hixmix
Halibut, North Dakota
Kudos for 4852 views!
Under The Hood - Inside the Marshall V67G and the Studio Projects C1
H
Harvey Gerst
New member
Which is more than I got on the thread about mic designs, polar patterns, and mic placements. How sad. That's the one thread in here that I'm really proud of.
M
MrLip
New member
Dumb question
What is so great about using super thin diaphrams?
What is so great about using super thin diaphrams?
H
Harvey Gerst
New member
Super thin diaphragms = extended high frequency response, and reduced resonances in the audible range. Lower mass also = better transient response.
So why doesn't everybody use these ultra-thin diaphragms if they're so damn good? Because they can't make them reliably with out the diaphragms breaking when they try to tension them. And these thin diaphragms don't work when you try to sputter the gold onto them. The gold layer is too thick and too uneven.
So far, only Stephen Paul has been able to make reliable mic diaphragms in the sub one micron range.
So why doesn't everybody use these ultra-thin diaphragms if they're so damn good? Because they can't make them reliably with out the diaphragms breaking when they try to tension them. And these thin diaphragms don't work when you try to sputter the gold onto them. The gold layer is too thick and too uneven.
So far, only Stephen Paul has been able to make reliable mic diaphragms in the sub one micron range.
S
s_paul
New member
Very short on time this morning guys, and just getting sober, but I received so many response notifications I figgered I should shoot up here, (no, not in the bathroom!) and answer at least this one... and please just for time conservation, please consider all who have written supportive things, most especially my dear friend Harv, thanked heartily... So:
Well, first off, is this a pond? No wonder everything looks all green this morning! And I thought it was the huge reefer and sixteen beers I consumed last night, but as we say in Nashville, "It ain't the heat, it's the stupidity!" No offense.
However... not wanting to ordinarily do this, but if you go to my little protected corner of the pond where pycothami are welcomed to keep the algae down, at:
http://www.recording.org
I think you'll find there is one attitude which pervades all my work both in the realm of music and art as well as physics and cosmology and metaphysics, all of which those who know me will tell you that though I know nothing about, like quantum mechanics, still, interest me deeply.
And that is why (if you go to my mp3 page and not only listen to a few of the mp3 files there, I know most scoff at this, but I promise to amaze and daze you with the quality that can be obtained from layer III just knowing a few tricks...) I make the kind of records I make, and I believe what I believe. What di I believe? And why do I rave on here about it? Well...
As some of you might know, I designed the capsules and electronics (yes Virginia, though the term 'mod' can be very loosely applied to what we do at the lab) that artists from Celine Dion to Eagles and dear little Britney sing (and their engineers and producers the world over, from Japan to the Phillipines to Autrailia to UK, wherever... record into), and, also in spite of the fact that it is also true that I have been ripped off so mercilessly it even amazes =me=... The fact is, that I really deplore the elitest bullshit attitude that so many whom I've known since they were in short pants, and I was teaching them engineering, and mastering, production, whatever... get a little gold or platinum on the wall and now they're 'big-shots', or gahntzer machers as we would say where I came from.
I have one advantage though when they pull that bigshot crap on me however... I got their mikes! (And a few other things I happen to know a little about!) Hah! It's -good- ta be the king... occasionally, anyway.
The point really being, and then I gotta go, is that anyone, -anyone- who knows me will tell you that I believe in accessibility, as long as the insults or idiocy don't start taking too much time to deal with.
You call the lab anytime, ask for me, and as soon as I can, I'll call ya back. Period. I have had to tighten up a little on some things because we have been just financially decimated by the stealing (even by the Grand Old Giants Themselves) of my work and concepts, (I don't like washing dirty laundry in public so I'll leave that there) and having these guys pass them off as their own ideas, however poorly executed for the Almighty Buck, but on the whole, if you visit my little wetland at http://www.recording.org, you will discover that though I've learned that it is wiser not to share for instance, the secret of the ten years of R&D it took to develop the coating process for our diaphragms that allow them to be rubbed with a Q-tip soaked in alchohol without losing the gold, (true story, not that we recommend you try this simple home test!) I will tell you just about anything you'd like to know that I know.
