Tube amp brands

[Kingofpain678]

As said above, I'd spend time getting the guitar and amp (and pedals) right before splashing out money for the icing on top.

And KoP, just wondering, given your latest "financial liabilities", how do you even have money to spend on expensive tubes?

As in 10-15$ a tube? Jesus, how poor did you decide that I am?

 

[miroslav]

As in 10-15$ a tube? Jesus, how poor did you decide that I am?

EXACTLY!!!

I don't understand why people are going on and on about the high cost of tubes???
Sure, there are $500 quads of some mythical brand/vintage on eBay for the high-rollers (or maybe fools)...but like I already said, there are plenty of tubes that can be had for a few bucks each.
Heck, for a $100 you could by 2-3 sets worth for most amps.

Again...how much does a new set of pickups cost...or new speakers...or cabinets...?

 

[philbagg]

As in 10-15$ a tube? Jesus, how poor did you decide that I am?

I've never bought tubes before, I'd hardly know how much they cost.

 

[Outlaws]

Speakers can be demo'd in the store, which is perfectly fine for testing. Tubes cannot be demo'd period. End of story. Saying you can't test a speaker in your own home is moot.

I never said anything about $100-200 per tube collector items, I am talking about swapping out all the tubes in a modern 100watt amp can run you well over $100. A quad of JJ 6L6's runs about $70, tack on 4-6 preamp tubes and you are no longer way less than the price of a speaker. Make those NOS and you will easy hit $200+ on a retube without trying.

I never said they don't make a difference, and I would challenge anyone to argue against my stance relating tubes of the same type to that of Pantone colors.

 

[Kingofpain678]

Decide? WTF? Can't even ask a simple (concerned) question without some hostility Oh, and I've never bought tubes before, I'd hardly know how much they cost.

I wasn't trying to be hostile but I couldn't help but be a little offended...

 

[Kingofpain678]

Speakers can be demo'd in the store, which is perfectly fine for testing. Tubes cannot be demo'd period. End of story. Saying you can't test a speaker in your own home is moot.

I never said anything about $100-200 per tube collector items, I am talking about swapping out all the tubes in a modern 100watt amp can run you well over $100. A quad of JJ 6L6's runs about $70, tack on 4-6 preamp tubes and you are no longer way less than the price of a speaker. Make those NOS and you will easy hit $200+ on a retube without trying.

I never said they don't make a difference, and I would challenge anyone to argue against my stance relating tubes of the same type to that of Pantone colors.

My amp has 3 pre amp tubes and 4 power amp tubes. For preamp tubes it would cost me no more than 50$ ...

mind you this is for the more expensive tubes on MF

 

[philbagg]

I wasn't trying to be hostile but I couldn't help but be a little offended...

I just figured they cost more than $15

 

[Kingofpain678]

I just figured they cost more than $15

hmmm I'm sorry that you don't know how much a tube costs. my bad.

Maybe you should find that out before you call someone poor next time? and even if I were, is it fun to point that out?

 

[philbagg]

hmmm I'm sorry that you don't know how much a tube costs. my bad.

Maybe you should find that out before you call someone poor next time? and even if I were, is it fun to point that out?

.............

 

[Kingofpain678]

"No hard feelings" pfft...

I never said you were poor, just that (if a tube did cost a couple hundred) you might make better use of rubber tubes instead.

..........

 

[miroslav]

Speakers can be demo'd in the store, which is perfectly fine for testing. Tubes cannot be demo'd period. End of story. Saying you can't test a speaker in your own home is moot.

Be realistic...how many different speakers can you demo in a store?
They will all be in their own cabs (not your cab)...so what are you demoing?
Also...whatever it sounds like in the store it never sounds the same when you bring it home.
That's been proven time and time again.
The way I demo speakers is to find what is approximately close to what I’m looking for by reading specs/reviews…then I buy it…try it…and if I don’t like it, I sell it and buy something different.

I would challenge anyone to argue against my stance relating tubes of the same type to that of Pantone colors.

Whatever...
Your challenge has been met…and you lost.
As I've said...I have a couple of cases of tubes...pre, power and rectifier....and while some changes are subtle, others can be very dramatic...so put that in your box of Pantone colors!

Did you even read any of the tube info in the links I posted on amplifier blueprinting by Myles Rose? There's more than enough info there to meet/beat your "Pantone challenge".
And you know...sometimes a subtle change is all that is needed to take an amp from sounding good to sounding special, I know, I’ve swapped out dozens and dozens of tubes just to see how they sound.

