The Starving Vegan Rescue Squad

TripleM

Well-known member
And if you could, please take a special listen to the main crunch guitar. I hate my guitar sound and it really frustrates me. My sound is too glassy and boarderline scratchy. I can't get what I want. I have the equipment. It's pretty standard: Les Paul Traditional (bridge pickup), Marshall DSL40C, SM57.

I should be able to get a nice warm crunch sound. But I can't. Any ideas? Is it the player (me)? Playing style? Mic position? What? Any thoughts would be welcomed.
 

easlern

Boredom artist
I haven't listened to your mix yet triplem but have you tried a condenser on the guitar? The 57 always sounds a little brash to me, I started using a condenser and it really came to life.
 

Robus

New member
Good song and playing all around, guys. Here's what jumps out at me. Bass is too loud and is drowning out the kick drumm. The doubled rhythm guitars are very dry. Some tweaking of the relative levels of the guitars, bass, and vocals might pay off. There are some things getting drowned out in the background, for example a keyboard part(?). Personally, I'd bring the guitars and bass down slightly to give more room for those background parts as well as your lead vocal.

The guitars didn't sound bad. I have that amp too. Are you looking for a lower gain, more crunchy sound? Are you using any pedals? The doubled rhythm guitars also sound like there's fuzz.
 

JohnnyAmato

New member
Cool tune.

I think the guitars sound pretty good actually, maybe a little dark, but still good. I get kind of a 70's vibe, in a good way. When I record, I get all my guitar sounds direct from a Digitech GNX3000, so I can't be much help as far as mic placement, etc. But adding some highs might make them crunch a little better, somewhere in the 3-5000k range maybe? More of a preference thing, I think, because they sound pretty good as is- they fit the tune well in my ears.

I don't necessarily think the bass is too high, but the kick needs to come up, maybe even the whole kit. I'd even bring the lead vocals up a tad.

Some of this could be nitpicking, but the kick definitely needs to punch a little more. I listened to it literally 3 or 4 times in a row, then came back a few hours later and listened two more times. Nice work.
 

ibleedburgundy

The Anti-Lambo
I am listening on ear buds now. Will listen on monitors tonight.

Dude I like the guitar sound. It sounds like you boosted in the 240Hz area and maybe added a touch of reverb relative to the gits I tracked to?

One thing orchestration-wise - the leads at the beginning and the one that brings the song back to the beginning kind of create a little mud when combined with the rhythm guitar. Did you experiment with playing that line an octave higher?

One thing about the groove - I think I am too far on the back end of the beats. I could re-track but I am wondering if it would sound tighter if you slid all the drum tracks forward by something small - like 5-8 ms or so.
 

TripleM

Well-known member
easlern - I've tried condensers before (Oktava MK-012). To me, it was worse. I do have a nice Shure condenser (my vocal mic). I suppose I could try that.

Robus - thank you. Yes I'm looking for a different crunch sound. I always get a glassy upper-midrange. I'm glad most people are saying they like it. But I know there is a better sound. And no, I don't use any pedals.

Johnny - since both you and Robus think the bass is winning the fight with the kick, I should do something about it.

IBB - Nice idea about moving the riff up an octave. I didn't think about it myself. But I'll bet it would sound better. I didn't notice your beats lagging. I thought it sounded good. Just an FYI tho... I *did* slide your snare bottom track up a few msec. I zoomed in to see how the snare top/bottom tracks lined up with each other phase-wise. I noticed that the bottom was, typically, a few wave crests behind the top. I just lined them up visually, rather than trying to flip the phase. The guitar tracks on this version are a retrack from what I sent you. Interesting though, I gave these a boost at 230hz.

I'm going to spend some time working on crunch guitar sounds. Maybe in a few weeks, I'll put up another version of this.

Listen to a typical Green Day track, and A/B it with my guitars. I think you'll hear what I'm talking about - my glassy sound.
 

andrushkiwt

Well-known member
Have you tried a stereo chorus double of the lead vocal? Not a true double, just copy and paste the vocal but put a stereo chorus on it and turn it waaaaaay down. like -15db lower than clean vocal. Right now, i think the lead vocal sounds crammed in the middle, like it's being pushed on all sides.

I didn't mind the guitars much at all, didn't sound too scratchy to me. The kick, however, I can hardly hear.

nice melody and theme dude
 

BroKen_H

Re-member
I would listen, but my "free dropbox" is saying I have to upgrade to "pro" for $99 a year within 3 days and won't let me see anything that's on dropbox pages besides those messages...not likely to get my money that way.
 

robgreen

no face
Good to hear something new from you Trip. I hear what you mean with the guitars being on the edge of fizz - the tone is in no way terrible though. what happened when you just tracked with a little less gain? I'm guessing you already tried that and it didn't work for you.

