Unwritten Chick Code

[Anonymous User]

Fat Fleet and Manslick - thanks for the listen. It's really not super loud compared to the commercial stuff put out these days. It's probably -13 to -12 RMS. I suppose the guitars make it seem louder than it actually is.

Hey Trip, what do you mean "It's probably -13 to -12 RMS"? It looks like this.

I listened again. It sounds pretty much the same to me.

 

[ido1957]

Yep - I noticed an improvement right away in #3 - things are blending better during the verses.
The accent guitar is working for me - just subtle but effective. Lead solo is perfect (playing and level).
This mix is open but cohesive so kudos on this mix.

 

[Atkron205]

#3 is better, it's blended better overall. Good mix.

 

[RAMI]

Aktron did a GREAT job drumming on this.

I still think the guitars are too loud, but maybe that's just me. I think the drums need to come up, though. I barely hear the kik, I hear the snare, and I can tell it's a good sounding snare by the very last flam he does at the end when the last chord is ringing out. But it's not loud enough. I don't hear the hi-hats or ride, couldn't tell you which one because I don't hear either. When the toms come in for the first roll, that should be way more powerful.

Trip, I don't how you get -12 to -13db on this. I just put it in REAPER and it's averaging -9. That's loud. I'm not even saying that's a bad thing, because I don't hear it as being too compressed or squashed. But it is definitely loud. I got -9 on the right and -9.4 on the left.

 

[Nola]

TripleM, the guitars are way too loud. Like offhand I'd guess something major like 6db...but maybe even more. They really distract...can you post a mix with them lowered significantly just for giggles?
The guitars are jumping out of the mix and everything else sits behind them.

 

[Robus]

I listened to Mix 3. Those doubled rhythm guitars are still an issue for me, but we may have to agree to disagree. Bass is at a good level. I'm a hearing guitar on the right doing occasional flourishes. More of that would work for me. You've got some real drummers commenting, so there's not much I can add to their mix suggestions. For what it's worth, the drum mix sounds pretty good, but like everything they are getting crowded by the rhythm guitars.

 

[Atkron205]

Aktron did a GREAT job drumming on this.

I still think the guitars are too loud, but maybe that's just me. I think the drums need to come up, though. I barely hear the kik, I hear the snare, and I can tell it's a good sounding snare by the very last flam he does at the end when the last chord is ringing out. But it's not loud enough. I don't hear the hi-hats or ride, couldn't tell you which one because I don't hear either. When the toms come in for the first roll, that should be way more powerful.

Trip, I don't how you get -12 to -13db on this. I just put it in REAPER and it's averaging -9. That's loud. I'm not even saying that's a bad thing, because I don't hear it as being too compressed or squashed. But it is definitely loud. I got -9 on the right and -9.4 on the left.

Thanks RAMI, I just listened to it again, I think the guitars could come down a bit more, I know the drum tracks have alot more punch to them (when I tracked them).

 

[Chili]

Listening to Mix #3. rhythm guitars are still way too loud. They still dominate the mix.

Lead vocal, drums and bass should be the forefront of the mix. Rhythm guitars, accent guitars, keyboards, BGVs etc. should be in a supporting role. Lead solos should be close or at the same level as the lead vocal, though there is room for creative variety here.

But way better than the first mix, so keep at it. I seem to remember your songs always being Beatle-esque; this one sounds about the same genre. Cool.

Oh, and good job to Atkron.

 

[Atkron205]

Listening to Mix #3. rhythm guitars are still way too loud. They still dominate the mix.

Lead vocal, drums and bass should be the forefront of the mix. Rhythm guitars, accent guitars, keyboards, BGVs etc. should be in a supporting role. Lead solos should be close or at the same level as the lead vocal, though there is room for creative variety here.

But way better than the first mix, so keep at it. I seem to remember your songs always being Beatle-esque; this one sounds about the same genre. Cool.

Oh, and good job to Atkron.

Thanks Chili, it was my 1st time collaborating on something. it was pretty cool. I would like to do more of it.

 

[TripleM]

OK Mix #4 at the top. Collect 'em all!!! Trade with yer friends!!

The changes are just lowering the main crunch guitar 1.5db from where it was in mix #3. They're probably down 5-6 dbs from mix #1 (I can't remember exactly). Then I brought the kick up 2 dbs.

