What do commercial artists use?
- Thread starter ThaArtist
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bigwillz24
New member
Man I do ALOT of rap music and any doubled voice you are hearing is EXACTLY like Mr. Gerst told you.
It's no secret, no special processor, no nothing just another track with the rapper repeating the word he wants emphasized in the song.
After that you mix it the two or three vocals together and bam the secrets out.
50 takes about 3 passes on vocals to make him sound like that.
1 pass he raps straight through.
2nd pass he raps straight through again probably with a differant timber in his voice.
3rd pass he emphasizes the words he wants you to hear.
thats it...
It's no secret, no special processor, no nothing just another track with the rapper repeating the word he wants emphasized in the song.
After that you mix it the two or three vocals together and bam the secrets out.
50 takes about 3 passes on vocals to make him sound like that.
1 pass he raps straight through.
2nd pass he raps straight through again probably with a differant timber in his voice.
3rd pass he emphasizes the words he wants you to hear.
thats it...
noisewreck
New member
I believe Waves Doubler can do that. You can also do stuff like this with an Eventide Ultraharmoniser or Digitech Vocalist, I believe. I don't have any of the above. You can also do that manually. Just copy the vocal track twice, cut everything else except the word that you want doubled from the copies. Pitch shift one up, and the other down. Pan one hard left, the other hard right, and manually nudge them forward a bit. Mix them to taste. Done.LordSire said:
The posting a clip bit. Well obviously 4 pages into this discussion you're still not satisfied with the answers you're getting. So, I figure if you ask a specific question, and give a specific example, someone with better ears and experience than you would be able to give a good answer
{rant alert}
Why do people automatically think that it's always some magic effect box or plugin or worse, a preset on a plugin that's involved or has to be used? Why do people automatically assume that there is some complicated voodoo involved? In my experience, and not just music, but in many fields, the answers and solutions are actually far more simple than people want to accept and realize.
{rant alert off}
noisewreck
New member
Rip the tracks from CDs. Any pro level wave editor should be able to do this no sweat. Trim what you've ripped in the audio editor just to the part where there is that "doubling". Save the new .wav. Convert to MP3. Post. If you need someone to host it for you, once you've done the MP3s, PM me. I should be able to spare 2-3MB on my website.LordSire said:
I've recorded rap artists for years and it is commonplace for them to double particular words or phrases for additional emphasis. No big secret at all--what you hear is what they did.
Harvey Gerst just might be on the right track!
Ok Harv. You are definitely in the direct area. Since you ARE talking about a TECHNIQUE used in the actual recording process; that many "local" artists, producers, and even engineers that MAKE rap locally, obviously dont know about.
I am VERY aware of that technique. The one you spoke on about the "posse" track. Or the backround vocals. We also call it the ad lib track. There are usually a minimum of three, to as many as necessary, of these tracks taken on many, if not all known rap songs today.
One of these "ad lib" tracks; would be the artist repeating in unison, only the ENDS of sentences, or some specific words or phrases WITHIN the sentences, of each line. That specific take is for energy and to evoke a mood through enunciation. To make you take a sort of feeling or relation to whats being said, by "doubling" certain situations in your lyrics, for a stress factor. i.e
"like your right hand to God, LORDSIRE, THE TRUTH!"
FEEL that "LordSire". HEAR that "The Truth". STRESS the words that i want to stand out. Thats how you evoke emotion in your verses.
The TRUE ad lib track, is just that....its that "surreal", or even sometimes boisterous (see Lil' Jon or Young Jeezy) set of "yeahs" and "uh-huh's"; or even for a THIRD time, with the same ends lf lines or stresspoints as before. (I believe those are the triple tracks you speak of). For all that would like to know the "formula", or some basic steps to take, to what's being done as a regular practice, for laying or recording your vocals in todays hip-hop industry; there it is. Basic. Refer someone to this thread if they happen to ask. Now mixing those well, into the mix, is a BITCH! (Not to toot my own horn) But i have NO PROBLEMZ with those; at all.
Now....................If you DELETE, or MUTE ALL those "backround tracks", ad-lib tracks, and/or "posse" tracks: And LEAVE the main lead vocal track. On that track ALONE; there is a distinct "doubled" track that sits under the lead but is simultaneously, or just "hairs" off, THAT effect, in MOST professional situations, is a replicated version of that exact lead vocal. THATS the effect ive been talking about.
Now my ears can dignify that it is NOT a seperate vocal track taken. But, with tryng effects like chorus, delay, and echo, i dont get it.
Ok Harv. You are definitely in the direct area. Since you ARE talking about a TECHNIQUE used in the actual recording process; that many "local" artists, producers, and even engineers that MAKE rap locally, obviously dont know about.
I am VERY aware of that technique. The one you spoke on about the "posse" track. Or the backround vocals. We also call it the ad lib track. There are usually a minimum of three, to as many as necessary, of these tracks taken on many, if not all known rap songs today.
