Can someone please shed some light on this?

[famous beagle]

I've played guitar for 25 years, and in that time, I've played Strats, an Ibanez, a Hagstrom, and an Epi Dot. I had never had an issue with getting a buzz when I wasn't touching the strings.

So I bought my first Tele (on ebay) a few months ago, and it had this problem. It would noticeably buzz when I wasn't touching anything, but the buzz would go away when I touched the strings (or the pickups or metal knobs). Both pickups are single coils.

So I thought, "what the hell?" I looked online and found some people saying things like:

This is normal and is the reason your strings are grounded—to eliminate 120 cycle hum when you touch the strings.

But I thought, "This is silly. I know I've played other people's Teles, and they didn't have this problem." So I did a bit more research and found out that most Teles make their ground connection to the strings via a metal plate on the bottom of the bridge pickup. I didn't understand exactly how this worked; I only knew that my bridge pickup didn't have a metal plate on the bottom of it.

So I soldered a wire from ground (the back of a pot) to the bottom of the bridge, and presto --- buzz is gone.


So ... what the hell gives?


I'd like to understand exactly why this happened. Why was the buzz going away when I was touching the strings.

I know that some people will say "Well, when you touched the strings, you grounded them" But, that's the case, then how? How was I grounded? I was on the second floor of my house in a carpeted room in my shoes.

What the hell is the final word with this? Why are some people saying this noise is normal?

Anyone????

 

[mjbphotos]

Even with shoes in a carpeted room, you are still supplying a grounding path. It's only 'normal' if the guitar isn't grounded correctly with its wiring. And it's a 60Hz hum (120 volt).

 

[famous beagle]

Even with shoes in a carpeted room, you are still supplying a grounding path.

How????? I'm conductive, but my shoes are hardly at all, the carpet is hardly at all, the wood beneath it is hardly at all. HOW am I providing a grounding path? I don't get it.

 

[Track Rat]

Your body is providing another ground potential. Welcome to the world of single coil pickups.

 

[famous beagle]

Your body is providing another ground potential. Welcome to the world of single coil pickups.

As I said in my post above, I've played Strats for 25 years, and I never had one that buzzed when I lifted my hands off the strings. I had typical single-coil hum, but I never had an exaggerated buzz that only showed up when I wasn't touching the strings.

Also as I said, I fixed the problem on my Tele. The bridge (and therefore strings) weren't grounded. I did that, and the problem went away.

What I'm trying to figure out is:

1) Why some people are saying things like "This buzz is normal and is the reason your strings are grounded—to eliminate 120 cycle hum when you touch the strings."

and

2) How do I become an alternate ground potential? HOW am I grounded to earth?

 

[TelePaul]

Probably not what you wanna hear, but all my Teles buzz this way. Always have. Never gave it a huge amount of thought, as any research i've done into it suggests it's normal Tele noise.

Congrats on the guitar btw - Teles are amazing.

 

[ranjam]

GuitarNuts.com - You're a Walking Bucket O' Noise

 

[famous beagle]

I'm getting the feeling that people aren't really reading my posts.

TelePaul, as I've mentioned above, I've solved the problem. It's not buzzing anymore when I lift my hands off the strings. I don't know how you could stand that, personally!

The problem with my Tele was that the bridge pickup didn't have a brass plate on the bottom, which is normally soldered to ground on a Tele. Normally, the pickup screws, which make contact with this brass plate, contacts the bridge, which contacts the strings, which means it's all grounded.

Since my bridge pickup didn't have this brass plate, I simply soldered a wire to the back of one pot (ground) and ran it under the bridge so it made contact (it's not even soldered at this point, because I don't have an iron that will get hot enough, but you can't see it).

So now the bridge and strings are grounded, and the buzz that was present when I lifted my hands off the strings went away completely. Of course, I still have a little normal single coil hum (which isn't much at all because I've fully shielded the guitar), but my point is that the buzz does not increase when I take my hands off the strings.

If your guitars are still doing this, I'd suggest you check your grounding, because it shouldn't be doing that.

My whole question is this: I understand why connecting the bridge to ground stopped the noise. The bridge is connected to the back of the pot, which is connected to the sleeve on the jack, which runs through the cable, through the amp, and on its way to its earth connection via the wall jack.

