Using tascam 38 as a reel to reel effects processor

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Melchizedek666

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Hello,
I am new to the forum, and I have a question for you guys.

I was in a music store the other day, and the recording/audio sound tech mentioned an interesting idea to me. I told him that I had just recently purchased a Tascam 38 8 track, [to remaster some old sticky shed syndrome recordings I made in the early eighties - but that's another story... heh heh heh! Thank you, Nesco]! Anyhow, as I was talking to this guy [a very seemingly knowledgeable guy] about the deck, he mentioned that I could us the Tascam 38 as an effects processor, by placing it in the signal path between my MOTU 1296, and the computer [I use Cubase VST 32 5.2 in OS 9 - which works just fine with the "true tape" realism for me, and frankly; I don't want another 2 year learning curve on an OS X computer]!

Now... I know that a lot of you are going to tell me that this info is "old hat", and that there are tons of articles on this forum about it, but here is the difference in what this guy said, compared to the numerous articles I have read on the web. He told me that I did not even need to dump the analog info onto tape, before I ran it into the computer. He said that all I have to do, is engage the record button [and subsequently, the record head] on the Tascam [holding it in place with scotch tape, I guess], while the signal was passing through it, and that I would get the warmth of the sound of the analog deck, without even using recording tape at all!

I had never heard this concept! All I had ever heard was that sound engineers were dumping their mixes to "tape" for analog warmth, and then back into the computer for mastering and editing.

Essentially... this guys said I would be getting the "tone" of the Tascam, without the hassles of the tape cost, scarcity, and volatility - not to mention, the the time consuming job of having to bounce the music back and forth from analog to digital, and vice-versa!

I know that in the years I recorded on a Tascam 38 [in the eighties], the guitar and drum sounds I got on the analog deck was superior to the digital I am getting from these guitar amp simulators, and since I still have a plethora of old vacuum tube amps; I figured I could get the best of both worlds from my gear!

Please give me your opinions, since you guys are the experts. Please be cordial, I am not good at reacting to trolls. Thanks, Bill
 
While the monitoring electronics of the 38 are definitely analog and the signal will be very marginally altered, I don't think you'd really be doing much of anything in regard to an easily audible effect or difference in the sound. Running tape is still the better way as that will induce changing to the flatness of the signal as well as add some saturation effect if you drive it hard enough.

Cheers! :)
 
Thanks, Ghost. I figured the tape saturation was a key factor, but hey... at least this guy thought outside the box. Some of the greatest ideas were simple.
 
I'll do both, and then A/B the results! But first, I get to change three of the impossible to find 8 Volt 100 MA bulbs in the VU meters [I did finally find them]. Plus, I have read all of the articles on the web, but noone actually shows [with picture or video] how to ENTER the little plastic world of this model specific Tascam 38 VU meter! I have heard they are "taped", but I don't know. Are the meters hard to get out of their sockets [I will also be changing the belt]? Thanks, Bill
 
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The upper shell is taped to the lower shell of the meter. So you just need to cut it with an exacto knife and then the meter lens, (the top part), can pull away, revealing the light.

I don't know of any videos to walk you through it but if you have the full manual, it will give you exploded views to show you what you need to take apart to get to it.

There is a you-tube video on changing the belt, so do a search for that one.

Cheers! :)
 
I was told the same thing by a friend who had years of recording experience. He was referring to the pre-amps in the tape machine as I had asked the same question you have.
 
Ghost is right. Running a signal through the audio electronics will probably do little to alter it. That is because those audio electronics were designed not to alter the sound. They were designed to be as "sterile" and "clinical' as possible, at least within the limits of what was needed for that machine.

I'm sorry but i dont believe the "knowledgeable" guy at the music shop was thinking outside the box. Just ignorant. Probably repeating third hand something he heard. What he said to you is one of the myths that still does the rounds. It says that routing your signal through an old transistorised amplifier or pre will give it "analog warmth". It may distort it if the amp is of poor quality or in need of repair but it almost certainly wont add the "warmth" harmonics we normally associate with an overdriven analog tape.

I talked about this in an earlier thread. Imprecise notions of "analog warmth" are the problem. It's better to call it "analog tape warmth" or better still "overdriven analog tape warmth" rather than just "analog warmth". The latter term only confuses people and leads them to think that running a signal through any stage of analog amplifier will "warm up the sound". As Ghost said, it probably wont.

Actually, many if not most solid state amps and preamps if driven too hard go into clipping in a way audibly very similar to the clipping of going above 0dbFS in a digital recording. It's usually not a desirable effect.

Tim
 
Yes, there's a very audible difference between IM and harmonic distortion. IM, (Inter-modulation distortion), sounds harsh and ugly and normally causes one to think something is going terribly wrong with the signal and perhaps is a sign of the electronics about to go Chernobyl. Harmonic distortion, on the other hand, sounds smooth and pleasing to the ear because the added harmonics are quite literally thickening up the sound with additional harmonic overtones along with the compressive frequency response alteration effects. Electronics when pushed tend to produce ugly IM distortion. Tape, if calibrated correctly, can produce usable, pleasing harmonic distortion and this requires that tape being driven by clean electronics which are not itself being over-driven into ugly IM, thus ruining the whole effort.

Cheers! :)
 
Ghost pretty much said it all. Ideas like you heard from the music store tech are basically mutated rumors with most of the important info lost along the way. There are a couple devices out there that allow one to record the input signal through the record head without tape. These are loosely based on the same concept as the old car cassette devices that allow you to patch in a portable CD player and listen to it through the car’s sound system. And as already mentioned some people use a 3-head tape machines as a head-end, recording onto tape and immediately picking up that signal from the repro head to send to a DAW.

Anything other than that will simply add another amp stage, which may subtly alter the sound, but no cigar as far as emulating analog tape. You could do the same thing by adding another mixer or mixer channel from the same console in between. It’s just another stage of electronics for the signal to pass through. The crucial thing missing with this idea is the tape, which has properties that can’t be emulated any other way than to use tape. The 38 is a nice machine. Buy some new tape and have a go at it. A lot of people, including many of us here integrate analog and digital to get the best of what each can do. ;)
 
Hey guys... appreciate the info. I didn't necessarily believe what this guy said was "set in stone", but it was interesting [and I am a VERY open minded person about most things]. And... since you guys seem to be very knowledgable, I figured I would mention it. I tend to think that good music sounds good no matter what medium it is recorded on, but I do so love a fat hot EL 84 tube glowing when I hook up the old tele, and take her for a spin! However, Lennon played "My Mommy's Dead" on a cheap cassette recorder, and it moved me as much as many modern, fabulously recorded, technical recordings! My belief [after 45 years in a music fiasco] - less is more! As a guitar player once told me... The guitar make and amp brand are important, but the music's in the fingers, my boy."

Here are some good words to live by: Listen to your heart... that little voice that lives in your head, because every fucker in this world has an opinion, and 9 out of 10 times, you know more than the person who is instructing you.

I think that is a lot of the problem with today's musical scene... too much emphasis on gear, and tech choices, and no knowledge in the realm of melody, and the beauty of a pristine chord progression. Bill
 
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