chair would knock thousands off it's value. Those aren't guitars I'd want to be around.

 

[juststartingout]

You forgot 4 hours per gig night of bar room smoke giving it that "true" vintage look.

You know, the other thing I forgot is that you can make the same money with a $300 mexi strat and still have the original 10K investment.

Besides that, it just doesn't make sense to me to gig with a work of art. Maybe 1 in 200 people will even be able to tell the difference between vintage and mexi made, so why risk it.

So to sum it up, a shector will get you laid just as fast as a 57 Lp will!!

 

[Buck62]

I have a 1980 G & L F100 hardtail with a very low serial number on it. It's the very first model of the first year that G & L was in business. The inside of the neck is hand-signed by Leo Fender, as he was the main designer of this guitar. The hardtails made up less than 10% of that first year production run of the F100, and only a small percentage of those hardtails were candy-apple red like mine, making it a pretty rare guitar. It's been my main axe since I bought it new in late 1980 and I don't think twice about gigging with it. This is one of my guitars that I will pass on to my sons, along with 3 or 4 others that I think are worth keeping.