This mix is just as loud as the others. Manslick: that's what it looks like in Audacity to me as well. But look at a modern mix, and you'll see a much more dense "block of blue."

RAMI - how do you check RMS in Reaper? I use a plugin in reaper called RMS Buddy. It's showing just a bit louder than -13. It's in the high -12's. How are you measuring it? And yeah Atkron did a great job on the drumming, and it fun having him do it.

If we can get levels straightened out, I'd like to know peoples feeling on the tone of things too. Thanks in advance.

 

[RAMI]

RAMI - how do you check RMS in Reaper? I use a plugin in reaper called RMS Buddy. It's showing just a bit louder than -13. It's in the high -12's.

On the master fader, you should have your peak levels on top and your RMS level at the bottom. That's the default for REAPER. If you don't have that, right click on it and you have the options of "Peak & RMS", just "Peak", or just "RMS".

 

[RAMI]

If we can get levels straightened out, I'd like to know peoples feeling on the tone of things too. Thanks in advance.

I think you're not getting many comments on tones because everything sounds good, very good, in fact. It seems people's main issue are the guitar levels. Pretty sure that once you get that dialed in, the drum levels will be fine, as well as everything else.

 

[Chili]

Much better. Sounds good.

Guitar tones all sound good. Nice crunch. Embellishments in the right spots. Vocals have a couple of flat notes here or there, but just means we're human.

My only real nit anymore is the length of the song. It's about 5 minutes long and doesn't have any breaks. At least not up to the point where I stopped listening... around the 3.5 minute mark. You can probably knock a full two minutes and not lose anything, unless you add some kind of change up in the arrangement.

 

[RAMI]

Hope this helps...Look at the bottom left:

 

[Robus]

Mix 4, big step forward. Just dropping those guitars opens up the mix. I'm hearing details of the vocals and drums that I wasn't hearing before.

 

[Atkron205]

OK Mix #4 at the top. Collect 'em all!!! Trade with yer friends!!

The changes are just lowering the main crunch guitar 1.5db from where it was in mix #3. They're probably down 5-6 dbs from mix #1 (I can't remember exactly). Then I brought the kick up 2 dbs.

This mix is just as loud as the others. Manslick: that's what it looks like in Audacity to me as well. But look at a modern mix, and you'll see a much more dense "block of blue."

RAMI - how do you check RMS in Reaper? I use a plugin in reaper called RMS Buddy. It's showing just a bit louder than -13. It's in the high -12's. How are you measuring it? And yeah Atkron did a great job on the drumming, and it fun having him do it.

If we can get levels straightened out, I'd like to know peoples feeling on the tone of things too. Thanks in advance.

much better! The guitars fall in line better with the overall levels. are we going for number 5?

 

[Anonymous User]

This is gonna sound stupid but, what if you pan the guitars up the middle on the start and spread them out as it goes? But maybe not all the way hard?

To me it's the hard panning, I think that blows my mind at the very start.

As it get going it's not as rough. To me anyway.

And yeah I have looked at modern mixes and yes they are solid blocks of heavily smashed audio.

 

[TripleM]

RAMI - I saw that in Reaper on my machine after your post. My meter scale is different, because that spot you circled is showing just over +3 in the verses and about +4 in the chorus. The upper end of its scale is +12 (so I'm guessing a +3 corresponds to the -9 you were seeing). Do you know what scale I'm using and how I change it? The peak meter is dbFS - it peaks at 0 - so that makes sense. I just can't figure out the RMS meter.

I'm glad everyone likes the lower guitar. Let me just say that I think you're all high. I like them when they <NigelVoice>go to 11</NigelVoice>.

So what would everyone like to hear in mix #5? I mean why stop now?

 

[RAMI]

RAMI - I saw that in Reaper on my machine after your post. My meter scale is different, because that spot you circled is showing just over +3 in the verses and about +4 in the chorus. The upper end of its scale is +12 (so I'm guessing a +3 corresponds to the -9 you were seeing). Do you know what scale I'm using and how I change it? The peak meter is dbFS - it peaks at 0 - so that makes sense. I just can't figure out the RMS meter.

That's weird. Try right clicking in that area and you should get the options I mentioned: "Peak and RMS", "Peak only", or "RMS only". I think there's also an option to put "Peak" or "RMS" on top or at the bottom.

 

[Robus]

Keep 'em coming 3M. You're on a roll!