And not just about mikes.
Like I say, if you read the 'info' tab on my mp3 page, you'll discover a lot about what I went through to do all this crazy stuff and to make records, which I've been doing since the age of fifteen when I was signed to my first record deal at Columbia in '66, they were tube three track at the time, and John Hammond Sr. was my producer) I'm sure you'll understand that I'm very much one of you guys.
The only difference between myself and many of my colleagues is that I haven't forgotten that. And I take a lot of shit for it too. You know, the old 'familiarity breeds contempt' crap.
So the idea is, remember to look at the lyric sheets or the individual info link on the songs posted on the mp3 site, and you'll also find I shared -tons- of my recording techniques in the tech notes. Mikes used on guitars, etc, whatnot, diaphragm thicknesses, models, marques, and all that. How I got certain drum sounds, etc. so you can learn while you listen if you hear something I did if you liked and wonder "How he do that?" All I ask is that you don't just download because that hurts my stats, at least listen first and then d/l if you have a slow connect, as a favor...
So, to finish up here, (Wendy's got that look in her eye!) that mp3 page is wired up all OVER the place
secret and evident links everywhere... and if you check it all out thoroughly and follow all the links to all over the place, I'm sure you'll feel, (I hope anyway) that the time I spent doing all this stuff was helpful to you.
And yes, I am trying to raise the money to get the next eight knuckles in my hands done so I can open them, so a lot of things are a drag right now, but I assure you the expense of what we do isn't because I'm runnin' around in a vintage Ferrari Mille Miglia, lighting Havanas with hundred dollar bills! Without Tony and Ellen, there'd BE no Stephen Paul Audio anymore, and without you guys and gals and the industry not =completely= forgetting who we are, I'd have gone under long ago.
There's more, but I'll leave it at that 'cos I really gotta go pee! Among other things.
And if you wonder how I made mp3 files sound the way I did, (hey you might think they suck, too!) sign the guestbook and ask, and I'm plannning a little post on my .org area about how to make good-sounding mpegs. It can be done!
Ooooohhh (crossing legs).... yeah!
Later, and thanks for the interesting whatever this is! And I WILL come back as soon as I have some time for those who asked and explain my comment about the mikes which are the real subject of this thread...
God bless, and love and kisses from (temporarily) Nashville,
Stephen
http://www.mp3.com/stephenpaul
Well, first off, is this a pond? No wonder everything looks all green this morning! And I thought it was the huge reefer and sixteen beers I consumed last night, but as we say in Nashville, "It ain't the heat, it's the stupidity!" No offense.
However... not wanting to ordinarily do this, but if you go to my little protected corner of the pond where pycothami are welcomed to keep the algae down, at:
http://www.recording.org
I think you'll find there is one attitude which pervades all my work both in the realm of music and art as well as physics and cosmology and metaphysics, all of which those who know me will tell you that though I know nothing about, like quantum mechanics, still, interest me deeply.
And that is why (if you go to my mp3 page and not only listen to a few of the mp3 files there, I know most scoff at this, but I promise to amaze and daze you with the quality that can be obtained from layer III just knowing a few tricks...) I make the kind of records I make, and I believe what I believe. What di I believe? And why do I rave on here about it? Well...
As some of you might know, I designed the capsules and electronics (yes Virginia, though the term 'mod' can be very loosely applied to what we do at the lab) that artists from Celine Dion to Eagles and dear little Britney sing (and their engineers and producers the world over, from Japan to the Phillipines to Autrailia to UK, wherever... record into), and, also in spite of the fact that it is also true that I have been ripped off so mercilessly it even amazes =me=... The fact is, that I really deplore the elitest bullshit attitude that so many whom I've known since they were in short pants, and I was teaching them engineering, and mastering, production, whatever... get a little gold or platinum on the wall and now they're 'big-shots', or gahntzer machers as we would say where I came from.
I have one advantage though when they pull that bigshot crap on me however... I got their mikes! (And a few other things I happen to know a little about!) Hah! It's -good- ta be the king... occasionally, anyway.
The point really being, and then I gotta go, is that anyone, -anyone- who knows me will tell you that I believe in accessibility, as long as the insults or idiocy don't start taking too much time to deal with.
