2008 Martin D28 - horrible resonances

  • Thread starter Thread starter Monkey Allen
  • Start date Start date
Nah, nothing more until I've fixed it. I've got some free time in 2 more weeks. (y)
 
In the context of actually playing a piece of music, one would be hard-pressed to notice what you are obsessing over.
 
Monkey Allen said:
Here's a couple of files. To keep it very simple I struck a single note...the C, 1st fret B string. I did this because over time I have narrowed the problem down to this note as the main offender. Not the only offender...but the main offender. For example, the C# note, 2nd fret B string has no such problem. The open B string has no such problem.

A word on the 2 examples (same guitar, same recording):

Guitar A - Only the note in question played, no EQ or manipulation
Guitar B - Only the note in question played but at the start of the clip I have a narrow Q at 796hz (note is G5) in place to reduce the problem by 15db. As the clip plays I gradually reintroduce the problem by slowly bring up the 15db back to 0 so the clip is back to normal. Later in the clip I reduce that 796hz again by -15db and then reintroduce it again.

So the problem I am hearing is at 796hz. There is an "overtone" (or whatever you want to call it) ringing a G5 note. This is 100% not the room or the microphone or anything else like that. It comes directly from the guitar. It is baked into the guitar. This is what the naked ear hears. As you can imagine...playing any chord with that 1st fret B string note involved creates complex problems. I hope and trust you can hear the problem just from striking the single note itself as in the examples. Since an acoustic guitar produces a very complex combination of sounds...when that C note is part of a chord it creates big problems. I can EQ the problem away to some extent at 796hz when striking the single note...but when the problem is part of chords...this complex combo of strings, notes and sounds it is not easy to get rid of.

I guess I'd recommend headphones for this with a suitable volume. But good speakers will show it too.
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I'm not in front of my home computer and wouldn't trust the headset I have here for anything approaching critical listening, but I'll try to listen in the next couple days after work some night.
 
For years, whenever I re-string any of my acoustic guitars I push the string through the turn post and cut the string 3" beyond the turn post. Push the string back by 2-1/2" and begin winding. Too few wraps round the turn post can be problematic....or so I've learned (on my own) and read. Works for me.

"non invasive way to curb some of the open string overtones, without using a damper type device is to wrap more string around the tuning post... so that the angle from the nut to the tuner is more severe."

YMMV

I re-string my electric guitars in the same manner.
 
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Monkey Allen said:
So the problem I am hearing is at 796hz. There is an "overtone" (or whatever you want to call it) ringing a G5 note. This is 100% not the room or the microphone or anything else like that. It comes directly from the guitar. It is baked into the guitar. This is what the naked ear hears. As you can imagine...playing any chord with that 1st fret B string note involved creates complex problems. I hope and trust you can hear the problem just from striking the single note itself as in the examples. Since an acoustic guitar produces a very complex combination of sounds...when that C note is part of a chord it creates big problems. I can EQ the problem away to some extent at 796hz when striking the single note...but when the problem is part of chords...this complex combo of strings, notes and sounds it is not easy to get rid of.
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Is there any way you CAN record a chord with that C note in it that also has this resonance?

Guitars are just resonant beasts, listening to this solo'd, it's not really jumping out at me as problematic (though, it also sounds nothing like the slight resonance I heard in the video of someone else linked where I do think that was just the slightest hint of fret buzz on one note that wasn't fret perfectly). Maybe this would sound wrong to me in the context of a few more notes, but on its own, it sounds... fine?

A C note having a G overtone is I suppose a little unusual, the 3rd or 5th would be more typical, but... I suppose another thing worth trying is play that note while explicitly muting the open G string below it, just to rule out a sympathetic vibration of that open G helping to bring out the 4th overtone of the C. This probably isn't your issue, unless the chords you're playing all happen to not involve your G string which seems unlikely, but in the name of science...
 
DrewPeterson7 said:
Is there any way you CAN record a chord with that C note in it that also has this resonance?

Guitars are just resonant beasts, listening to this solo'd, it's not really jumping out at me as problematic (though, it also sounds nothing like the slight resonance I heard in the video of someone else linked where I do think that was just the slightest hint of fret buzz on one note that wasn't fret perfectly). Maybe this would sound wrong to me in the context of a few more notes, but on its own, it sounds... fine?

