Drum room help!

[pandamonk]

It's a cardioid snare mic.

It's not the mic............

I meant the high frequency boost. But also, supercardioid allows more bleed than cardioid, but obviously nothing like an omni or bi-directional mic. What do you think is the problem NL5?

 

[pandamonk]

Nice on the OH - I did the same thing here - I panned copies of the OH to either side and then phased one of them..

Hey, here a rookie question, " i just brought out all frequencies except 60-80Hz, and around 3-4kHz." how do you do that in para - can you send a pic of that or something... I always see reference to that for EQ, and I am not sure what to do...
Also, how did you remove the bleed manually on the toms?

Thanks again for all of your help

Here you go...

In audacity you can't delete parts of tracks... Also you wanna fade in and out each part of track so you don't get any glitches

 

[dwkman0117]

Here you go...

In audacity you can't delete parts of tracks... Also you wanna fade in and out each part of track so you don't get any glitches

That is very laborious to fade in and out on a track link that... but, I guess normally the toms aren't really that active.

Is the first pic showing how to use certain areas for the EQ? I can not see how that would work in Sonar.. but, I will take another look

 

[pandamonk]

That is very laborious to fade in and out on a track link that... but, I guess normally the toms aren't really that active.

Is the first pic showing how to use certain areas for the EQ? I can not see how that would work in Sonar.. but, I will take another look

That pic was taken of the para eq in audacity. I'm not sure how it'd look/be done in sonar. Why not just use a graphic, and take out all freqs but the ones shown?

And yes, it is very laborious...

 

[NL5]

I meant the high frequency boost. But also, supercardioid allows more bleed than cardioid, but obviously nothing like an omni or bi-directional mic. What do you think is the problem NL5?

Placement.

 

[pandamonk]

Placement.

Me too, but mic might be part. 'cause i know placement is huge, but it doesn't seem to out of place by the way dwkman0117 explains it, and such a small movement won't, in my opinion, reduce the bleed to the level you have it, or the level wanted.

 

[NL5]

It's probably 100% placement. The mic is a super cardioid snare mic, so I am guessing it should work fine on snare.

We need a pic!

You would be amazed at how little most people know about how a mic works, and how it should be placed.

 

[pandamonk]

It's probably 100% placement. The mic is a super cardioid snare mic, so I am guessing it should work fine on snare.

We need a pic!

You would be amazed at how little most people know about how a mic works, and how it should be placed.

Unless he has it facing the hats, i doubt he could reduce the bleed as much as it seems you have...

And yes we do need a pic!

 

[NL5]

Unless he has it facing the hats, i doubt he could reduce the bleed as much as it seems you have...

I didn't really worry about bleed in the example I gave. And, I use a fairly similar mic. He has to have it placed completely wrong. That's the only way a cardioid mic could produce a track like that.

Do you understand how a cardioid mic works?

edit -

read this thread - https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=234227

The snare track in that thread is more than 30db higher than the bleed. Pretty big difference.

 

[technominds]

Im pretty sure I can get those drums sounding pretty good. e-mail the seperate parts to t_minds@hotmail.com and il give it a go (in my new studio )

 

[NL5]

Im pretty sure I can get those drums sounding pretty good. e-mail the seperate parts to t_minds@hotmail.com and il give it a go (in my new studio )

I sent them.

I'm sure they can be made better, but it's not worth the effort, and they need to be recorded correctly.

 

[pandamonk]

I didn't really worry about bleed in the example I gave. And, I use a fairly similar mic. He has to have it placed completely wrong. That's the only way a cardioid mic could produce a track like that.

I meant the picture you posted, visually showing how little bleed you get.

Do you understand how a cardioid mic works?

edit -

read this thread - https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=234227

The snare track in that thread is more than 30db higher than the bleed. Pretty big difference.

And yes i do understand how it works. This is a supercardioid, do you understand how it works? Sorry...

It allows more bleed from behind than a cardioid...

I think of a cardioid polar pattern like a bum, and a supercardioid as a bum doing a shit, haha.

In dwkman0117's snare track, it's less than 5dB higher than the bleed in some places. How can he get this to 30dB? Yes placement, i agree, but also a new mic might help, and a new head maybe.

