warm Overhead mics, don't like a "sharp" sound...?

[Ronan]

I mostly agree with harveys comments, but I also think its really important to chime in and say "buy some good tools" when it comes to giving home recordist advice.

I think the huge mistake that home recordist make is to buy a lot of crap instead of buying a few quaility tools. The sad thing is that they end up spending lots of money on crap, when for less money they could have some good tools. Many people on this board will post their mic collection and it will have 4 or 5 cheapo chinese mics and not one good mic. You can get one really good mic for less than all those cheap mics. Additionally the mic is the most important tool for a recording engineer!!! Its such a bummer to see some one that has spent $700 on a new plug in and their best LDC cost $139 and they wonder why they can not get the stuff to sound good.

If you have spent more money on your plug in collection than your mic collection you have really shot yourself in the foot.

I am not saying that people need to spend tons of money. I use lots of the big name mics on an almost daily basis, but there are mid range mics from Shure and Audio Technica, etc that are outstanding mics at very reasonable prices. I will avoid bashing particular brands to avoid a battle, but I have tried a lot of the Cheap LDCs and almost all of them could be blown out of the water by mics that cost just a little more money,

 

[Track Rat]

If you have spent more money on your plug in collection than your mic collection you have really shot yourself in the foot.

YOWZAA!! Good post sir.

 

[charger]

I use MXL 603s as my overheads. Like Harvey said, it took me long time to get them positioned, many many recordings I was not happy with, until they finally didn't sound overly bright. Another issue is I have cheap, thin-sounding cymbals, Sabian B8s. Upgrades (Istanbuls) are coming soon, but in the meantime, I've worked around it by getting them pointed less at the cymbals and more at my head. Another thing that really helped my drum sound was adding a room mic about 15' from the drums and compressing the heck out of it. It adds some warmth and boom to the drums. Here's a sample:

 

[patsplat]

I think the huge mistake that home recordist make is to buy a lot of crap instead of buying a few quaility tools. The sad thing is that they end up spending lots of money on crap, when for less money they could have some good tools.

I am not saying that people need to spend tons of money. I use lots of the big name mics on an almost daily basis, but there are mid range mics from Shure and Audio Technica, etc that are outstanding mics at very reasonable prices.

Ok...I'm sort of at this point.I have some SM 57's,a beta 52 and a EV N/D767a.I have no LDC's or SDC's. I will be recording into an Aardvark Q10 and using Samplitude as my DAW app.Mostly hard rock/heavy metal-80's to modern.Some acoustic guitar,real drums,real amps,ect.And sound quality must be pro enough to sell to the general public,off a web site,ect..I want to buy the best tools that I can and the mid range is what I can afford.What Shure and At mics would you recommend to me ?.What is your opinion of Sennheiser mics in this application ?

 

[earworm]

why am i a home recording dude,,,because it takes time to become an engineer,,,,most people don't have the oppurtunity to just buy expensive equipment, when i don't know how a Gate works, or nomatter what kind of equipment, i tend to buy something sheepisch so i can find out how it works..
when that's done i'll go hunt for something Decent,,,
decent it not top of the bill,
thats why i ask;;;; what are the real good mics out there,
and what are the cheap ones that "do a nice job"

i wanna get an idea about both, ,,,and "warm" ? i can just cut all the treble and i won't have a sharp sound i guess,,,,, i'm looking for mics that have a little bit of a warm character.... mics that are a bit warm from nature...
i wanna experiment as much as i can,,,but before i buy anything,,,, i wanna squeez as much information out of you guys as i can

 

[Han]

Well, my Belgium neighbour, it has been said before, ribbon mics are the smoothest and warmest sounding mics. They're also the most fragile mics and have a very low output. So you better take care and use a good pre amp. (and don't blow into a ribbon mic)

A condenser close to hats or cymbals can sound ugly, a ribbon close to hats and/or cymbals will sound a whole lot better.

Ribbons have the nicest of axis response of all mics (so I've learned from Harvey) and many ribbon mics are super or hyper cardioid, which means they will make a great XY, ORTF, DIN or NOS stereo pair.

If you record a loud instrument with much high content like tamborine or a triangle very close to a condenser mic, you'll get an ugly distortion which you won't get with the ribbon.