But why, if the bridge is not soldered to ground, did the buzz stop when I touched the strings? How am I providing a ground?

Can anyone answer this for me ... please? Surely someone knows.

 

[famous beagle]

GuitarNuts.com - You're a Walking Bucket O' Noise

I've read this, and it just confused me even more. Here's why. He says:

"Almost all guitars have a wire that connects the bridge (or tremelo claw) to the ground terminal of the output jack so that the strings are grounded. When someone picks up the guitar and holds it close to them, that person's body is acting as a radiator or reflector of noise in the vicinity, "concentrating" it, if you will, close to the guitar's pickups. Then, when they touch the strings their body is suddenly much better grounded, shunting noise to ground."

Ok, I can buy that I suppose. But then he says:


"If the strings are not grounded, the noise will usually actually get louder when someone touches the strings because the strings act like very good radiators to concentrate the noise from the person's body right over the pickups. If the player's body was grounding the strings, the noise would get quieter when the player touched the strings, even if there was no bridge ground wire!"

All of this contradicts my experience. The first sentence is not consistent with what happened to me. My strings were not connected to ground, but my noise got quieter when I touched the strings---not louder.

And the bold sentence isn't consistent with my experience either. That's exactly what happened with me. My strings weren't grounded, and the noise did get quieter when I touched them.

What gives?

 

[mjbphotos]

I've had a 72 Tele Standard since it was new. Only time I got AC hum was when the amp wasn't properly grounded.
I can't comment on the quoted stuff above, but speaking from an electrical point of view, when you touch the strings you are providing a ground path that is not there Because the bridge and strings are not wired to the ground circuit (or because the ground circuit is not wired to the actual ground of what the amp is plugged into) there is a voltage difference. Even with rubber soles and a carpet, the voltage between your body and actual ground is less than the ungrounded bridge/wire and ground, hence the sound change when you touch the strings.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Lol @ this thread.

Good luck OP. You're gonna need it.

I don't know the answer, but for what it's worth, I understand the question.

 

[miroslav]

So now the bridge and strings are grounded, and the buzz that was present when I lifted my hands off the strings went away completely. Of course, I still have a little normal single coil hum (which isn't much at all because I've fully shielded the guitar), but my point is that the buzz does not increase when I take my hands off the strings.

I think there are two things being kicked around...ground "buzz" as in no-ground/ground loop buzz...and typical single coil buzz/hum (whatever you want to call it).

I bet in most cases, everyone has the single-coil type that we all live with...there is NO simple grounding solution that will fix that, and it makes NO difference what you do with your hand/strings....it's there, sometimes more/less depending where you stand and what is close by.

The "buzz" you were experiencing is something altogether different, and only suggests that the guitar was not properly grounded to begin with. All you did was wire it the way it was supposed to be...which most guitars are to begin with.
So...while you think you've found some miracle solution , in fact, all you've done is wired the ground correctly that was not there. My Tele has no ground buzz...just the single-coil noise.

You can take most any guitar (single-coil or HB) and create the buzz you were experiencing about by breaking the ground that is wired to the bridge...or plug into some stomp-box that is not properly wired, and you either break the ground or create a ground loop --- same "buzz".

 

[famous beagle]

I think there are two things being kicked around...ground "buzz" as in no-ground/ground loop buzz...and typical single coil buzz/hum (whatever you want to call it).

I bet in most cases, everyone has the single-coil type that we all live with...there is NO simple grounding solution that will fix that, and it makes NO difference what you do with your hand/strings....it's there, sometimes more/less depending where you stand and what is close by.

The "buzz" you were experiencing is something altogether different, and only suggests that the guitar was not properly grounded to begin with. All you did was wire it the way it was supposed to be...which most guitars are to begin with.
So...while you think you've found some miracle solution , in fact, all you've done is wired the ground correctly that was not there. My Tele has no ground buzz...just the single-coil noise.

You can take most any guitar (single-coil or HB) and create the buzz you were experiencing about by breaking the ground that is wired to the bridge...or plug into some stomp-box that is not properly wired, and you either break the ground or create a ground loop --- same "buzz".

No I don't think I found a miracle solution. I actually found the solution because I read in some forum someone saying "most Teles have a brass plate on the bottom of the bridge pickup, which is how the bridge and strings are grounded ... If yours doesn't have that, you can ... etc."