It mostly sounds really good. The things that stood out for me as needing tweaks were firstly the cowbell in the intro. I think it's a little too loud and slightly out of the groove in spots (like around 0.20). I agree about the bass too, could come down a notch.

Vocals and lyrics are good as usual, nice layers. I don't know how you didn't run out of breath on some of those long passages.
 

Bulls Hit

Well-known member
Random thoughts from me on headphones.....I quite like the rhythm tones and the lead tone is great. Doesn't sound like you're using too much gain. Check the mic position on the speaker - too close to the cone can make it fizzy. For some reason the chorus is not doing it for me. The verse parts are solid, but there's not enough of a melodic 'lift' in the chorus. I like the vocal performance in the verses. Drums, kick in particular could be more prominent
 

TripleM

Well-known member
Andrus - no I haven't tried a chorus on a vocal. I've always preferred true doubling. Let me give it another listen with what you said in mind.

Broken - that was kind of a weird message. I'll check the settings on that file - maybe I can tweak the permissions. I'd like to get your comments.

robgreen - I think you're hearing what I'm hearing on the guitars. Not "full on" scratchy, but not a smooth upper midrange either. And yeah, less gain and the tone gets too clean.

Bullsy - thanks for that advice. I put the mic right on the grill. I wonder if moving it back just a bit might really help. I did some experimenting with tone settings. I turned down the tone on the guitar and turned up the treble/presence on the amp. So more of the upper midrange comes from the amp and less from the guitar. It was a bit of a help. I think I might move the mic back an inch too and compare. Again - thanks for the advice.

I'll probably let this thread sink, do a retrack of the guitars (including playing the riff an octave higher) and put another version up later.
 

VomitHatSteve

Hat STYLE. Not contents.
I'm ok with the guitar tone, but if you don't like it, that's what's important.

+1 on the kick being pretty quiet. I wouldn't bring up the whole kit tho because those cymbals probably shouldn't get louder.

A few words got kinda buried, like "Steven" right at the beginning.

Also, if your vegan friends are having trouble feeding themselves, there are resources for that. :D
 

BroKen_H

Re-member
Yeah, when I click on you (or any other) dropbox link I get this message above a blank page:
The 48 GB you received with your Samsung device expires in 2 days. Get a special offer if you upgrade to Dropbox Pro before then!

Doesn't matter how much other space I have, that 48 GB is about to disappear so I am not allowed to see anything. Really frustrating.
 

easlern

Boredom artist
Sounds good TripleM, great song. I think the crunch guitar sounds great, that's just the marshall sound I think, kind of woolly. I wonder if you might need a different amp to get the sound you're looking for.
 

chrisharris

King of Bling
It's in no way bad, so don't let the following critique mislead you into thinking that I think it's fucked up.

Some of this may come down to taste - I personally like a grittier electric tone for this. You say it sounds glassy...I say it sounds glossy. I can totally hear the guitars and the stereo spread...they just seem smallish to me, and that may be because of the volume of the vocal. It's a very upfront vocal, and you mix your bg vox like a folk band. That's a style thing, and I do it too, but you sort of have to choose. If you want something that sounds pop/rock with bigger guitars (maybe you don't), something has to give a little.

I'm learning late in life about recording electrics. I got an amp I like and a few single coil guitars, but the sound I love in the room is not the sound that seems to work best in a mix for me. Seems like I eventually end up using the bridge pickup for rhythm parts that are distorted. But again, I'm going for more on an Old 97's vibe than you are.

I'm also experimenting with bringing my bg vocals way back, to put some more focus on the rest of the fake band that I'm trying to create sonically.

Anyway...totally competent recording, and please don't think otherwise. It just seems smallish to me, and I think that's a vocal level/energy thing.
 

chrisharris

King of Bling
Also, the timing on the lead is pretty loose between :18-27 seconds. I mention it because that did actually bug me.
 
Good song! I like the style. I think the guitars sound good, they could be more brutal punky sounding but they are distorted and clear at the same time. Never liked the sound of the sm57 on guitar amps-sennheiser makes a pretty cheap mic the 906? 609? that I like much better. The groove varies in the beginning- the cowbell seems like a click track left on. I see he's willing to re-do them I would take him up on it...Drums sound good, maybe some more accents to follow the vocs and guits. The only thing that stands out to me is the melody of the bridge-you are seriously straining there, I would have redone that section after a good run around the block or changed the melody to something more manageable. Good catchy chorus, the high notes kind of soften it up a bit, I would of tucked them back a bit.
 

TripleM

Well-known member
Thanks guys. Geez, am I the only guy who hates that guitar sound? I guess I don't hate it - I just want something different.

Anyway, I have some things to try.

VHS - your link proves there is a video of everything on youtube. :)
 
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