A Guide for New Guitarist.

  • Thread starter Thread starter happyguy
  • Start date Start date
LOL!
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Here’s the real skinny and the shake down:
The “only reason” why some of you have a problem
with what I wrote.. is because it is 100% true… maybe the
“so called experts” saying, in my guide above.. was too familiar with
some of you? Maybe it was the overpriced store and labor that got
some of you, being store owners?

:

this is an idiotic statement because first of all if what you were saying were true there is not a music store in this world who would buy high end guitars to try to sell due to one simple fact that the large majority of instruments and gear sold is the low end stuff. I would be conservitave to say that less than 15% of any sales/purchases is on high end guitars and equipment.

your comments are ludicriss and demonstrates you do not have a clue to what you are talking about.

people buy high end guitars is simply because the moment they begin to play it they can feel and hear a significant difference in how they play and sound and that goes for any piece of musical equipment.


I will also go on the record by saying that I am not a shop owner either but I do build stringed instruments so does this qualify me as a so called "expert"?:confused:

I know I should not feed the troll but I could not let this comment go without saying something:rolleyes:
 
people buy high end guitars is simply because the moment they begin to play it they can feel and hear a significant difference in how they play and sound and that goes for any piece of musical equipment.

You see man, it depends. I certainly don't doubt that guys like Satch and Vai really use the advantage of hi-end guitars to sound as awesome as they do.

But sometimes you read interview with guys like Dino from Divine Heresy or whatever where they go on about "whoa I only use guitars with mahogany body finish coz it makes the wood reverbarate to the sound of my guitar tone... and my secret is my digitech death factory cranked to 11 on distortion :eek:" :D
 
You see man, it depends. I certainly don't doubt that guys like Satch and Vai really use the advantage of hi-end guitars to sound as awesome as they do.

But sometimes you read interview with guys like Dino from Divine Heresy or whatever where they go on about "whoa I only use guitars with mahogany body finish coz it makes the wood reverbarate to the sound of my guitar tone... and my secret is my digitech death factory cranked to 11 on distortion :eek:" :D

That may be, but the one thing that's been stated a lot here still applies: it's next to impossible for a begginer to make that determination. I'll say it again: I play my $200 & $300 guitars almost as much as my $2000 guitars. But I didn't get those guitars by blindly picking a cheapy and ordering on the internet. It's taken me years to know what I like and don't and how to find a rare gem for a garage sale price.

So yeah, maybe a beginner has to start cheap. But he should be doing so with the intention of learning about guitars--and if he sticks with it, he ought to plan on upgrading based on what he's learned. To the contrary, the OP says beginners should buy cheap because expensive guitars (and services) are a con, and there's no difference...
 
Speaking of cheap guitars, which ones do you own?

Because I had played 400 bucks Ibanez RG321 and I absolutely love it. I'm wondering because soon I'll be able to afford a much higher class Ibanez model, like RG350 series, but for some reason I just clicked with 321 and don't want to look any further.
 
this is an idiotic statement because first of all if what you were saying were true there is not a music store in this world who would buy high end guitars to try to sell due to one simple fact that the large majority of instruments and gear sold is the low end stuff. I would be conservitave to say that less than 15% of any sales/purchases is on high end guitars and equipment.

Haha, you know, in my surprise at the OP's sheer, um, pig-headed-ness, we'll say, I totally forgot that. I've heard that too, that most shops make more on Squier starter packs than they do on the high end stuff.

Mish, I'm a recovering ibanez fanboy (they and Schecter are still your best bet for semi-affordable sevens, to be fair), so I can kind of speak to that... The RG350 is still pretty low end for Ibanez. It's the 5xx series and above (I guess now that;s 15XX) where you're really seeing a substantial difference in worksmanship and parts - they're built in Ibanez' Japanese factory, and have Ibanez's top-of-the-line trem, the Lo Pro or Edge on older ones (which is still the best liscensed Floyd I've ever played) and the Edge Pro (which is the 2nd best) on the newer ones.

My advice? See if you can find a used RG-520, if you want something with a trem. It has the original Edge, a mahogany body, and a quilted saepele top - kind of like quilted maple in appearance, no clue in tone as it's just a veneer really so there's too little of it to influence the tone. I owned one for a year or so that I traded in for my first 7, and while I have no regrets it was still an awesome six string, one of the best Ibanezes I've ever played.

