warm Overhead mics, don't like a "sharp" sound...?

[chessrock]

Guys, I think Fletcher was refering specifically to the following quote:

......whats THE nicest pair of Overheads you can get (money isn't an issue)

. . . in which case, I think it was a perfectly legitimate resonse to question why people would be talking about Marshall MXL's and similar budget mics.

Now, in Harvey & Sonusman's defense, this may not be the ideal forum to pose such a question . . . but there is something to be said for at least trying to offer relevent, informed answers to the questions posed.

That said, I certainly don't see anything wrong with pointing the guy in certain directions, whether or not you have experience. In other words, I don't think someone has to have years of experience with every mic ever made to make a general statement like: "Ribbon mics have a tendency to handle high frequency transients in a smoother, mellower manner, so you might also want to consider a ribbon of some sort for your purposes." Expand your horizons a little. That's a perfectly legitimate answer regardless of one's real world experience, one might think.

 

[Harvey Gerst]

I don't think someone has to have years of experience with every mic ever made to make a general statement like: "Ribbon mics have a tendency to handle high frequency transients in a smoother, mellower manner, so you might also want to consider a ribbon of some sort for your purposes." Expand your horizons a little. That's a perfectly legitimate answer regardless of one's real world experience, one might think.

Very true, Chessrock, but there are other ways to accomplish that goal, even with a pair of MXL 603's. For example, the 7kHz peak that causes the comments about them being "too bright"? That's mainly an on-axis peak. Tame it by not aiming the mics directly at the cymbals. Or put a small felt pad directly in front of the mics. Pull the mics back a bit. Aim them more towards the toms. Or put in a small (-4 to -6dB) 7kHz notch, using your EQ.

Sometimes you can solve problems by throwing more money at the problem, but often, all it takes is a new way of looking at a situation and how to work around it. I have 10 or 15 different pairs of mics I can put up for overheads - usually any pair will work fine, if I place them correctly.

Yeah, it takes more time if you don't have the best mics available, but doesn't recording at home do just that? Gives you more time to experiment?

 

[DJL]

<snip>
A lot of people on the homerecording boards have bought into the "hype" that anybody can make a good "commercial-sounding" recording in their home with just a few hundred dollars worth of the new "flavor of the month" equipment
<snip>

Geez, I wonder who likes using the Neumann name a lot while talking about SP mics and likes leading people into believing cheap Chinese made budget mics are as good as the top name brand mics.

 

[JohnnyMan]

Harvey,

What you described is exactly my situation: low budget, no expectations of releasing anything that will even remotely approach “the charts”, and I’m doing it for the love of making music and recording. That is why I am here reading these posts – I do not have much recording experience and I’m trying to soak up as much knowledge and tips and tricks as I can. I especially enjoy hearing what successes others have had using “budget” gear. Via recommendations from this BBS, I purchased the M-Audio DMP3 mic pre, RNC compressor, and the MXL V67G (from suggestions from the Big Thread). Will I ever own a U47? Maybe, but today I need to work with what I have and get the best from my current "budget" equipment.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge in a way that the hobby home recordists can use.

John

 

[DJL]

It's not going to stop until you're literally thrown right-out of here, right DJL?

No... I made that comment because I believe it's part of the problem... I get the feeling you don't think so? I don't want to drag this out or trash the thread... so please feel free to PM me if you wish to talk more about it. Thanks

 

[Phyl]

No... I made that comment because I believe it's part of the problem... I get the feeling you don't think so? I don't want to drag this out or trash the thread... so please feel free to PM me if you wish to talk more about it. Thanks

I took the liberty of PMing Dragon and his son since you seem to be beyond reason.

Sorry to say it Don, but I think CrazyDoc hit it on the head. I've known several people suffering from OCD and you are a textbook example.

