to reduce or not to reduce?

[barbieparty]

just bought a tsr-8, now i am starting to record my rock group with it.

my question is, should i use noise reduction or not? i have heard several people say that it limits your sound levels, head room, etc....what is the standard way of using this during the recording to mastering process???

thanks!

 

[The Ghost of FM]

The dbx noise reduction that's built into the TSR-8 does use a two stage compression/expansion process that basically allows you to record much hotter and cleaner signals to tape without overloading the tape as you would if you by-passed it or turned it off.

If you are really good with your levels as your tracking and are recording straight ahead rock that's very constant in volume for all the parts, you might be able to get away without using the dbx and end up with a slightly more natural tone and response but, for any quiet parts in the music like at the head of track where a count in or quieter intro piece might precede the full on music, you will hear obvious tape hiss.

I use the dbx at all times on my two TASCAM open reel machines and have not suffered any ill effects from it. Indeed, I like the benefits of dbx in that is gives me as clean a noise floor and more headroom then even very high end digital recording formats and also gives less bleed-through on adjacent channels when overdubbing or bouncing.

Do a test recording of all 8 channels with and without it on and see what your ears tell you to do. I suspect you will conclude the same that I did and that is dbx gives more then it takes away.

Cheers!

 

[A Reel Person]

Use it on record and play back of all 8 tracks, unless you're running a sync track on

track 8, in which case you'd switch off dbx on track 8 only.

Don't listen to your friends. They don't know jack about the TSR-8 or noise reduction.

 

[Beck]

i have heard several people say that it limits your sound levels, head room, etc....

dbx actually increases headroom by about 10 dB. The dbx on the TSR-8 works very well and has a good rep for being better than most.

 

[barbieparty]

thanks for the replys! i suppose i will just test it, some of our stuff is loud throughout or at least constant volume, so i will see what it does for those songs. A reel person, I dont really understand your post, I should leave one track of dbx off?

 

[Herm]

You only need to turn the dbx off if you are going to be putting some time code like midi or smpte to run keyboards or sync a computer up to your Recorder.

I would turn the dbx on for all the recording and forget about it.
Just stay below the red on your meters.

 

[A Reel Person]

Dbx "On" during recording & playback.

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Dbx boosts headroom and S/N level. Forgot to mention that.

Thank you.

/DA

 

[cjacek]

You only need to turn the dbx off if you are going to be putting some time code like midi or smpte to run keyboards or sync a computer up to your Recorder.

I would turn the dbx on for all the recording and forget about it.
Just stay below the red on your meters.

I really like DBX but don't you think it kinda defeats the purpose of ANALOG recording ? What I mean by that is it then behaves like a digital recorder where, God forbid, you'd wanna go past zero or "into the red". Yeah, I can appreciate the fact that, even with DBX engaged, the sound of ANALOG will be nicer than digital but still ...

Also, when, to your best knowledge, did DBX and all those NR systems come into existence when we talk about reel to reels ?

Thanks,

Daniel

 

[The Ghost of FM]

I really like DBX but don't you think it kinda defeats the purpose of ANALOG recording ? What I mean by that is it then behaves like a digital recorder where, God forbid, you'd wanna go past zero or "into the red".

Daniel

The purpose of dbx noise reduction is to eliminate tape hiss. Not just reduce it as Dolby does.

The whole point of not going over 0db is to maintain a flat and trustworthy frequency response and to not induce encoding and decoding errors in the dbx circuitry.

It has nothing to do with sounding like digital or even behaving like digital in that the system was devised in the late 70's, before digital sound was in usage in recording studios.

Cheers!

 

[cjacek]

The purpose of dbx noise reduction is to eliminate tape hiss. Not just reduce it as Dolby does.

The whole point of not going over 0db is to maintain a flat and trustworthy frequency response and to not induce encoding and decoding errors in the dbx circuitry.

It has nothing to do with sounding like digital or even behaving like digital in that the system was devised in the late 70's, before digital sound was in usage in recording studios.

Cheers!

No doubt but I was just referring to not going past "0" when having DBX engaged, which is very much like digital, but for different technical reasons, and as you explained. What's the point ? I don't have any ..

Daniel

 

[barbieparty]

question: i was planning on getting some tape saturation on drums and bass (more specifically, bass drum, snare drum, and bass guitar), and i was going to push the meter +3 db or so. is this what you mean by "in the red"? if so, should i turn dbx off on these tracks since they will be saturated?

 

[A Reel Person]

I've not had any noticeable problem from pushing the red a bit with dbx engaged.

I'd just do it with the dbx on, & stick to it.

My drum tracks sound pretty slammin.

 

[cjacek]

question: i was planning on getting some tape saturation on drums and bass (more specifically, bass drum, snare drum, and bass guitar), and i was going to push the meter +3 db or so. is this what you mean by "in the red"? if so, should i turn dbx off on these tracks since they will be saturated?

Yes, going "into the red" means going past "0". Recording with DBX is a bit different to recording with it off. Because of the initial compression and then expansion of the signal (DBX "on") you're gonna cause tracking errors the more you go "into the red". However, if you're going for "tape saturation" (going significantly past "0"), I'd definitely turn the DBX off. I think that if you have a hot enough signal then DBX is optional. However, if you're recording a piano or a signal that at times gets quiet, then you'd wanna engage DBX. It also depends on the speed you're tracking at. Obviously, you'd wanna go at least 7 1/2 - 15 ips to see real benefits in not only "tape saturation" but also in S/N ratio. I know that on a good reel to reel recorder (34B in my case) with good tape (Quantegy 456) and running at 15", there is little tape hiss and you can push the meters waaaaaay into the red without distortion and still get the nice "tape saturation" effects. Damn, even at 7 1/2 ips it sounds great.

Daniel

 

[barbieparty]

i will definitly be running at 15 ips, never any less for any reason...and using quantegy 456, and i would assume the tsr-8 is at least of medium quality....

it sounds like kind of a torn issue, i will have to test this out....

 

[cjacek]

i will definitly be running at 15 ips, never any less for any reason...and using quantegy 456, and i would assume the tsr-8 is at least of medium quality....

it sounds like kind of a torn issue, i will have to test this out....

The TSR-8 is a fine unit and will give you MUCH better and fuller than CD quality recordings, provided you know what you're doing. I think that engaging DBX and having occassional peaks at around "0" and even up to "+3" will not cause probs. I'd, however, not go any higher "into the red" while the DBX is on. Turn the DBX off if you plan to really crunch it into the red ...

Daniel