A C note having a G overtone is I suppose a little unusual, the 3rd or 5th would be more typical, but... I suppose another thing worth trying is play that note while explicitly muting the open G string below it, just to rule out a sympathetic vibration of that open G helping to bring out the 4th overtone of the C. This probably isn't your issue, unless the chords you're playing all happen to not involve your G string which seems unlikely, but in the name of science...
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a) I am pretty sure I did that a year ago and posted them to the thread. Recording chords that is.
b) If it doesn't jump out at you as problematic that's ok. It is though. That's why I started the thread.
c) If you heard a 'slight resonance' in the video (the one I linked) and think it's fret buzz then that's ok too. You're just not hearing what I'm hearing.
d) I did mute the open G string. Said that some posts ago.

I think it's fair to say it's difficult for anyone to appreciate the nature of the issue...unless you're me. Coz I have the actual guitar in my hands. In person. It's not ok, it's not normal or fine etc. I've used a bunch of words to explain what is going on. I've posted audio clips and shown some videos. Everyone else is interpreting words and listening to bits of sound and theorizing on what they think I mean or what they think they hear. So we aren't running a perfect workshop here. I believe I started the thread way back when on the off chance someone would know exactly what I mean and exactly how to treat the issue. That hasn't happened. And that's ok.

Leave it with me. I'll get around to it. Probably just needs a new nut and saddle and a good thorough setup.
 
Monkey Allen said:
a) I am pretty sure I did that a year ago and posted them to the thread. Recording chords that is.
b) If it doesn't jump out at you as problematic that's ok. It is though. That's why I started the thread.
c) If you heard a 'slight resonance' in the video (the one I linked) and think it's fret buzz then that's ok too. You're just not hearing what I'm hearing.
d) I did mute the open G string. Said that some posts ago.

I think it's fair to say it's difficult for anyone to appreciate the nature of the issue...unless you're me. Coz I have the actual guitar in my hands. In person. It's not ok, it's not normal or fine etc. I've used a bunch of words to explain what is going on. I've posted audio clips and shown some videos. Everyone else is interpreting words and listening to bits of sound and theorizing on what they think I mean or what they think they hear. So we aren't running a perfect workshop here. I believe I started the thread way back when on the off chance someone would know exactly what I mean and exactly how to treat the issue. That hasn't happened. And that's ok.

Leave it with me. I'll get around to it. Probably just needs a new nut and saddle and a good thorough setup.
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Well - I don’t know what to say that won’t sound bad - but almost all us hear what you are talking about - and if it’s nut resonance that you are hearing you have an easy fix - why keep posting about it? - the thing is it’s very slight - and not something that would come into a recording - so why haven’t you got a new nut and setup?
 
Monkey Allen said:
a) I am pretty sure I did that a year ago and posted them to the thread. Recording chords that is.
b) If it doesn't jump out at you as problematic that's ok. It is though. That's why I started the thread.
c) If you heard a 'slight resonance' in the video (the one I linked) and think it's fret buzz then that's ok too. You're just not hearing what I'm hearing.
d) I did mute the open G string. Said that some posts ago.

I think it's fair to say it's difficult for anyone to appreciate the nature of the issue...unless you're me. Coz I have the actual guitar in my hands. In person. It's not ok, it's not normal or fine etc. I've used a bunch of words to explain what is going on. I've posted audio clips and shown some videos. Everyone else is interpreting words and listening to bits of sound and theorizing on what they think I mean or what they think they hear. So we aren't running a perfect workshop here. I believe I started the thread way back when on the off chance someone would know exactly what I mean and exactly how to treat the issue. That hasn't happened. And that's ok.

Leave it with me. I'll get around to it. Probably just needs a new nut and saddle and a good thorough setup.
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You should have pointed us to that clip weeks ago.
:LOL:


So, there IS a little bit of perceptible resonance in thay chord that isn't really audible elsewhere. It's probably more obtrusive to you tan to anyone else, if it helps - I can hear what you're talking about, sort of an additional build up of energy on the Am chord, but it's also not really obtrusive and I'm not sure someone would latch onto that as sounding bad unless you pointed it out.

I'm also not sure I can think of an obvious cause, especially since you're saying two of your guitars do this?
 
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