Loud and sharp sounding horns like trumpet or flugelhorn (a trumpet with a damper is notorious) will sound very nice and smooth when recorded with a decent ribbon mic.

I've had very good results with ribbons on saxophone and clarinet as well.

So, a nice ribbon like the Beyer M160 or M260 won't harm you.

And for all the engineers without any ribbon experience: don't say the SDC's sound better on OH untill you've experienced the ribbon.

I predict a bright future for the ribbon mics.

 

[patsplat]

What Shure and At mics would you recommend to me ?.What is your opinion of Sennheiser mics in this application ?

....bump....

 

[sdelsolray]

Ok...I'm sort of at this point.I have some SM 57's,a beta 52 and a EV N/D767a.I have no LDC's or SDC's. I will be recording into an Aardvark Q10 and using Samplitude as my DAW app.Mostly hard rock/heavy metal-80's to modern.Some acoustic guitar,real drums,real amps,ect.And sound quality must be pro enough to sell to the general public,off a web site,ect..I want to buy the best tools that I can and the mid range is what I can afford.What Shure and At mics would you recommend to me ?.What is your opinion of Sennheiser mics in this application ?

You might want to start with a pair of ribbons, a pair of SDs and at least one decent LD for vocals (maybe two for variety). Anothr dynamic or two might not hurt. You should be able to get many decent midrange mics for under $2k.

For example, a pair of the Beyer ribbons mentioned above, a pair of Sound Room Oktavas or Studio Projects C4s for the SDs (or if you want to stretch, a pair of Josephson C42s), and a decent vocal mic of your choice - Soundelux U195, AT 4060, ADK TT are a few examples.

Good luck!

 

[Ronan]

Ok...I'm sort of at this point.I have some SM 57's,a beta 52 and a EV N/D767a.I have no LDC's or SDC's. I will be recording into an Aardvark Q10 and using Samplitude as my DAW app.Mostly hard rock/heavy metal-80's to modern.Some acoustic guitar,real drums,real amps,ect.And sound quality must be pro enough to sell to the general public,off a web site,ect..I want to buy the best tools that I can and the mid range is what I can afford.What Shure and At mics would you recommend to me ?.What is your opinion of Sennheiser mics in this application ?

Not sure about your budget etc. but if I was to add one mic to your collection (within a reasonable budget) it would probably be a Shure KSM44. (I have seen them go for less than $400 on Ebay) A great mic for vox acoustic guitars and overheads etc. Colored in a nice way. The Shure KSM32 is a also a great mic (my fave for overheads) but its actually a bit too neutral for a lot of things since a lot of time you want the mic to add a little color and excitement to the track.

When you jump into a LDC, I strongly suggest that you buy one good one instead of a pair of cheap ones. Great sounding mono drums or guitar is WAY better then lame stereo. If you have one good LDC, a couple 57s and a beta52 there is almost no instrument that you should not be able to record well.

 

[Ty Ford]

Here's the thing. Many mics, the c414 included, can sound very different with different preamps. C414 can sound quite edgey when used with the "wrong" preamps. What preamps do you use with the C414?

Regards,

Ty Ford

 

[Duardo]

I'd second the recommendation for ribbons, if you can get your hands on a pair. Earthworks microphones do a great job as well...if your cymbals aren't too bright to begin with.

One other microphone that hasn't been mentioned yet is Audio Technica's 4047. I only have one, so I haven't used them in a stereo overhead situation, but I have thrown it up there for a mono scratch tracks and was quite pleased with the results. Detailed, but not too bright...

-Duardo

 

[Warhead]

Another issue is I have cheap, thin-sounding cymbals, Sabian B8s. Upgrades (Istanbuls) are coming soon, [/url]

Good thing upgrades are on the way!!

War

 

[earworm]

hey HAN, thanks alot, very nice comments !

i'm using my C414 with a Joemeek Vc8

sounds very nice, fresh, not too sharp

gonna do a little test and record the same thing with the 414 connected to my Motu preamps and when its connected to my joemeek

 

[patsplat]

sdelsolray,Ronan,(& anyone else)...thanx for the recommendations I'll have a closer look at some of those and keep an eye out on e bay.