 

[miroslav]

Back in December I purchased a Carr Hammerhead MKII.
The amp is awesome, and now that I've had it for awhile, I found all of its sweet spots, and I also did some tube swaps to adjust the front end a bit.
When I first got it I thought some of the Impact positions were a little too bright for my taste, so I wondered if Hammerhead's Impact positions could modified (then I learned that the more you crank the channel Volume, the Impact has less effect on tone, and the amp looses the edgy brightness)...but I sent an email to Steve Carr asking about it.

This is what he wrote:

Hello Miroslav
I think you will find the tubes do a lot.
Please keep in touch.
Best
Steve

Basically he was telling me to try different tubes in order to change the tone.


Kingofpain678
If I'm not mistaken, you Windsor is the 100W with (4) EL34 tubes...right?

You can try two things...

1. Readjust the bias a little warmer, as the Windsor is set on the cold side at the factory in order to extend tube life. Not sure what the actual mA settings range is on that amp (but I'm sure you can find info on the Peavey website/forums).
It's not hard to do, I set reset bias on all my fixed bias amps...but unless you know how to set bias and have the tools/meters...let a tech do it.

2.) Swap out the EL34 tubes for 6L6 tubes (which will also require a reset of the bias). The 6L6 tubes generally have a bolder/harder low end...while the EL34 tubes are a bit softer, but with extended rumble.

What brand of tubes are in the amp right now (pre and power)?

 

[DrewPeterson7]

Both....

Swap out many Sovtek 12AX7 tubes for something like a NOS Sylvania blackplate...and your tone goes from nasty/harsh to smooth/creamy.

I dunno'...to me...that's a MAJOR tone change.


Oh...I'm not quite sure why you don't recommend changing brands of 12AX7 tubes...???

Then maybe I've just had the good fortune never to use any REALLY bad tubes. I've heard slight but unmistakable differences, definitely, but nothing that radically changes the sound of an amp.

I wouldn't recommend "swapping brands of 12ax7s" unless you're already fundamentally happy with the tone, response, and feel of your amp, was my full comment, if you'll reread. A new brand of 12ax7 isn't going to turn a Fender Twin into a Dual Rectifier, or a JCM800 into a tweed Deluxe. Or, even, a JCM800 into a Mark-II or something with more similar gain structure. If the amp already basically does what you want it, but there's that little something missing, then definitely go ahead and play around with a few other brands of 12ax7s and see of one of them (or a combination of several) does something that gives your amp that little bit of extra mojo. But if you're playing a Fender Hot Rod and wondering if a tube swap will help you nail the Master of Puppets tone, then just sell your amp.

Does that make my stance any clearer?

 

[miroslav]

Then maybe I've just had the good fortune never to use any REALLY bad tubes. I've heard slight but unmistakable differences, definitely, but nothing that radically changes the sound of an amp.

I wouldn't recommend "swapping brands of 12ax7s" unless you're already fundamentally happy with the tone, response, and feel of your amp, was my full comment, if you'll reread. A new brand of 12ax7 isn't going to turn a Fender Twin into a Dual Rectifier, or a JCM800 into a tweed Deluxe. Or, even, a JCM800 into a Mark-II or something with more similar gain structure. If the amp already basically does what you want it, but there's that little something missing, then definitely go ahead and play around with a few other brands of 12ax7s and see of one of them (or a combination of several) does something that gives your amp that little bit of extra mojo. But if you're playing a Fender Hot Rod and wondering if a tube swap will help you nail the Master of Puppets tone, then just sell your amp.

Does that make my stance any clearer?

I don't know where annyone suggested you could comletely change one an amp into some totally different amp...just by swapping a preamp tube...though I'll be honest, the amps that allow several types of power tubes CAN give you substantially different sounding amps if you say, switch from a 5881 to 6V6 or KT66...etc...etc.

Back to your initial commment...I was mearly responding to your focus on *brand names*...IOW...you can even get differences from tube to tube even staying with the exact same brand!
Also...swapping tubes is NOT (I think I've said this a few times) just about fixing *bad* sounding amps. It's also about changing flavors (no matter how minor or major) just for the sake of changing flavors!

Ex:
I know that my Sylvania EL34 tubes sound very different than my JJ EL34L or my Philips EL34 or my Svetlana EL34 tubes...sooooooooo, I may put in one brand today for some recording purpose..and next week I may swap them out for a different brand.
Same thing goes with preamp tubes and certainly rectifier tubes.
My Sylvania/Baldwin 12AX7 tubes sound different then my JJ 12AX7 tubes.
Likewise...most amps that use rectifiers will often take more than one type...5Y3, 5AR4/GZ34, 5V4/GZ32, 5U4/GZ31...etc...so to change the character feel, I will swap out rectifier tubes...AND...if I also swap out the preamp and power amp tubes in various combinations, I can get a lot of differences all from one amp.