 

[earworm]

cool posts, and nice that we're starting another internet war


i'm on a budget like most people here, but i do have some expierience, and did work with a bunch of mics,,,hell, i'm still young, and i'm real curious about ribbon mics, i read about them, thats all,
thats the beauty of being an amateur recorder....its soooo exciting to start using "something new"

i might use some numan mics in my life, i definately intend to,
no matter what happens, i'll always try to record things....and if things go well, i might have some real nice mics in a year or ten

always think positive !

true, its all about HOW you use the mics, but i need a starting point, right?
i worked with overhead mics live on stages and in other studios, i mean, in REAL studios, not my bedroom,
but i never had the chanse to work with those mics dayly and even sleep with them...thats why i'm not familiar with the sound of most of them...


think i'll post some links in the mp3 clinic this month,,,maybe some one 'd like to check out what i recorded this summer....

 

[DJL]

I took the liberty of PMing Dragon and his son since you seem to be beyond reason.

Sorry to say it Don, but I think CrazyDoc hit it on the head. I've known several people suffering from OCD and you are a textbook example.

You insult me and want me to believe your sorry.... I don't think so. Anyway, it looks like we need to talk the problem Harvey posted in this thread above. So you don't think part of the problem Harvey was talking about here is caused by leading others into believing cheap Chinese made budget mics are as good as the top name brand mics?

earworm... Nuemann U87's are nice warm LDC overhead mics IMO.

 

[noisedude]

earworm asked two questions - what the best were (tongue in cheek) and then what some good cheaper-end ones were. People were answering both questions.

Harvey - good point man, you know a really inexperienced engineer when they listen to their Behringer and Phonic-made recordings and actually think they sound 'pro'. At least I have the decency to own up to being crap!

 

[chessrock]

Very true, Chessrock, but there are other ways to accomplish that goal, even with a pair of MXL 603's. For example, the 7kHz peak that causes the comments about them being "too bright"? That's mainly an on-axis peak.

That's a really good point, and I agree that many people get a little lazy, myself included, and don't necessarily exhaust all of their resources (most importnat being creativity) in order to come up with alternate solutions.

I just happen to think there's more to this question -- just a suspicioun, and that his true answer might have something to do with the transient response of the mics he's used to, and particularly transients that contain a lot of high frequencies?

 

[Harvey Gerst]

earworm asked two questions - what the best were (tongue in cheek) and then what some good cheaper-end ones were. People were answering both questions.

Harvey - good point man, you know a really inexperienced engineer when they listen to their Behringer and Phonic-made recordings and actually think they sound 'pro'. At least I have the decency to own up to being crap!

The funny thing is that with a really experienced engineer, when they listen to their Neve and Neumann-made recordings, they still actually think they sound like crap.

 

[coplinger]

Very true, Chessrock, but there are other ways to accomplish that goal, even with a pair of MXL 603's. For example, the 7kHz peak that causes the comments about them being "too bright"? That's mainly an on-axis peak. Tame it by not aiming the mics directly at the cymbals. Or put a small felt pad directly in front of the mics. Pull the mics back a bit. Aim them more towards the toms. Or put in a small (-4 to -6dB) 7kHz notch, using your EQ.

You know, I have thought about trying them more off-axis, but never considered the felt pad thing. does the little windscreen that comes with them work for this, or does it take something more dense?

 

[Harvey Gerst]

You know, I have thought about trying them more off-axis, but never considered the felt pad thing. does the little windscreen that comes with them work for this, or does it take something more dense?

Try it. If it's not enough, try a 1/4" circle of felt on the front grill and use the foam wind screen to hold it in place. Or, try a couple of thin felt strips arranged in an "X". Hold them on with a rubber band.

 

[noisedude]

The funny thing is that with a really experienced engineer, when they listen to their Neve and Neumann-made recordings, they still actually think they sound like crap.

Ha! So crapness may be closer to pro than I thought!!

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Ha! So crapness may be closer to pro than I thought!!