You call the lab anytime, ask for me, and as soon as I can, I'll call ya back. Period. I have had to tighten up a little on some things because we have been just financially decimated by the stealing (even by the Grand Old Giants Themselves) of my work and concepts, (I don't like washing dirty laundry in public so I'll leave that there) and having these guys pass them off as their own ideas, however poorly executed for the Almighty Buck, but on the whole, if you visit my little wetland at http://www.recording.org, you will discover that though I've learned that it is wiser not to share for instance, the secret of the ten years of R&D it took to develop the coating process for our diaphragms that allow them to be rubbed with a Q-tip soaked in alchohol without losing the gold, (true story, not that we recommend you try this simple home test!) I will tell you just about anything you'd like to know that I know.
And not just about mikes.
Like I say, if you read the 'info' tab on my mp3 page, you'll discover a lot about what I went through to do all this crazy stuff and to make records, which I've been doing since the age of fifteen when I was signed to my first record deal at Columbia in '66, they were tube three track at the time, and John Hammond Sr. was my producer) I'm sure you'll understand that I'm very much one of you guys.
The only difference between myself and many of my colleagues is that I haven't forgotten that. And I take a lot of shit for it too. You know, the old 'familiarity breeds contempt' crap.
So the idea is, remember to look at the lyric sheets or the individual info link on the songs posted on the mp3 site, and you'll also find I shared -tons- of my recording techniques in the tech notes. Mikes used on guitars, etc, whatnot, diaphragm thicknesses, models, marques, and all that. How I got certain drum sounds, etc. so you can learn while you listen if you hear something I did if you liked and wonder "How he do that?" All I ask is that you don't just download because that hurts my stats, at least listen first and then d/l if you have a slow connect, as a favor...
So, to finish up here, (Wendy's got that look in her eye!) that mp3 page is wired up all OVER the place
secret and evident links everywhere... and if you check it all out thoroughly and follow all the links to all over the place, I'm sure you'll feel, (I hope anyway) that the time I spent doing all this stuff was helpful to you.And yes, I am trying to raise the money to get the next eight knuckles in my hands done so I can open them, so a lot of things are a drag right now, but I assure you the expense of what we do isn't because I'm runnin' around in a vintage Ferrari Mille Miglia, lighting Havanas with hundred dollar bills! Without Tony and Ellen, there'd BE no Stephen Paul Audio anymore, and without you guys and gals and the industry not =completely= forgetting who we are, I'd have gone under long ago.
There's more, but I'll leave it at that 'cos I really gotta go pee! Among other things.
And if you wonder how I made mp3 files sound the way I did, (hey you might think they suck, too!) sign the guestbook and ask, and I'm plannning a little post on my .org area about how to make good-sounding mpegs. It can be done!
Ooooohhh (crossing legs).... yeah!
Later, and thanks for the interesting whatever this is! And I WILL come back as soon as I have some time for those who asked and explain my comment about the mikes which are the real subject of this thread...
God bless, and love and kisses from (temporarily) Nashville,
Stephen
http://www.mp3.com/stephenpaul
S
s_paul
New member
PS
Fragility... not a problem... only in maufacturing. Our warranty (the only one of its kind on the planet, I assure you,) is =exactly= the same for all membrane thicknesses.
On the cut 'The Awakening', the kick is miked with a 0.9 micron M-249 six feet back.
Film at 11...
Stephen
Fragility... not a problem... only in maufacturing. Our warranty (the only one of its kind on the planet, I assure you,) is =exactly= the same for all membrane thicknesses.
On the cut 'The Awakening', the kick is miked with a 0.9 micron M-249 six feet back.
Film at 11...
Stephen
R
Recording Engineer
Moderator
Gees Stephen
I tell you... I ALWAYS find your posts BOTH informative AND funny and the same time... A little "twisted" at times if you would, but I love it!
Sure glad to see 'round these parts again!
Weston Ray aka Recording Engineer (RE)
I tell you... I ALWAYS find your posts BOTH informative AND funny and the same time... A little "twisted" at times if you would, but I love it!