I was just confused because so many people are saying that getting extra noise when not touching the strings is normal. I understand your basic single coil hum. But the noise should not increase when you let go of the strings. Yet many people claim this is normal and (apparently) live with this problem.

I don't know how. It drove me absolutely nuts!

 

[miroslav]

Yet many people claim this is normal and (apparently) live with this problem.

I wouldn't call it "normal"...but it can be common if you move from place to place, as you never know how good the AC is wired, or with certain gear added to the chain.
In a controlled environment, you can eliminate most of that problem with all your gear, either as you did, where it was at the guitar, or sometimes it's solved at some other piece of gear.

You might still encounter the ground-loop hum in a different setting and/or plugging that same guitar into other gear.
What I meant by it not being a "miracle" is that it's not forever solved by what you did...that's just one solution for one instance, but certainly all guitars need to be properly grounded as a starting point.

 

[stevieb]

Well, you see...

Ah, screw it. It's late, I should already be in bed, my ex-GF laid some stuff on me that has my head just all turned around... and I got a VERY important meeting in the morning. You guys figure it out without me.

 

[TelePaul]

pickup didn't have a brass plate on the bottom, which is normally soldered to ground on a Tele. Normally, the pickup screws, which make contact with this brass plate, contacts the bridge, which contacts the strings, which means it's all grounded.

Not sure how 'normal' that is on a Tele.

If your guitars are still doing this, I'd suggest you check your grounding, because it shouldn't be doing that.

I've never found it to be such a significant problem as to warrant remedying, and again, don't really see it as an anomaly. Normal according to Jason Lollar too who I'd consider to be very much in the know. Maybe I'll try to run a ground to a pot over the weekend and see what the impact is.

 

[Bryan316]

Buzzing guitars are only normal for STUPID people who buy janky-ass low quality guitars that aren't constructed correctly.

If "many people claim this is normal," then you need to stop hanging around those people. Probably the same people who tell you the SM58 is the best vocal mic out there, or Boss Metal Zone pedals sound great.

 

[TelePaul]

Buzzing guitars are only normal for STUPID people who buy janky-ass low quality guitars

LOL lik good wun Bryne!

Seriously though, that's a bit of a retarded thing to say. A guitar isn't a piece of surgical equipment, it's a hunk of wood and metal. Single coil guitars can make fucked up noises. C'est la vie. Go play a US Tele and tell me if it buzzes when you take your hand soff the strings - I'll play one tomorrow and we can compare notes. It'll be fun.

 

[famous beagle]

LOL lik good wun Bryne!

Seriously though, that's a bit of a retarded thing to say. A guitar isn't a piece of surgical equipment, it's a hunk of wood and metal. Single coil guitars can make fucked up noises. C'est la vie. Go play a US Tele and tell me if it buzzes when you take your hand soff the strings - I'll play one tomorrow and we can compare notes. It'll be fun.

That's actually a very good idea, and the next time I'm at a music store, I'm going to do just that. Like I said, I've played many guitars in my life, including many Teles (probably a dozen or more), and I had never come across this problem before I owned my first Tele. And I know it's not something as simple as "well, maybe you just didn't notice it on the other Teles because you hadn't spent enough time with them."

I'm a pretty anal retentive person, and I noticed the issue on my Tele about 5 seconds after plugging it in, when the buzz all of the sudden got a lot quieter. From then on, I was on a mad crusade to fix the problem. If weren't able to fix it, I wouldn't have kept the guitar. That issue is totally unacceptable to me. But that's just me.

 

[Bryan316]

LOL lik good wun Bryne!

Seriously though, that's a bit of a retarded thing to say.

What guitarist out there worth his salt would ever say, "Yeah a buzzy guitar is normal" ? If I ever encounter a guitarist who says their buzzing guitar is normal, I'd run like his stupid is contagious.

A guitar isn't a piece of surgical equipment, it's a hunk of wood and metal.

Ever construct a guitar from scratch? Ever carve and shape a neck? Ever try to measure out a fret board to make sure every note is accurate and intonated correctly? Ever try to get the neck pocket glue joints exactly as tight as necessary?

An average guitar is average.

A GOOD guitar is a work of art crafted with the detail a surgeon pays to an open chest cavity.

Saying a guitar is a hunk of wood and metal is an insult to good luthiers everywhere.