In the case of his snare mic, the supercardioid polar pattern shows that sounds directly behind the mic are only 10dB reduced over sounds the mic is directly aimed at. Yet at a 120degree angle it is better than a standard cardioid mic.

If you have a cardioid mic aimed at the snare, snare is really all you will get, like your link, but if you use a supercardioid, you will get snare, and whatever is directly behind the mic -10dB.

I think this is fine on toms, especially if you only have one overhead and are using the toms for stereo imaging. The bleed from behind might pick up a bit of the cymbals, helping give them a little stereo(not much, but a little maybe).

But on a snare track, snare is really all you want, so cardioid is the way to go, in my opinion, and obviously placement is crucial.

 

[pandamonk]

I sent them.

I'm sure they can be made better, but it's not worth the effort, and they need to be recorded correctly.

I agree totally. I really fucked around with them with EQ, taking out most of the sound leaving only a few frequencies, and manually gating toms etc, and it still sounds pretty bad. If a well tuned kit was recorded well, in a good large room, away from corners, using good mics, etc. you'd barely need to do anything. Now he has a decent kit, a large room, and good mics(maybe need a cardioid though). All he needs is to get out the corner, get new heads(new beater too), tune them well, and work on placement.

 

[NL5]

But on a snare track, snare is really all you want, so cardioid is the way to go, in my opinion, and obviously placement is crucial.

Hey - I hope you didn't think I was implying that you didn't know how a cardioid mic worked. I was simply asking.

The snare tracks I used for examples here, and in the thread I referenced, were done with a hyper cardioid mic that has a very similar response pattern, and a similar spike in the upper frequencies. There is no reason he shouldn't be getting enough bleed out that the snare track is easily gated to eliminate any bleed if he desired. Or, to drumagog it - which was impossible with his track. His mic should provide between 10-20db cut from the hihat, plus the fact that the snare is already louder, he should easily have the snare hits peaking a good 20db above the hihat. I get better than thirty without any effort.

 

[hoops]

There is some really great advice here. Pandamonk, you gave some great advice.
Dwkman, when was the last time you changed your skins? Do I see pinstripe's on the bottom of the toms? Fresh skins propperly tuned will make a huge difference. I would crank the top skin of the snare and losen the bottom some. That will give you lots of attack with some body.

 

[pandamonk]

Hey - I hope you didn't think I was implying that you didn't know how a cardioid mic worked. I was simply asking.

The snare tracks I used for examples here, and in the thread I referenced, were done with a hyper cardioid mic that has a very similar response pattern, and a similar spike in the upper frequencies. There is no reason he shouldn't be getting enough bleed out that the snare track is easily gated to eliminate any bleed if he desired. Or, to drumagog it - which was impossible with his track. His mic should provide between 10-20db cut from the hihat, plus the fact that the snare is already louder, he should easily have the snare hits peaking a good 20db above the hihat. I get better than thirty without any effort.

Yeah i felt a bit miffed that you were implying that. Sorry for thinking that you were, lol.

And yeah, he should get 10-20dB, with that mic. I was just saying that he might get a little more with a different mic, but it shouldn't matter too much.

 

[NL5]

I was just saying that he might get a little more with a different mic, but it shouldn't matter too much.

I agree. That might not be the best mic, but it's not the main reason the snare track sounds the way it does.

 

[pandamonk]

I agree. That might not be the best mic, but it's not the main reason the snare track sounds the way it does.

I agree, but it could help a little. But placment is certainly most important... We in agreement now?

 

[dwkman0117]

wow - Thanks for all of the advice - if anything, I would be the one who doesn't really know how to place or how the mics work... I am the novice...

I will post a mic placement pic tomorrow - sorry work has been crazy..

the snare head is real tight - I will losen up the bottom - I was going to get a new head for the small tom and also a new beater for the kick.

 

[hoops]

the snare head is real tight - I will losen up the bottom - I was going to get a new head for the small tom and also a new beater for the kick.

Put Resonent heads on the bottoms of your toms not batter heads. You will drasticly improve your tone.