That ain't just make-believe or Internet hype...that's fact, though I agree there IS a lot of hype about tubes, so I can understand why some people are skeptical.
Mind you, many years ago when I was playing, I never gave the tubes a second thought. The amp powered up and that's all that mattered.
But...over the years I've learned about tubes and have taken the time (and $$$) to buy/try a LOT of tubes...now I know how much they CAN make a difference.

Does that make my stance any clearer?

Eh...you're not that close to me, otherwise I would say come on over and bring your favorite amps...we'll spend an afternoon trying out tubes from my stash.

I really see no reason for any big disagreements here. I agree with folks that other components of a guitar rig all play into your "sound"...but tubes can be the final 10-20% that make your sound go from *really good* to "I just wet my pants"...
To me...that's a major improvement.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

I don't know where annyone suggested you could comletely change one an amp into some totally different amp...

Sorry, your selective quotation and subsequent disagreement made it look rather like you were suggesting it.

 

[miroslav]

Maybe my use of the words "major change" implied it would sound a like a totally different amp with one tube swap...but I was mostly talking about changing the quality of the tone.
As I mentioned...I've removed a single nasty/harsh sounding12AX7 tube...and replaced it with something different which then made the amp very sweet/pleasant.
To me, that's a *major change* made by a simple tube swap.

Also...not sure what amps you have...but honestly... of the ones I have that can take various power and rectifier tubes...ahhhhh...I can come very close to making them sound like a different model amps when I swap out those tubes.
My THD Flexi is a total chameleon amp...it's quite amazing how different you can make it sound thanks to its ability to run on just about any type of guitar amp tube.

I've swapped tubes in my amps many, many times. I always test my tubes when I get them and write down their EM/GM values…though high/good values don’t always = the best sounding tubes, so I then pop them in and try ‘em out in my amps. Some amps sound better with one brand than another. It’s a lot of experimental tube “alchemy”, often with surprising results.
When l find a good tube combination for an amp, I make note of it...play it for awhile...then one day I'll swap them all out for a different combination and run with that for awhile.
I have my "nothing special tubes" that are rather neutral/generic, stuff that doesn’t sound either bad or exceptional. Then there are the "go to" tubes...which sound very good and I'll use most of the time. I also have some "select" tubes that I won't wear out with every day playing. I keep them for important recording sessions and special occasions...they are like 3-piece Sunday suits.

Sure…some will say all of that is a big waste of time and $$$, and just go with what they got, and that’s fine. I agree, much of the tone variations can be subtle to some ears, but then we all hear things a bit differently, don’t we? Sometimes it’s just that little bit of extra low-mid growl…or some upper end chime…etc, and it makes the amp PERFECT for YOUR ears.
I think it’s important for some folks…others just use Pods!

 

[Kingofpain678]

Kingofpain678
If I'm not mistaken, you Windsor is the 100W with (4) EL34 tubes...right?

You can try two things...

1. Readjust the bias a little warmer, as the Windsor is set on the cold side at the factory in order to extend tube life. Not sure what the actual mA settings range is on that amp (but I'm sure you can find info on the Peavey website/forums).
It's not hard to do, I set reset bias on all my fixed bias amps...but unless you know how to set bias and have the tools/meters...let a tech do it.

2.) Swap out the EL34 tubes for 6L6 tubes (which will also require a reset of the bias). The 6L6 tubes generally have a bolder/harder low end...while the EL34 tubes are a bit softer, but with extended rumble.

What brand of tubes are in the amp right now (pre and power)?

well they're all stock tubes...
The preamp tubes are JJ ECC 83 S
power amp tubes are Ruby EL34B STR

 

[ggunn]

I guess that here is a good place to interject a comment about the subjectivity of hearing. What is a major change to one person may very well be a subtlety to another, even if it's the same amp and the same tubes. Whatever blows your skirt up.

 

[miroslav]

I guess that here is a good place to interject a comment about the subjectivity of hearing. What is a major change to one person may very well be a subtlety to another, even if it's the same amp and the same tubes.

Exactly what I was getting at earlier...we all hear things differently.

Ex.
I hate brighter, treble tones...other guys will call that beautiful bell-like chime!

 

[Kingofpain678]

ex.
I hate brighter, treble tones...

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