Vai or Satriani

[Light]

...but Eddie? he didnt even seem interested in playing guitar if just for the sake of playing guitar and showing off, he seemed to just play guitar to get chicks, and nothing beyond that.

Has anyone ever played guitar for any other reason?


As far as it goes, I'm just giving my opinions on the matter. To me, Satch and Vai sound like typewriters. I think there was one song on Passion and Warfare (can't remember which one, but a ballad) with some really nice playing, including some really fast stuff that fit really well.

As far as Eddie, sure Eruption is a show off, but listen to the RIFFS on the rest of that record. Just amazing.

You don't like Burnin' Vernon? Well, first of all, the guy is the cleanest guitar player I have ever heard live, and I love to hear people who push the envelop of harmony in pop and rock music. Satch and Vai don't even make the envelop go out of flat in that regard. Vernon Reed rips it in half. I LOVE that shit. More to the point, there has never been a rock solo that came close to the solo in Cult of Personality for sheer frenetic energy, and that is exactly what that song needed.

Want some more of these guys? OK, how about Reeves Gabrel? He played with David Bowie for the better part of a decade, and when I lived in Boston (his home town) I saw him a half dozen times, and he is amazing. He has the chops you guys want to hear, but doesn't often show them off. But when he does, he has it, and it feels great.

Or Adrian Belew. A little weird, but that's part of what I like about him. And how anyone can play a guitar with their strap that long, I don't get. But listen to the early eighties Crimson. Wow. Fripp is a bit of a typist, but he always has been. He pushes harmony enough that I still get into it. Adrian Belew, though, blows me away.

But again, these are just the guys I like, and that is all I was ever saying. I was giving MY reactions.

Oh yeah, and Snoopy, I'll get right on that as soon as I can get over the whole debilitating pain five minutes after picking up a guitar. Thanks a lot for reminding me.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[ibanezrocks]

How about Slash? awesome musician, can play ballads, and can shred. Definitely my favourite guitarist.

 

[Tim Walker]

Eric Johnson


tim

 

[famous beagle]

Has anyone ever played guitar for any other reason?


As far as it goes, I'm just giving my opinions on the matter. To me, Satch and Vai sound like typewriters. I think there was one song on Passion and Warfare (can't remember which one, but a ballad) with some really nice playing, including some really fast stuff that fit really well.

As far as Eddie, sure Eruption is a show off, but listen to the RIFFS on the rest of that record. Just amazing.

You don't like Burnin' Vernon? Well, first of all, the guy is the cleanest guitar player I have ever heard live, and I love to hear people who push the envelop of harmony in pop and rock music. Satch and Vai don't even make the envelop go out of flat in that regard. Vernon Reed rips it in half. I LOVE that shit. More to the point, there has never been a rock solo that came close to the solo in Cult of Personality for sheer frenetic energy, and that is exactly what that song needed.

Want some more of these guys? OK, how about Reeves Gabrel? He played with David Bowie for the better part of a decade, and when I lived in Boston (his home town) I saw him a half dozen times, and he is amazing. He has the chops you guys want to hear, but doesn't often show them off. But when he does, he has it, and it feels great.

Or Adrian Belew. A little weird, but that's part of what I like about him. And how anyone can play a guitar with their strap that long, I don't get. But listen to the early eighties Crimson. Wow. Fripp is a bit of a typist, but he always has been. He pushes harmony enough that I still get into it. Adrian Belew, though, blows me away.

But again, these are just the guys I like, and that is all I was ever saying. I was giving MY reactions.

Oh yeah, and Snoopy, I'll get right on that as soon as I can get over the whole debilitating pain five minutes after picking up a guitar. Thanks a lot for reminding me.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

I never said I liked to hear chops. I just don't dislike something automatically because it's chopsy. That's all I was trying to get at.

I think the song on Passion and Warfare you're talking about is "For the Love of God." It's the one I mentioned in my earlier post. I think it's an amazing solo.

I never said I didn't like Eddie; I just said he was flashy for flashy's sake a lot. He is an awesome riff-writer and obviously a very talented guitarist.

Regarding Vernon, if you say so I guess. I personally didn't like the solo in Cult of Personality one bit, but that's just my opinion. And I don't understand why the song "needed" "sheer frenetic energy. But I may be biased because I didn't really care for the song very much. It's not bad. I'm sure Vernon is a capable player, but I just really don't care much for atonlity. I know he's not atonal in the strict sense of the word (as in twelve-tone rows, etc.) but when I'm in the mood to hear someone "pushing the harmony envelope" I tend towards a less random style---maybe Holdsworth, for instance. The "Devil Take the Hindmost" solo is on the top of my list in that department.

I didn't even know you had tendonitis. That sucks that you do, but it's certainly not my fault. Trying to make me feel guilty about it won't help the problem one bit.

 

[dawg2k5]

Regarding Vernon, if you say so I guess. I personally didn't like the solo in Cult of Personality one bit, but that's just my opinion.

Me neither....but then again I don't like anything, he or Living Colour has ever done.

 

[Gorty]

My preference as a player is Joe Satriani. I dont think technical ability can be taken away from either of the players, as regards feel I think both players have got it whether they display it is another issue. I dont think you could be a player at their level without it.
I love the stuff Vai recorded on Eat em and Smile, but when it comes to the Surfing With The Alien album specifically 'Satch Boogie' Satriani has my vote.