Sure glad to see 'round these parts again!
Weston Ray aka Recording Engineer (RE)
alanhyatt
PMI Audio Group
MrZekeMan
What I mean by the real world is many people forget what all of this is about. Sure, this is about gear, but it should be about the music, the songs, and the engineering tips used to make the music and songs. That is how all of you will learn your craft, unless you go work for a recording studio like all of us old timers did.
There are many great manufactures, but the problem I have at RAP, and not with everyone mind you, but they seem to think to get a great recording, you have to use a $5k mic, and a $6k mic pre. They put everything else down most of the time if it is not some expensive gear, then they claim it is this gear that gives them the signature sound. What signature sound is this?
The fact is if your a great engineer, you will get great sounds out of the gear you have. If you were to go to the actual session of the current #1 hit song on Billboard, and re-did the lead vocal, or other instrument tracks using a $200 to $500 mic, with a $500 channel strip, the song would still be #1. Please remember, I did not say my mics, I said any $200 to $500 mic.
Sure, expensive gear is fun, and sounds good, but expensive gear will not make the song a hit. If the song is good, and it is produced well, I don't care if you record it on a VS1680, or look at the demo John Jurgenson and Davy Johnston did on a Sony 4-Track MiniDisc. Yes a MiniDisk, and I have the CD of it. If the engineer is good, that song will sound great and could end up to be a hit.
The sooner these guys on RAP and other bb's realize this, and stop trashing products they have not listened to, and stop bashing low end gear, the better off we all will be. Because then they can start giving you all the engineering tips that work, and those tips work with most any mics, not just $5k ones. That is what this is all about.
Now we all love to talk about technical stuff, and that is fine. You have great guys on this group like Steven Paul, Harvey Gerst, Dan Richards, and myself with years of experience, and we are happy to give you the technical information, but not at the expense of being bashed, or being accused of reviewers being on the take that say good things, or whatever.
You either like the gear, or you don't. One man's opinion is just that. Take it for what its worth, but make sure the person giving the opinion has used the gear he is offering his opinion on. Then it is not bashing, it is just saying that you like this mic over this mic for whatever the reason is.
I am getting ready to post the technical reason why we use plastics on the C1 capsule, just as the TLM103 uses, as does Sennheiser, and some others. Its not about screws, or brass backplates as my post will explain.
In any case Zeke, that is why. I hope it makes sense to you.
What I mean by the real world is many people forget what all of this is about. Sure, this is about gear, but it should be about the music, the songs, and the engineering tips used to make the music and songs. That is how all of you will learn your craft, unless you go work for a recording studio like all of us old timers did.
There are many great manufactures, but the problem I have at RAP, and not with everyone mind you, but they seem to think to get a great recording, you have to use a $5k mic, and a $6k mic pre. They put everything else down most of the time if it is not some expensive gear, then they claim it is this gear that gives them the signature sound. What signature sound is this?
The fact is if your a great engineer, you will get great sounds out of the gear you have. If you were to go to the actual session of the current #1 hit song on Billboard, and re-did the lead vocal, or other instrument tracks using a $200 to $500 mic, with a $500 channel strip, the song would still be #1. Please remember, I did not say my mics, I said any $200 to $500 mic.
Sure, expensive gear is fun, and sounds good, but expensive gear will not make the song a hit. If the song is good, and it is produced well, I don't care if you record it on a VS1680, or look at the demo John Jurgenson and Davy Johnston did on a Sony 4-Track MiniDisc. Yes a MiniDisk, and I have the CD of it. If the engineer is good, that song will sound great and could end up to be a hit.
The sooner these guys on RAP and other bb's realize this, and stop trashing products they have not listened to, and stop bashing low end gear, the better off we all will be. Because then they can start giving you all the engineering tips that work, and those tips work with most any mics, not just $5k ones. That is what this is all about.
Now we all love to talk about technical stuff, and that is fine. You have great guys on this group like Steven Paul, Harvey Gerst, Dan Richards, and myself with years of experience, and we are happy to give you the technical information, but not at the expense of being bashed, or being accused of reviewers being on the take that say good things, or whatever.