If you want to spend a little more, look for a pre-Edge Pro (around '03 or so) RG3120 - I'm a HUGE fan of the "Twilight Blue" finish, the 3120TW:

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...=RG3120TW&um=1&hl=en&client=opera&rls=en&sa=N

They're not bad with the Edge Pro either, but they got blown out at clearance prices when the new models came in (still kicking myself for not grabbing one), so you may be able to get them a little cheaper. Both guitars are relatively affordable on the second hand market - say, $500-ish for the former, $700-ish for the later, give or take a hundred or two.
 
RG1570 looks amazing - I've never touched it coz it costs over $1200 in the UK. But I follow your drift - as long as I'm fairly satisfied with my main guitar, I'd rather save for a good replacement rather then a so-so replacement.
Cheers for the opinion!
 
Btw, yall might want to chip in and vote down this thread so no innocent n00bz might be hurt :p
 
1st - I wasn’t flaming anyone here, nor was I trolling.
I really do appreciate the people who posted, that
they disagreed with me.. but did not bash or insult
me afterwards.. Thank You.

2nd - The reason why I posted back was just
to prove my point again. I didn’t think that my
guide was referring to anyone here..
but I now stand corrected.

3rd - People that are saying that I started
trolling ect..back up a bit… the “flame train”
begins with mikemorgan then WhiteStrat
(nice fanning the flames) followed by
muttley600 (nice dick comment on the 2nd post.)
then a nice bs smiley by Roguetitan then
followed by more “experts”.

4th - I just put down what I still believe to be true…
and that beginners should follow. If you don’t think
that is true, that’s fine.. as I said in the beginning of
the thread.. I respect opinions that are different
then my own.

5th - Here some more advice to you guys.. because
some of you need it. Just because some one has
a different point of view then yourself don’t gang
up and bash the person…your just making
yourself look foolish. You see, I don’t have to
get a group of “ so called experts” together to
bash some one that has a different opinion then
myself, just to prove my point.
And looking at this thread...some of you have
already proven that already.

Good Job gang.. WELL DONE !!!
 
Hey happyguy, don't take it badly. People here are a good bunch.
 
Your post contained an exorbitant amount of disinformation. The more helpful and knowledgeable members of this forum wanted to be sure that your incorrect statements were refuted, so as to help those who wouldn't know any better discern good information, from nonsensical jibberish.

If you pay more then $500, then that is “way” too much. You
can get “equal playability and sound quality” from a cheap guitar.
While you are correct that there is no need for a new guitarist to go blow a couple grand on a guitar, claiming that you can get equal playability and sound quality from cheap guitars is specious at best: it would be more correct to state that there are inexpensive guitars out there that have good playability and sound quality, comparable to some of the more expensive guitars out there. To derive the sweeping statement that you can get "equal playability and sound quality from a cheap guitar", is over-generalizing, and thus ultimately incorrect.


Also, don’t
worry if the guitar that you are buying is made in this country or that country
.. that does not matter.
Again, you are over-generalizing. The country of origin can be very much related to the sound of the guitar, due to the available woods in said country, and the quality of the work-force.


So called “guitar experts” like to tell people, to only buy expensive guitars
just to stoke their own ego’s. If you have “money to burn” sure..
buy a $1000+ Martin or Taylor or Gibson or Fender. The only thing that you’ll
be getting is fancier woods. “That’s it”.
This is where your "helpful post" becomes some sort of odd personal rant against 'guitar experts'. If you are claiming to know more than said 'experts', then you yourself are claiming to be an expert. As you might point out, you started off with the disclaimer that you are, in fact, NOT an expert, and thus your opinions by definition are less-informed than those of an expert in the field. To me, it sounds like you bought an expensive guitar and didn't like it, either due to lack of buying skills (did you play the damn thing?) or inability to properly set up the guitar, which leads us back to your lack of expertise on the subject.


The second thing to remember is that these so called “guitar experts” will
also tell a new guitarist to go down to a music store to try out different guitars..
“and don’t forget to buy from a local shop..” well that is just that.. some of
these “so called guitar experts” are local shop owners… you’ll find that local
music shop prices are “way overpriced”. By all means.. try some guitars in
the price range again, between $50.00 to $350 dollars (you’ll probably won’t
find any in the $50 range.. but “you will” on the internet!) then after making
some notes.. say thank you to the store help and walk out and then buy your
guitar on the internet...
Continuing your personal rant against knowledge...