One of these "ad lib" tracks; would be the artist repeating in unison, only the ENDS of sentences, or some specific words or phrases WITHIN the sentences, of each line. That specific take is for energy and to evoke a mood through enunciation. To make you take a sort of feeling or relation to whats being said, by "doubling" certain situations in your lyrics, for a stress factor. i.e
"like your right hand to God, LORDSIRE, THE TRUTH!"
FEEL that "LordSire". HEAR that "The Truth". STRESS the words that i want to stand out. Thats how you evoke emotion in your verses.
The TRUE ad lib track, is just that....its that "surreal", or even sometimes boisterous (see Lil' Jon or Young Jeezy) set of "yeahs" and "uh-huh's"; or even for a THIRD time, with the same ends lf lines or stresspoints as before. (I believe those are the triple tracks you speak of). For all that would like to know the "formula", or some basic steps to take, to what's being done as a regular practice, for laying or recording your vocals in todays hip-hop industry; there it is. Basic. Refer someone to this thread if they happen to ask. Now mixing those well, into the mix, is a BITCH! (Not to toot my own horn) But i have NO PROBLEMZ with those; at all.
Now....................If you DELETE, or MUTE ALL those "backround tracks", ad-lib tracks, and/or "posse" tracks: And LEAVE the main lead vocal track. On that track ALONE; there is a distinct "doubled" track that sits under the lead but is simultaneously, or just "hairs" off, THAT effect, in MOST professional situations, is a replicated version of that exact lead vocal. THATS the effect ive been talking about.
Now my ears can dignify that it is NOT a seperate vocal track taken. But, with tryng effects like chorus, delay, and echo, i dont get it.
bigwillz24
New member
LordSire said:
Man you take the long way around to ask a simple question...
That effect is delay...
This is how you get the lil jon sound you speak of...
One way is to have the rapper(s) double the track over and over and over again not just two or three more like twenty or thirty now you have a whole group saying whatever you want back to you...
For a lil jon main vocal (mind you there is more than one way to skin a cat) is to use a multitap delay unit, run the vocal through it and tap the tempo. For added depth you can take the direct sound from the delay and run it through a reverb... instant lil jon.
i was typing that last response before you responded
OK. I can see now were all on the same playing field! I didnt expect a response so quick to my "what is that?" post.
No more ranting. I said that already. Mainly because im talking to people who are familiar with rap music. And at first, i guess i was being misunderstood by people who were responding, with every other thing besides a specific process, procedure, or technique that applies to RAP vocals.
If i was reading a thread about any of these things on rock and roll , i wouldnt even post. No matter what experience or knowledge i have on gear, specs, etc. Because i dont know NOTHING about what are some procedures for recording "industry standard" vocals (or ANYTHING) for rock and roll. Why? I dont listen to it, AT ALL!
OK. I can see now were all on the same playing field! I didnt expect a response so quick to my "what is that?" post.
No more ranting. I said that already. Mainly because im talking to people who are familiar with rap music. And at first, i guess i was being misunderstood by people who were responding, with every other thing besides a specific process, procedure, or technique that applies to RAP vocals.
If i was reading a thread about any of these things on rock and roll , i wouldnt even post. No matter what experience or knowledge i have on gear, specs, etc. Because i dont know NOTHING about what are some procedures for recording "industry standard" vocals (or ANYTHING) for rock and roll. Why? I dont listen to it, AT ALL!
hey willz
If you check the posts from the beginning; I DID ask it like that, fam. I was being answered with SO many different things other than what you two are on.
It's refreshing!
Because no matter how many LONG threads i posted, that crap was GETTING on my nerves, too! Feel me?! I messed up and called something a secret or trick, and everybody got "sensitive" on me.
LOOK! Somebody even gave me a red chiclet because of this damn thread; and it wasnt even my thread! I guess thats what i get. At least i apologized fo "jumpin' on Artists' toes.
I gotta' take my cryin ass friend home. He gotta SLEEP! I'll be back. (Probably to many's dismay)
If you check the posts from the beginning; I DID ask it like that, fam. I was being answered with SO many different things other than what you two are on.
It's refreshing!
Because no matter how many LONG threads i posted, that crap was GETTING on my nerves, too! Feel me?! I messed up and called something a secret or trick, and everybody got "sensitive" on me.
LOOK! Somebody even gave me a red chiclet because of this damn thread; and it wasnt even my thread! I guess thats what i get. At least i apologized fo "jumpin' on Artists' toes.
I gotta' take my cryin ass friend home. He gotta SLEEP! I'll be back. (Probably to many's dismay)
bigwillz24
New member
LordSire said:
Uhmm you can learn a lot from a rock n roll engineer... Don't dismiss anyone because they don't particulary like rap. Whether you know it or not the same guy that mixes rock and jazz and country is the same guy mixing rap even though he\she might not like it.
The "formulas" for mixing rap are not that differant.
Hell some of them have more knowledge than those who "specialize" in one genre of music in this case rap.
Willz?
Are you familiar with cool edit? Is it possible to use sound forge's, or cool edit's delay and get that effect, WITHOUT the flangey, metallic echo that it leaves off?