You either like the gear, or you don't. One man's opinion is just that. Take it for what its worth, but make sure the person giving the opinion has used the gear he is offering his opinion on. Then it is not bashing, it is just saying that you like this mic over this mic for whatever the reason is.
I am getting ready to post the technical reason why we use plastics on the C1 capsule, just as the TLM103 uses, as does Sennheiser, and some others. Its not about screws, or brass backplates as my post will explain.
In any case Zeke, that is why. I hope it makes sense to you.
MrZekeMan
New member
alanhyatt said:
It makes perfect sense to me Alan. I see your point. It is rather unfair to trash something you haven't used.
I had the pleasure of meeting Harvey Gerst today. I went to his studio and he showed me around, and let me listen to some of the stuff he's engineered. Then we sat down and shot the breeze for a while. It sure was nice to have a guy with a gold record hanging on the wall in his control room to take time to visit with me.
I also have a new found appreciation for Steven Paul after talking to Harvey. He explained to me about how Steven stands above all the these big mic manufacturers. And how they're always there taking notes everytime he has anything to say about mic building.
Harvey calls him the Steven Hawking of mics. Another analogy might be the Michael Jordin of mics. Nobody can touch him.
After leaving Harvey's I found my heart burning to own a Steven Paul Neumann. (Of course it's a Neumann in name only after he gets through with it) But that's just out of reach for me. So I have to rely on Low end equipment. So I appreciate cheap priced gear that I can get good results from.
That's the beauty of this forum. We have guys like Harvey who evaluate all the cheap stuff to help separate the crap from the decent stuff. It certainly gives us a good reference point for when we start looking to buy gear. We know which direction to look in, or listen in. And for some of us it's really helpful, because we're not in an area where we have access to listening to different gear before we buy.
I appreciate your comments about getting good results from a VS-1680, I just bought a VS-2480. There is some pretty incredible stuff on the Rec.audio.pro compilation cd's recorded on the VS machines, even the 880's.
I have a lot to learn. But I think the journey will be a blast. I didn't get into this to be satisfied with crap sounding recordings. So everything I do to improve my tracking from here on out will be exciting to me.
I'm gonna order one of your mics. I'm gonna order me a couple of MXL-603s's tomorrow too. (today)
Does anyone know where I can get the C1 for the cheapest price shipped?
g'night everyone.
Zeke
(Taylor Miller)
sjoko2
New member
First = The Song
Second = The Performer / Performance
Third = The performance of the engineer
Fourth = The recording environment (acoustics)
Fifth = The Gear
Personally, I think there is a huge gap between 1,2 and 3 and the rest. Some stories in support:
In my 3rd year of recording (many decades ago) I was fortunate enough to record (and get some points!) a band with one really good song. It was simple, anyone could play it, recorded on an 8 track machine, in one go, no dubs, nothing. Became #1 worldwide, a cover years later also became #1 worldwide.
Its all about the song.......................
One song which is supposedly a "standard" - We couldn't get the sound we wanted on the drums. Got the old live board out, the mics we used live (not a patch on Island Studio's gear), hooked it up and send 2 channels back to the studio console. This song is known for its awsome drum sound.
Another 'classic' was recorded using an old AKG on the kick, and 2 414's as room mics - that's all, but we recorded it in an old castle, stone walls and a high ceiling - sounds awsome.
I've got some awsome "special" mics available. Does NOT mean I always use them. One well known singer I often work with sounds better through a 57 with a good preamp than through anything costing thousands I've tried on him.... so we use the 57.
I've made record on high end analogue gear, high end digital gear, pro tools, a Mackie D8B and a bunch of ADATs. Is one better then the other? From an audiophile point of view, yes. Could you hear the difference? Unlikely on the finished product, unless you have very good trained ears.
Go and listen to Destiny Child's new CD .... a big hit.... sounds like ....
Work to the best of your ability with what you've got, get the basics of your chain right, then save up for some higher end gear. And don't forget - the best mic sounds like hell on a system that doesn't have the basics right.
Oh ..... SP? Can I try one of your dia's on one of my Stayne mics?
I have a feeling Stayne's circuit with your dia might just set the world on fia!