Thats my Personal opinion!

 

[mixmkr]

Yeah...that Charlie Parker...what a wanker too. That "Giant Steps" solo.... what was he thinkin'??? no feelin' at all....

QUOTE]

Giant Steps was Coltrane, not Parker.

ding,ding, ding, etc....

thanks for the correction, and I hope my indicated something too. (perhaps I should have said Miles? ) I too am a Berklee grad of '82.

 

[mixmkr]

and you guys gotta lay off Light. At 30 yrs old, you reach an age where you can conquor the world and realize that at 21, you were just a dolt. The forties and fifties don't add up to anything, cause it is just all downhill after 35!!

 

[MadAudio]

Well when I get home I'm gonna watch the Steve Vai concert DVD my friend let me borrow. I forget the title, but the band opens up with "Shyboy." Should be fun!

And I think that anyone Frank Zappa would credit with "impossible guitar parts" deserves some respect no matter what!

 

[Dogman]

No contest...as in I like em both. Two distinctive playing styles, yet very similar in some ways. I'd listen to either, and have music from both. 6 of one, half dozen of the other....Cool.
Ed

 

[timmerman]

With people like you, I would love to see you put your money where your mouth is. I'd like to hear you let your guitar do your talking.

Famous Beagle,

remember light is a guitarbuilder not a guitarplayer

Eddie

 

[timmerman]

Sorry, but music is not a competition.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

And who turns music into a competion here?

Thank you Mr. Light

Eddie

 

[Light]

And who turns music into a competion here?

Thank you Mr. Light

Eddie

No, I said nothing about compitition. I just said I didn't like their playing.

And then people started taking it personally.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[timmerman]

No, I said nothing about compitition. I just said I didn't like their playing.

And then people started taking it personally.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

Okay that is true, and we know your point about the subject so we are all fine.

I did found some of the comparisions you made between several players interesting, like Mike Stern and some other fusion cats.

You know Satriani once mentioned in an interview that someone thought of him as a fusionplayer and his response was: "Well I am a rockplayer who plays melodic ideas and songs and if you want to call that fusion that is okay"

Mike Stern is really a totally different player eh?, you cannot compare him to cats like Vai and Satch.

Okay I do not want you to see this as a personal attack on your person, just thought the people you used as reference were interesting, but perhaps the examples were not too well chosen.

Anyway, all good man.

Cheers,

Eddie

 

[Light]

Mike Stern is really a totally different player eh?, you cannot compare him to cats like Vai and Satch.

They are all guys whose primary audience is other musicians who are blown away by the chops involved (just try and deny it). They all have wicked mad chops. Now sure, Stern is more of a jazz guy, but that's just style. I never had much use for the dividers between the different sections of the record store. It's music, their are twelve notes, and the only thing that really matters is how you put them together.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

Oh yeah, and who ever called me "a grouchy knob" in a feedback note, you forgot to attatch the negative to it. The message is still neutral.

Yeah, I am cynical, grouchy, and annoyed most of the time. Deal with it. If you don't think I have anything of value, add me to your ignore list. I don't really care. I come here to bitch and moan under an assumed name so I don't have to worry about said bitching affecting my shops reputation (sorry, but there are days when Kevin Smith was right, this job would be great if it weren't for the fucking customers). In order to make my pressence something other than a troll, I also try to answer questions.

But basically, I am here to be a winy bitch.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[timmerman]

They are all guys whose primary audience is other musicians who are blown away by the chops involved (just try and deny it). They all have wicked mad chops. Now sure, Stern is more of a jazz guy, but that's just style. I never had much use for the dividers between the different sections of the record store. It's music, their are twelve notes, and the only thing that really matters is how you put them together.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

Of Course, music is music and that is it.

The thing with Mike Stern is that he can play Jazzstandards, and in well versed in the Jazz vocabulairy, whereas Vai and Satch are well-versed in the Rockidiom. Of course, both Vai and Satch could play you a Jazz standard in chordal style too, but that is NOT what they are known for and I also do not think that they play that kind of style a great deal for themselves when they are at home.

About the chops.........well all of these players have them, and they use them to create some kind of exhitement, just as when you would start talking a little louder and faster at times to prevent a conversation from getting to monotone.

I think most people get the idea what VAi and Satch stand for, and occassionly you still have people who say: "These guys do not play with much feeling listen to..........." Well I guess all of this is a matter of taste, what your idea of feel is, and what you have been exposed to as a listener.

Anyway, starting to repeat myself here as you probably know how I feel about this subject.

Eddie

 

[werners]

Ozzy Rulez
sorry wrong thread

 

[MadAudio]

Well, I watched the Steve Vai Live at the Astoria London DVD. Well, most of it. I had to turn it off during "Bad Horsie" because I was on bombast overload. It's funny, I can listen to a whole Vai CD without flinching, but that concert is just an onslaught. I'm not sure I have the strength to finish it!

 

[Racerx]

I agree....."feeling" is definately subjective.
There aren't too many people that would say Vai and Satch play with no "feeling". That's a bit of a heavy handed statement.

Agreed. I think what SOME people take as lacking "feeling" is merely the fact that many shredders, like Vai and satch, can play with such complexity, that it goes right over the head of the average listener. Therefor, you get this sort of lack of connection with the artist. Probably why Poison gained more popularity than Vai. I'm not gonna go so far as to say you gotta dumb it down, but......