Maybe the realization that given another chance, you could do it better, makes you closer to thinking like a pro. Most pros that I know would love to redo their old stuff. They hear a lot of stuff that we don't.

If you ask them which of their albums is their favorite, most of the time, the answer will be "none of them".

 

[earworm]

i heard that they sell monkeys that do all the work for you,
so you can just sit in your easychair and command the animal:
GIVE ME A PRO SOUND !
and i heard it works pretty fine, gonna get me a monkey for newyear i think

 

[mrface2112]

well, first off, i wasn't replying to the part of the question Fletcher quoted--i have no experience with the "uber" mics. I was leaving that up to those who have indeed had experience with the MGs, neumanns, royers, etc.

rather, i was replying to the "money's an issue" portion of the question, which i *do* have experience with. no sense saying "km84's are the shit" when i don't really know that first-hand, eh?


so, in all fairness, some of the "brightness" in my 603's is easily attributed to my room. it's NOT good. it DOES need work. i know that--it's a liability, and one i have to work around all the while i address it. i'm a systems engineer during the day, which often quite frankly means 12+ hour workdays, so i'm lucky to get a couple hours in my recording space per week. i can spend my very limited time tweaking my room, or i can spend it recording. i know which i'd rather do. and knowing that it's a liability, i'm able to compensate for it pretty satisfactorily. after all, i'm NOT making recordings that are going to see major (or even indie) label release.

and some of it is easily attributed to the cymbals--i like smaller crashes (instead of 18" gongs), and i have a bunch of Zildjian A's and A Customs. i prefer K's, but haven't had the opportunity or funds to upgrade the A's to K's. i have on the ride (love my K Custom Dark!), but not on the crashes.

however, i *have* tried many different micing positions with the 603's. i have tried the foam windscreens (they make them sound like ass--sorry for the uber-technical description ). i have not tried the felt, but i figure that'll be even more of what i didn't like about the windscreens. i've gotten them as high as they'll go. i've put them underneath the cymbals. i've tried them as room mics instead of overheads. nothing makes the 603's sound very good in my room on my drums with me playing them. way too bright and "trashy".

so i reached for the next "darker" mic in my meager locker, the V67 and it really sounded *very* good. even with my 8ft ceilings. or at least, it sounded very good with respect to recordings coming out of my room. let's keep some frame of reference here.


one day i plan to have a pretty nice space that i've built from scratch. and i *do* plan to have some neumanns and royers (etc) at my disposal. however, that day is not today. i have to deal with my 21x12 rectangular portion of my unfinished basement.

so yes, in some respects, it IS the minor miracle of sound traveling through wire that is influencing my endorsement. but it's also the fact that that's my frame of reference. and it's also the fact that i was addressing what i thought was quite obviously the "lower end of the spectrum" with regards to home recordists recording at home in home spaces.

and quite frankly, anytime i've seen someone ask the "what's the best mics ever for overheads" and then follow it up with "what's the best budget mics for the same thing", you can be fairly certain that they don't have the budget for the former and that they're really fishing for the latter. especially when the thread is "warm overheads". *rolls eyes*


cheers,
wade

 

[noisedude]

i heard that they sell monkeys that do all the work for you,
so you can just sit in your easychair and command the animal:
GIVE ME A PRO SOUND !
and i heard it works pretty fine, gonna get me a monkey for newyear i think

ROFLMAO!!!!

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

I don't want to drag this out or trash the thread... so please feel free to PM me if you wish to talk more about it. Thanks

I don't want to talk about it at all -- I simply want you to knock-off the "forum nazi" schtick - it's getting EXTREMELY tiresome and irritating, and last time I checked, HR.com was not a police state nor was it under martial law..........

 

[geet73]

I don't want to talk about it at all -- I simply want you to knock-off the "forum nazi" schtick - it's getting EXTREMELY tiresome and irritating, and last time I checked, HR.com was not a police state nor under military rule..........

Use that tone around here and the HR.com Gestapo will be throwing you in the oven.