Can someone please shed some light on this?

[stevieb]

My, my MY! A bit touchy, are we?

 

[TelePaul]

What guitarist out there worth his salt would ever say, "Yeah a buzzy guitar is normal" ?

Just Google 'guitar hum' or 'guitar buzz' - you'll find all sorts of players discussing how certain guitars have buzzed under certain conditions or in certain venues. Single coils, for instance, will always hum to a greater or lesser degree, which may explain why Fender never really took off. Oh, wait, of course they fucking did.

Ever construct a guitar from scratch? Ever carve and shape a neck? Ever try to measure out a fret board to make sure every note is accurate and intonated correctly? Ever try to get the neck pocket glue joints exactly as tight as necessary?

Would it make you feel better if I described an electric guitar as a finely crafted hunk of wood and metal?

An average guitar is average.

A GOOD guitar is a work of art crafted with the detail a surgeon pays to an open chest cavity.

LOL!

Saying a guitar is a hunk of wood and metal is an insult to good luthiers everywhere.

No. No it's not.

I wish Muttley were here.

 

[TelePaul]

That's actually a very good idea, and the next time I'm at a music store, I'm going to do just that. Like I said, I've played many guitars in my life, including many Teles (probably a dozen or more), and I had never come across this problem before I owned my first Tele. And I know it's not something as simple as "well, maybe you just didn't notice it on the other Teles because you hadn't spent enough time with them."

Not to cast aspersions on this, but it's tough to find a guitar shop with sound-proofed booths over here. I'll have a tough time finding a quiet music store tomorrow, it being a Saturday, but I have 4 T-Style guitars here; 2 x US Teles, 1 x Mexi and on Fret King replica. I've no problem trying them all out over the weekend, as this has piqued my interest. I'll report back if ya like.

I'm a pretty anal retentive person, and I noticed the issue on my Tele about 5 seconds after plugging it in, when the buzz all of the sudden got a lot quieter. From then on, I was on a mad crusade to fix the problem. If weren't able to fix it, I wouldn't have kept the guitar. That issue is totally unacceptable to me. But that's just me.

I used to be like that, but recording music cured of that! I can't think of many situations where one hears a guitar purely in isolation - it's either in a mix, or over people talking in a bar, or whatever. Very rarely have I heard someone play a guitar in a silent surround. Add anything to it, vocals, another guitar, a drummer, a crowd of people, a car passing outside and any ancillary sound becomes a complete non-issue.

 

[famous beagle]

Not to cast aspersions on this, but it's tough to find a guitar shop with sound-proofed booths over here. I'll have a tough time finding a quiet music store tomorrow, it being a Saturday, but I have 4 T-Style guitars here; 2 x US Teles, 1 x Mexi and on Fret King replica. I've no problem trying them all out over the weekend, as this has piqued my interest. I'll report back if ya like.



I used to be like that, but recording music cured of that! I can't think of many situations where one hears a guitar purely in isolation - it's either in a mix, or over people talking in a bar, or whatever. Very rarely have I heard someone play a guitar in a silent surround. Add anything to it, vocals, another guitar, a drummer, a crowd of people, a car passing outside and any ancillary sound becomes a complete non-issue.

You're right; it's rare, but it does happen. And I'm a perfect example. I write and edit guitar instructional books for Hal Leonard (my day job), and I record a lot of accompanying CDs for those books too. Some have full band, but probably half of the tracks are guitar only, so it is quite relevant to my work.

However, we may be talking about a different level of buzz here, because this type of buzz is definitely not something you'd need to be in a soundproof room to hear. Granted, you may not be able to hear it in a noisy moment at Guitar Center, but I'm confident you could still hear it then if you just got your head close enough to the speaker.

And sure, I'd love to hear what you find.

 

[TelePaul]

You're right; it's rare, but it does happen. And I'm a perfect example. I write and edit guitar instructional books for Hal Leonard (my day job), and I record a lot of accompanying CDs for those books too. Some have full band, but probably half of the tracks are guitar only, so it is quite relevant to my work.

Hey, that's cool, I've quite a few Hal Leonard books I bought back in the day! Were pretty cool but the Metallica S & M book was very much a bridge too far for me! I can see why you'd need to keep things nice and quiet, I've been in and out of love with noise gates over the years...might revisit one.

However, we may be talking about a different level of buzz here, because this type of buzz is definitely not something you'd need to be in a soundproof room to hear. Granted, you may not be able to hear it in a noisy moment at Guitar Center, but I'm confident you could still hear it then if you just got your head close enough to the speaker.

And sure, I'd love to hear what you find.