Second = The Performer / Performance
Third = The performance of the engineer
Fourth = The recording environment (acoustics)
Fifth = The Gear
Personally, I think there is a huge gap between 1,2 and 3 and the rest. Some stories in support:
In my 3rd year of recording (many decades ago) I was fortunate enough to record (and get some points!) a band with one really good song. It was simple, anyone could play it, recorded on an 8 track machine, in one go, no dubs, nothing. Became #1 worldwide, a cover years later also became #1 worldwide.
Its all about the song.......................
One song which is supposedly a "standard" - We couldn't get the sound we wanted on the drums. Got the old live board out, the mics we used live (not a patch on Island Studio's gear), hooked it up and send 2 channels back to the studio console. This song is known for its awsome drum sound.
Another 'classic' was recorded using an old AKG on the kick, and 2 414's as room mics - that's all, but we recorded it in an old castle, stone walls and a high ceiling - sounds awsome.
I've got some awsome "special" mics available. Does NOT mean I always use them. One well known singer I often work with sounds better through a 57 with a good preamp than through anything costing thousands I've tried on him.... so we use the 57.
I've made record on high end analogue gear, high end digital gear, pro tools, a Mackie D8B and a bunch of ADATs. Is one better then the other? From an audiophile point of view, yes. Could you hear the difference? Unlikely on the finished product, unless you have very good trained ears.
Go and listen to Destiny Child's new CD .... a big hit.... sounds like ....
Work to the best of your ability with what you've got, get the basics of your chain right, then save up for some higher end gear. And don't forget - the best mic sounds like hell on a system that doesn't have the basics right.
Oh ..... SP? Can I try one of your dia's on one of my Stayne mics?
I have a feeling Stayne's circuit with your dia might just set the world on fia!
MrZekeMan
New member
I love it when you give examples from your personal experience.
I hate it when you don't name drop in the process.
Can you at least tell us what the #1 hit was?
Zeke
I hate it when you don't name drop in the process.
Can you at least tell us what the #1 hit was?
Zeke
tubedude
New member
123
I think White Lion remade it later on... heres a hint...
dun dun dun dun (drumroll) dun dun dun dun... that help?
I guess I wont say if HE wont say...
I think White Lion remade it later on... heres a hint...
dun dun dun dun (drumroll) dun dun dun dun... that help?
I guess I wont say if HE wont say...
MrZekeMan
New member
I'm thinking Radar Love.
tubedude
New member
123
Dude! Has anyone actually listened to SP's stuff? I just clicked on the 1st song I saw(once in a lifetime), and man... I'm impressed at the quality, even the backing vocals are superb. That super detailed vocal sound is EXACTLY what I'm after, that more-than-just-the-voice sound and I'm-sitting-in-the-room with ya sound... its like I can hear throat sounds and lung rattle and all kinds of naturalness in it. Must be those great 1-micron mics. Well, thats what I want! I've heard one other person on here get that, and its Sjoko, with a $3000 mic.
Stephen, you gotta hook a broke-ass brother up! I'll love ya forever!
I'll be calling you soonfor some prices...
sigh... now I won't be able to sleep again.... money money money... it never ends... I had kids too young. All of you under 25 people, wear a rubber! Abstain! Don't have kids yet!
Peace,
Paul
Dude! Has anyone actually listened to SP's stuff? I just clicked on the 1st song I saw(once in a lifetime), and man... I'm impressed at the quality, even the backing vocals are superb. That super detailed vocal sound is EXACTLY what I'm after, that more-than-just-the-voice sound and I'm-sitting-in-the-room with ya sound... its like I can hear throat sounds and lung rattle and all kinds of naturalness in it. Must be those great 1-micron mics. Well, thats what I want! I've heard one other person on here get that, and its Sjoko, with a $3000 mic.
Stephen, you gotta hook a broke-ass brother up! I'll love ya forever!
I'll be calling you soonfor some prices...sigh... now I won't be able to sleep again.... money money money... it never ends... I had kids too young. All of you under 25 people, wear a rubber! Abstain! Don't have kids yet!
Peace,
Paul
Shailat
New member
Alan,
I have a different outlook on the matter.