And where were you when i was being stoned, tortured, and fed to the lions for being an a$$hole? I coulda' used you, my dude. The "long" way as you put it, made me lose a lot of time ive coulda been on the music, Y'know? I wasnt tryin' to gain online enemies. But i am blunt. Speakin of, i NEED one
Are you familiar with cool edit? Is it possible to use sound forge's, or cool edit's delay and get that effect, WITHOUT the flangey, metallic echo that it leaves off?
And where were you when i was being stoned, tortured, and fed to the lions for being an a$$hole? I coulda' used you, my dude.
The "long" way as you put it, made me lose a lot of time ive coulda been on the music, Y'know? I wasnt tryin' to gain online enemies. But i am blunt. Speakin of, i NEED oneYou are right
I understand all that. Some of my good friends work on rock and roll. I wasnt saying they have to like it. But they do have to have some sort of familiarity with the music; Y'know? That's exactly what i was sayin; shit: I dont like MOST of it my damn self! But those same r n r engineers you speak of, do just that, work on rap music: MIX rap music. Even if they dont like it; they are familiar with it
Man; I said THAT, and people started to treat me like i was RAWJAW??!! It's just a simple fact. I even let cats know i wasnt meaning anything about it. Nothin' personal. It's just a simple fact. You have to be familiar with something, to UNDERSTAND or KNOW anything. I got back from work, and checked the thread; was like damn!
I understand all that. Some of my good friends work on rock and roll. I wasnt saying they have to like it. But they do have to have some sort of familiarity with the music; Y'know? That's exactly what i was sayin; shit: I dont like MOST of it my damn self! But those same r n r engineers you speak of, do just that, work on rap music: MIX rap music. Even if they dont like it; they are familiar with it
Man; I said THAT, and people started to treat me like i was RAWJAW??!! It's just a simple fact. I even let cats know i wasnt meaning anything about it. Nothin' personal. It's just a simple fact. You have to be familiar with something, to UNDERSTAND or KNOW anything. I got back from work, and checked the thread; was like damn!
bigwillz24
New member
LordSire said:
Not really, I use Cubase...
LordSire said:
I would think so... There are folks who know the program way more than I do who could tell in depth.
LordSire said:
Probally busy with something besides an internet forum...
LordSire said:I coulda' used you, my dude.
I'm sure you have many... Most of the guys here that are trying to help you are the same way... BLUNT. Even still most of the answers they gave you were on point. I'm still learning alot of this shit too. Guess who I'm learning it from? The same guys that where trying to answer your question.
Good luck with your recording.
Hmmm, I've only read about the first few pages of this thread, but has anyone stated the obvious???
...I mean, I'm pretty sure that "fat vocal" can be done as simple as this :
- Get your vocal-trak down.
- Make a copy of it.
- Nudge the copy forwards (or backwards for that matter) 4-5-6-7ms, and watch out for phasing issues.
- Turn the volume down a little on both tracks.
- Voila... ???
...I mean, I'm pretty sure that "fat vocal" can be done as simple as this :
- Get your vocal-trak down.
- Make a copy of it.
- Nudge the copy forwards (or backwards for that matter) 4-5-6-7ms, and watch out for phasing issues.
- Turn the volume down a little on both tracks.
- Voila... ???
Harvey Gerst
New member
As someone mentioned, a short single slapback delay may be what you're hearing and there are some tricks there that can be used. Feed the delayed only signal back to a separate track, and eq the shit out of it, rolling off the bottom end to add some sheen.
You can also "ride the fader" as the track plays, adding emphasis to some of the phrases with the delay. Rap/hiphop is a living breathing "now" genre; actually moving the faders in time to the rhythm can put a lotta life into a track.
You can also "ride the fader" as the track plays, adding emphasis to some of the phrases with the delay. Rap/hiphop is a living breathing "now" genre; actually moving the faders in time to the rhythm can put a lotta life into a track.
that depends
The answers were on point; but for MOST, only if i was asking a different question. As you can very well see, you, harvey, and i think cloneboy were the only ones in the direct "playing field". VOCALS. Not about techniques for bass drums, or mixing solutions for ANYTHING instrumental. Nor about the specs of my room. (nothing against you, Falk). Because regardless of how "on point" they may have been with a knowledgable answer; As you now see, they couldnt be answers to MY question, because YOU guys are providing that. Besides the ones i just named, NO ONE made mention of ANYTHING CLOSE to what you guys are talking about. (Nothing personal)
Even still, I believe a lot of the stuff that WAS told, was highly useful. Not pertinent, but useful nonetheless.
bigwillz24 said:
The answers were on point; but for MOST, only if i was asking a different question. As you can very well see, you, harvey, and i think cloneboy were the only ones in the direct "playing field". VOCALS. Not about techniques for bass drums, or mixing solutions for ANYTHING instrumental. Nor about the specs of my room. (nothing against you, Falk). Because regardless of how "on point" they may have been with a knowledgable answer; As you now see, they couldnt be answers to MY question, because YOU guys are providing that. Besides the ones i just named, NO ONE made mention of ANYTHING CLOSE to what you guys are talking about. (Nothing personal)
Even still, I believe a lot of the stuff that WAS told, was highly useful. Not pertinent, but useful nonetheless.