So I'll try a couple of Teles this evening - need to restring a few. Interestingly enough, I was playing a US Strat through a Marshall Class 5 yesterday, and had all controls at around 12 o'clock. Just for fun, I made a point of checking for a difference in the noise floor when touching the strings - sure enough, taking your hands off the strings causes a small increase in the amount of background noise present. Lemme try some Teles and get back to you.

 

[famous beagle]

Amazing ... I've probably played fifty Strats or more in my day and never had the problem.

Of course, that depends exactly on what you consider a "small increase." When I got my Tele, the buzz was noticeably louder; it wasn't what I would call slight--more like ... just noticeable. I mean, it didn't buzz like when you touch a guitar cable with your hand, but it was quite noticeable enough for me to say "what in the hell?"

 

[TelePaul]

Right, that's a very valid point. I was quite interested in whether this issue/phenomenon/whatever occurred on a Strat as well as a Tele, and I had the gain hiked up pretty far so as to easily determine any superfluous noise. Off hand, I don't think it was anything near as prominent as the buzz that accompanies my Tele in the same conditions, so I wouldn't call it much of a 'problem'. This is getting interesting!

 

[TelePaul]

Okay, the results of my little 'experiment' while they're fresh in my head! All guitars plugged straight into a Blackstar HT 5 head (clean channel) and two Vox cabinets.

US Telecaster 1: Prominent buzz in all positions when no contact made with strings. Buzz loudest in neck position with apparent high-end roll-off in bridge pickup. Note: This guitar produced the loudest 'hum' of all, though it also featured a notably higher output. Not sure what pickups are in this thing, but they're loud!

US Telecaster 2: As above, though overall noise levels appeared lessened. Again, buzz was less prominent (but still apparent!) across the bridge pickups.

Fret King Super T: As US Telecaster 2.

Mexican Tele: As above, buzz introduced when no strings or hardware touched. Probably second noisiest after US Tele 1.

So I'm not sure where that leaves us! You said you found a fix, right? Did you solder the bridge pickup bass to an earth or the bridge itself to an earth? Any other discernible impact on tone?

 

[famous beagle]

Okay, the results of my little 'experiment' while they're fresh in my head! All guitars plugged straight into a Blackstar HT 5 head (clean channel) and two Vox cabinets.

US Telecaster 1: Prominent buzz in all positions when no contact made with strings. Buzz loudest in neck position with apparent high-end roll-off in bridge pickup. Note: This guitar produced the loudest 'hum' of all, though it also featured a notably higher output. Not sure what pickups are in this thing, but they're loud!

US Telecaster 2: As above, though overall noise levels appeared lessened. Again, buzz was less prominent (but still apparent!) across the bridge pickups.

Fret King Super T: As US Telecaster 2.

Mexican Tele: As above, buzz introduced when no strings or hardware touched. Probably second noisiest after US Tele 1.

So I'm not sure where that leaves us! You said you found a fix, right? Did you solder the bridge pickup bass to an earth or the bridge itself to an earth? Any other discernible impact on tone?

Thanks for doing the test. So, just to be clear, this buzz that was there when not touching the strings decreased considerably when you did touch the strings, correct?

If your guitars are doing this, my guess is that the strings/bridge are not grounded, but I don't know for sure. That's what fixed it on my guitar. My bridge pickup didn't have a brass plate on the bottom, so I just soldered a wire from the back of the volume pot (IOW, ground), ran it up through the bridge p/u cavity, and laid it flat under the bridge so that the bridge made contact with it when I screwed it down. I couldn't solder it to the bridge because I don't have a soldering iron that will get hot enough to do that. But that worked for me. And no, I didn't notice any difference in tone whatsoever. Just a lack of that annoying buzz.

I would suggest you take a look under the hood and see if there's a connection from ground to your bridge pickup brass plate (if yours have the brass plate) or to the bridge.

 

[TelePaul]

Thanks for doing the test. So, just to be clear, this buzz that was there when not touching the strings decreased considerably when you did touch the strings, correct?

If your guitars are doing this, my guess is that the strings/bridge are not grounded, but I don't know for sure. That's what fixed it on my guitar. My bridge pickup didn't have a brass plate on the bottom, so I just soldered a wire from the back of the volume pot (IOW, ground), ran it up through the bridge p/u cavity, and laid it flat under the bridge so that the bridge made contact with it when I screwed it down. I couldn't solder it to the bridge because I don't have a soldering iron that will get hot enough to do that. But that worked for me. And no, I didn't notice any difference in tone whatsoever. Just a lack of that annoying buzz.

I would suggest you take a look under the hood and see if there's a connection from ground to your bridge pickup brass plate (if yours have the brass plate) or to the bridge.