Basic guitar setup should only cost you $20 bucks.. “That’s it” when you get
more experienced in guitars, you’ll be able to set up your own guitar after
purchasing, trust me it is “not“ hard to do.
I had an acoustic guitar and it’s bridge needed to be re-glued. I did not have
any wood cauls (clamps) so I went down to the local music store. The guy
gave a estimate of “$50 minimum”.. and I know.. He was going to charge me
into the “$100’s”.
This job should have been a “maximum” of $50 dollars, period… not a “minimum”.
So after I told him how he could fix the bridge, “step by step”..to kind of tell him
in my own way.. that I knew how the repair was done, he said.. “well… sorry but
that’s what the store owner tells me to charge.. I know it is overpriced labor..”
Nice huh?
Again.. try and find a solo, honest repair person.
Skilled labor costs money, as does food, shelter, gas, etc. If you're asking somebody else to take their time to fix your problems, they should be adequately compensated. If you think expert guitar repair isn't worth it, then by all means learn how to do it yourself. Personally, I'd rather pay a good man who's done the repairs hundreds of time some honest money in exchange for his years of knowledge dedicated to fixing my, and countless others', problems.



While you'll no doubt discount my post, again, for being too informative, insightful, and correct, I again hope whoever reads this thread will make it past your uninformed, ridiculous trite bullshit, and make it to some of the better posts in this thread.
 
1st - I wasn’t flaming anyone here, nor was I trolling.

Dude, of course you were flaming people. You repeatedly refer to those with advanced knowledge of guitars and luthiery as '"so-called experts."' Clearly, you're implying that your opinion should be given greater weight than those with more knowledge than you and that makes no sense on any level. And the use of the pejorative "so-called" is absolutely a flame. You came hear to start a fight and now you want to claim that wasn't your intention.

4th - I just put down what I still believe to be true…
and that beginners should follow. If you don’t think
that is true, that’s fine.. as I said in the beginning of
the thread.. I respect opinions that are different
then my own.

There was a time when people thought it was true that the Earth was flat and ships could sail off the edge. There was a time when people thought that to cure the body of disease, you should drain off a few pints of blood. Just because something is thought to be true, it doesn't mean it IS true.

As far as respecting opinions is concerned, I don't respect all opinions that are different from my own. There are people who believe that the color of one's skin makes a difference in determining one's value to society. I don't, nor will I ever, respect the opinion of racist assholes like that. Nor will I ever respect the opinions of homophobes, war-mongers, misogynists, people who push their own religions on others, etc.

The reason why your post garnered so much animosity is that you, like the flat-earthers of long ago, are offering an opinion rooted in ignorance. You admitted in your original post that you are absent of expert knowledge on the subject of guitars, yet you than went on at length piling bad information upon bad information and you had the incredible arrogance to present it as a "guide" when you're clearly not qualified to be writing a guide on the subject.

Here some more advice to you guys.. because
some of you need it. Just because some one has
a different point of view then yourself don’t gang
up and bash the person

This is a board where people of all levels come for information. It would have been irresponsible for the knowledgeable people who frequent these boards to let your original post stand unchallenged given the vast amount of bad information and bad advice it contained. What you call bashing, the rest of us would call damage control.

If you don't know anything about cars, you shouldn't tell your mechanic how to fix your engine. If you don't know anything about electricity, you shouldn't tell someone how to wire their house. And if you don't know anything about guitars, you shouldn't be giving advice on how to buy one.
 
Yo Happyguy. Your misinformed arrogance has progressed to a level that verges on paranoia. Have you ever heard of Okkam's razor? This is a scientific principle which states, simply, that until proven otherwise, the simplest explanation for any phenomenon which doesn't contradict any of the known facts is the correct one. OK, you have published a guide for the entry-level guitar buyer on a forum frequented by professional and semiprofessional guitarists and luthiers, and not a single one of them agrees with anything you have said, except that some cheap guitars are OK.

Now, which is more likely? 1. There is a conspiracy of guitar dealers and luthiers sending each other a bunch of emails to make sure your post gets trashed, and you are discredited, even though you are correct, so that they can save their businesses from their customer base finding out the truth of what you say. Or... 2. You are wrong.