Gear can play an impotant part and should.
A #1 song on the charts says nothing about it's quality.
I bring that up becuase I think there are 2 levels of awareness
in audio.
There is the average Joe who couldnt tell the difference between
a song recorded with a $200 mic and there are people who make a world name for them selfs alike SP who devoted a good part of their life to advancing the qualities of mics from good to excellent.
Your concept is correct only for the average Joe who puts his speakers in impossible places....buys them due to the matching color of his sofa.....buys a sub so he can feel the bass break his
wifes new vase...etc...etc....
For people that are aware of the fine details and CARE even more about them (what I like to call "The asthetics of sound"),
every small detail is a relegion for them.
Expensive gear will usualy bring results that are harder to achive
with poor made gear which tends to be cheaper......
The musicians playing using excellent gear will play much better
then with gear that sounds just OK. This isnt a sientific but I can tell you from my experiense it is so.
When a singer hears a godly mic and she has the capability to sing godly, SHE WILL.
Give her a ok mix with a ok mic and she wont. imple ......
Give a drummer a fine tuned high quality kit abd he will fire away.....
I'm not knocking $200 mics. Maybe some are better then $2000 mics. I dont know... I have never went through all the mics in the world but I can tell you that there is gear I would like to work with and there is some not. To my deepest sorrow the gear I like is expensive (if not over priced).
If SP would sell his modifed mics for $200 I would buy a dozen.
Ask yourself why he doesnt..........or better yet let him explain to us all why they are worth way over $200.
A friend of mine modifies pre's. The other day he called me and and told with about the Telefunken he has just finished and he was drooling at the mouth and I mean drooling!!!!!!.
Warm...balh blah....exciting sound...blah blah ...fucking amazing....etc....
Joe shmo couldnt care less.......Rolan vs880, "2", minidisk....
But my friend and I...... we find the part of the esthetics a large part of the enjoyment of sound.
I would rather be excited from good music on a minidisk then bad on a Pro Tool system running through the best converter in the world. But I would rather have a good song on good gear.
So would most musicians who spend $$$$$$$ on their instrument and dont buy the latest $200 guitar.
I wonder if Perelman and Zuckerman would easily give up their
violins that cost them over a million bucks, and I have heard them play 2 meters in front of me on $1000 violins as well........
It sounded good, but not good enough for them.
I have a different outlook on the matter.
Gear can play an impotant part and should.
A #1 song on the charts says nothing about it's quality.
I bring that up becuase I think there are 2 levels of awareness
in audio.
There is the average Joe who couldnt tell the difference between
a song recorded with a $200 mic and there are people who make a world name for them selfs alike SP who devoted a good part of their life to advancing the qualities of mics from good to excellent.
Your concept is correct only for the average Joe who puts his speakers in impossible places....buys them due to the matching color of his sofa.....buys a sub so he can feel the bass break his
wifes new vase...etc...etc....
For people that are aware of the fine details and CARE even more about them (what I like to call "The asthetics of sound"),
every small detail is a relegion for them.
Expensive gear will usualy bring results that are harder to achive
with poor made gear which tends to be cheaper......
The musicians playing using excellent gear will play much better
then with gear that sounds just OK. This isnt a sientific but I can tell you from my experiense it is so.
When a singer hears a godly mic and she has the capability to sing godly, SHE WILL.
Give her a ok mix with a ok mic and she wont. imple ......
Give a drummer a fine tuned high quality kit abd he will fire away.....
I'm not knocking $200 mics. Maybe some are better then $2000 mics. I dont know... I have never went through all the mics in the world but I can tell you that there is gear I would like to work with and there is some not. To my deepest sorrow the gear I like is expensive (if not over priced).
If SP would sell his modifed mics for $200 I would buy a dozen.
Ask yourself why he doesnt..........or better yet let him explain to us all why they are worth way over $200.
A friend of mine modifies pre's. The other day he called me and and told with about the Telefunken he has just finished and he was drooling at the mouth and I mean drooling!!!!!!.
Warm...balh blah....exciting sound...blah blah ...fucking amazing....etc....
Joe shmo couldnt care less.......Rolan vs880, "2", minidisk....