Awesome! Yes, touching a string reduced the buzz entirely. Thanks for the detailed approach here, I'm having trouble visualising the Tele cavity. I could nearly swear that I've seen a wire mount to a small, washer-like piece of metal distinct from the other pickup wirings. Do you think a wire under the bridge could possibly offset the bridge somehow? I'll check for a plate on the bridge pickup underside first.

 

[famous beagle]

Awesome! Yes, touching a string reduced the buzz entirely. Thanks for the detailed approach here, I'm having trouble visualising the Tele cavity. I could nearly swear that I've seen a wire mount to a small, washer-like piece of metal distinct from the other pickup wirings. Do you think a wire under the bridge could possibly offset the bridge somehow? I'll check for a plate on the bridge pickup underside first.

No, the wire won't offset the bridge unless maybe it's mega thick or something. I thought of that and used stranded wire just to be safe. But, no, it's fine. I just recently set up my Tele from the ground up, and it plays like a dream with that wire under there. I'm planning on replacing the pickup soon, so hopefully it will have a brass plate, so I can solder to it.

 

[TelePaul]

No, the wire won't offset the bridge unless maybe it's mega thick or something. I thought of that and used stranded wire just to be safe. But, no, it's fine. I just recently set up my Tele from the ground up, and it plays like a dream with that wire under there. I'm planning on replacing the pickup soon, so hopefully it will have a brass plate, so I can solder to it.

That's great. I'll try this with my Mexi on wednesday and report back! How about some pics and a clip or two of your new Tele?

 

[famous beagle]

That's great. I'll try this with my Mexi on wednesday and report back! How about some pics and a clip or two of your new Tele?

Sure. Here's a pic and a few licks from a book I wrote for Hal Leonard called Country Guitar Lesson Goldmine, which will be published in a few months.

 

[TelePaul]

Looks awesome, nice three-saddle bridge. Great sounds too, let me know when the book is out and I'll pick up a copy.

 

[famous beagle]

Looks awesome, nice three-saddle bridge. Great sounds too, let me know when the book is out and I'll pick up a copy.

Will do. If you like the country stuff, I also appeared on this DVD, 200 Country Licks

200 Country Licks, Instructional/Guitar/DVD - Hal Leonard Online

I taught 45 of the 200 licks, and there are two other guitarist featured. It's a nice DVD (hi-def) with a fast and slow version of each lick (w/ onscreen tab) and then a minute-long (or so) explanation of what's happening.

The book (which is from the same "Goldmine" series) will go a bit more in depth. There are 100 lessons in all, and I wrote 50 of them. Each lesson is on a different topic and spans two pages. There's a CD too demonstrating the licks (of which you heard samples).

Anyway, I'll let you know when it's available.

 

[TelePaul]

So, a weird development on my side. I had some time today so I opened my mexi tele. There's a really nice brass slab under the bridge pickup, so I figured I'd run a jumper from that to the volume pot. As it happened, it already featured a solder blob - looks like a tiny wire is intentionally folded over and soldered to the brass plate. So I connected the jumper to this and soldered the other end to my volume pot - all pretty normal.

The thing is, it has had no impact at all on this buzzing noise. I put my hands on the strings or control plate, it's all quiet - I take them off, and there's that hum again. I really don't know how I could have messed up such a simple wiring. Very confused here!

 

[TelePaul]

Moved the hook-up from the pickup base plate to the bridge plate but still nothing. This is really puzzling me! Wondering if it's a larger issue with the grounding on the pot. Hmmm.

 

[famous beagle]

Moved the hook-up from the pickup base plate to the bridge plate but still nothing. This is really puzzling me! Wondering if it's a larger issue with the grounding on the pot. Hmmm.

Yeah it could be a ground issue overall. I would check the pots and also the connection at the output jack.

 

[bunt]

Maybe think of it a different way... you are more of a spnge than a ground. strings act like an antenna that picks up electrical noise. The human body acts like a bigger antenna that can "suck" that noise into itself. The interesting thing is that since the human body is a big antenna for electrical noise too, if the the grounding wire to the output jack is reversed, then all that noise can be pushed into the guitar circuit by touching the strings or the bridge (if they are connected).
That's why sometimes people say the noise gets worse and some say it goes less when touched..

 

[famous beagle]

Maybe think of it a different way... you are more of a spnge than a ground. strings act like an antenna that picks up electrical noise. The human body acts like a bigger antenna that can "suck" that noise into itself. The interesting thing is that since the human body is a big antenna for electrical noise too, if the the grounding wire to the output jack is reversed, then all that noise can be pushed into the guitar circuit by touching the strings or the bridge (if they are connected).
That's why sometimes people say the noise gets worse and some say it goes less when touched..

I'll buy that, but would Fender really make such a big mistake as to wire the output jack backwards? Some people are saying that they have this issue on brand new Teles. Could their quality control be that bad?