The biggest problem with your post isn't your wealth of misinformation. It's your attitude, which simply stated, is-"This is my opinion, and it's a fact. You can disagree if you want to, and that's OK, but either you are wrong or you have ulterior motives for giving bad advice." Unfortunately, that attitude makes it impossible for you to figure out that you are wrong...ever. Guess what? I know a lot of people on this board, some of them personally. You haven't been talking to "so called" experts, you've been talking to real ones. Golly, if you accepted the idea that you could be wrong, you might learn something, but that would involve the painful realization that you have learned so much less than you could have over many years. The poster above is essentially correct. You do not appear qualified to give advice on this subject. Why don't you try asking for some?-Richie
 
Hello friends,

I would like to share my experiences with guitars. The majority of cheap guitars do not play as good as the expensive guitars. There are many reasons for this. Most of these differences are in the dimensions. I believe that these differences are created on purpose by the manufacturers. Why would the manufacturer give you a cheap guitar that plays as well as their expensive guitar? If the manufacturer made both a guitar from cheap materials and a guitar expensive materials with the exact same dimensions, I think you would be hard pressed to tell them apart in a blind test, playability wise. That will never happen. ;) If the manufacturer did this, you could easily upgrade your cheap guitar with better electronics and have a guitar that plays as well and sounds close to the expensive guitar. The manufacturer wants you to buy a whole new guitar when you decide to upgrade.

Cheap guitars tend to have a narrower neck. 1/8" makes a big difference. The standard width at the nut for an expensive guitar is 1 11/16" +. Most cheap guitars fall short here. The narrow neck on cheap guitars creates a problem when trying to play open chords cleanly because the fingers have no room.

The neck profile is another problem with the cheap guitars. We are talking about the shape of the back of the neck where your fretting hand's thumb will rest. Expensive guitars have a comfortable neck profile. Some cheap guitars do too but it's not as common as with the expensive guitars.

Cheap guitars sometimes have a thick finish on the neck which can cause friction between your skin and the neck. This can slow you down.

Cheap guitars usually have ok to poor fret jobs. The width, height, profile (shape), and polish of the frets has a great effect on the playing comfort of a guitar. The level of frets in respect to each other also determines if the action (string height from fingerboard) can be set low for players who like it that way. If one fret is higher than another, the strings will rattle or buzz on the high fret.

The fingerboard radius affects the playability of a guitar too. If the radius is too curved, the guitar might not play well when bending strings. Maybe the strings will touch higher frets while bending. If it's too flat, the guitar might not play well when fretting barre chords. Your fingers naturally curve when barring chords.

The setup is another difference in the cheap and expensive guitar. Cheap guitars almost always have plastic nuts and saddles. These parts usually aren't given much detail during the cheap guitar setup, if any at all. The spacing of the strings slots, the depth of the slots, the angle of the slots, the height of the part, the width of the part, and the fit of these parts to the wood parts will affect how the guitar plays and how accurate the intonation is. Cheap guitars normally do not have a good setup from the manufacturer.

The neck angle will determine if the string action can be set properly. If the neck is angled back too much, toward the player, the strings can buzz when trying to achieve desired string action. If the neck is angled too far away from the player, the bridge might not be capable of being adjusted low enough for desired string action.

These are the most obvious differences in playability between cheap and expensive guitars. There are also differences in sound, stability, and cosmetics. I won't go too deeply into these differences in this post but i would like to touch on them. The construction tolerances of the guitar and it's hardware will determine how stable the guitar is. If the neck pocket and neck heel don't fit really well, the neck could shift enough to foul up a setup. This can also determine the clarity and sustain of the guitar. If the frets aren't properly seated, the strings could begin buzzing, seemingly out of nowhere. The quality of the pickups will determine how good your guitar sounds, assuming that the guitar is well constructed, and the setup is in order. If the hardware is constructed of cheap metals, these parts could be unreliable in the long run. Also, lighter woods won't sustain as much abuse as harder woods.



Deeply,

The Big Red Hot Dog
 
I'm willing to lay odds that HappyBoy and HotDog are the same guy.
 
I'm willing to lay odds that HappyBoy and HotDog are the same guy.

You might be on to something. And if they are, I'd bet they're both somebody else... I just haven't been around here long enough to guess who.
 
Hello again friends,

I would also like to say that beginner guitar players will not be able to feel these differences in cheap and expensive guitars. Most shops will sell whatever they can to new guitar players and will not even setup the guitars properly before they leave the store. These shops exist to make money. These shops should know what they are selling and explain to customers what they are getting. How many shops have ever explained to you the differences in guitar construction, dimensions, pickup types, hardware, or setup details? Manufacturers should provide dimensions and specifications for shops and customers for reference but many do not. Buying a guitar is a crap shoot for the beginner guitar player. He has no previous frame of reference for comparison. Guitar players are left to do their own research on guitars.



Deeply,

The Big Red Hot Dog
 
Hello JTC111,

I speak the truth only to help my new friends here. No one discusses dimensions and construction details when talking about guitars. It is very important to know these things.



Yours,

The Big Red Hot Dog
 
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