But my friend and I...... we find the part of the esthetics a large part of the enjoyment of sound.
I would rather be excited from good music on a minidisk then bad on a Pro Tool system running through the best converter in the world. But I would rather have a good song on good gear.
So would most musicians who spend $$$$$$$ on their instrument and dont buy the latest $200 guitar.
I wonder if Perelman and Zuckerman would easily give up their
violins that cost them over a million bucks, and I have heard them play 2 meters in front of me on $1000 violins as well........
It sounded good, but not good enough for them.
MrZekeMan
New member
Shailat said:
Did he just call me Joe shmo????
Shailat,
It's not that Joe couldn't care less. Joe would love to be recording with the SP mic in the $500,000 building with the $250,000 worth of equipment.
All Joe can afford is the $3,500 VS machine. And it tapped him out so bad, all he can afford for now is some Chinese mics and a SM57.
But the beauty of the matter exists in two things.
The first is described above in sjoko2's post. The music and the peformance and the engineering are far removed from even the acoustics and gear. And this is coming from a guy that's tracked #1 hits.
The second is the technological advancements that have been make in cheap gear in recent years. Some of these DAW's are giving home recordest the quality and the ability that even pro's didn't possess not too many years ago. The same is true with mics.
When you have guys with the experience of Harvey Gerst giving thumbs up on some of these mics, that's because they are decent sounding mics. Not Steven Paul mics by any stretch, but decent.
I would love to have the Big House, with the big mics, and the big setup. But, I will be a happy camper if I can achieve the results that I've heard on some of the 880 machines.
Zeke shmo
MrZekeMan
New member
Hey somebody posted this site on Rec.audio.pro. It's pretty funny.
It describes the profiles of different flame warriors.
Does this one here sound familiar?
http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame28.html
It describes the profiles of different flame warriors.
Does this one here sound familiar?
http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame28.html
Shailat
New member
MrZekeman,
No reference to you.
No reference to you.
MrZekeMan
New member
Shailat said:
No prob Shailat. I was just teasing. I didn't take it as a personal slight.
I'm pretty thick skinned. I wouldn't have been upset even if I had thought it was directed at me.
Taylor
sjoko2
New member
Make no mistake, I love high end gear, and one of the worse moments of my life was having a large flightcase filled with mic I had collected over the years stolen. 36 mics, from good'ol 57's to Neumanns, Telefunkens, a Church and a bunch more vintage and modified stuff. I thought every single thing I recorded in the years after that sucked!
Gear can be important. The problem is, I KNOW I'd rather hear something recorded by a good engineer on reasonable gear, then something by a run-of-the-mill engineer on top quality equipment. I still think there are more mainframe consoles in the world then there are good engineers, unfortunately.
And.... it really is possible now to put a recording chain together that sounds good, for a very reasonable amount of money.
The problem is that people still don't know how to put a basic system together properly, and start spending money on irrelevant things. If I plug an 8000$ mic and pre combo into a system with bad converters, a system that has not been calibrated properly etc. etc., it will sound like a bad converter etc.
That's all.
Apart from that ...... good gear is fun and something you can enjoy always, for a long time. Like, if you buy one of SP's or Stayne's mics, you know you have something in the "absolute best available" catagory. Amazing how equipment like that makes the shortcomings of a recording chain audible!
Gear can be important. The problem is, I KNOW I'd rather hear something recorded by a good engineer on reasonable gear, then something by a run-of-the-mill engineer on top quality equipment. I still think there are more mainframe consoles in the world then there are good engineers, unfortunately.
And.... it really is possible now to put a recording chain together that sounds good, for a very reasonable amount of money.
The problem is that people still don't know how to put a basic system together properly, and start spending money on irrelevant things. If I plug an 8000$ mic and pre combo into a system with bad converters, a system that has not been calibrated properly etc. etc., it will sound like a bad converter etc.
That's all.
Apart from that ...... good gear is fun
and something you can enjoy always, for a long time. Like, if you buy one of SP's or Stayne's mics, you know you have something in the "absolute best available" catagory. Amazing how equipment like that makes the shortcomings of a recording chain audible!
