The New Tone Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Telegram Sam
  • Start date Start date
Actually I was wrong, that wasn't black dog, it was The Ocean...

So, how would I know if my amp is set up for el34 or 6550? I bought el34 tubes for it, but I guess I have no idea which its set up for...

On the Eurotubes website, they have an excellent video where they use a 2204 as an example in how to calculate and set the bias. I bought their bias probe that shows the current and the plate voltage. I figure it would make for the least amount of a novice poking around inside a live amp.
 
Tadpui said:
Actually I was wrong, that wasn't black dog, it was The Ocean.
Click to expand...

Yeah, heard it yesterday. It's "The Ocean", not "Black Dog". Hard for me to comment on that because it was the weirdest version of the Ocean I've ever heard. :D

I'll let Greg and Tad comment on it, which they already did. I wasn't even sure what I was supposed to be listening for. :)
 
Haha, see, I told ya. I have no idea what famous songs are called. The Ocean, Black Dog, I'd never guess either in a million years.

TAD - By the time your 2204 was being made, basically the third generation of that circuit, fourth if you count 1976 as a one-year only gen 1, I think Marshall had probably gone back to EL34s by mid 80s. I could be wrong, but I believe EL34s were showing back up by then for US amps. The only reason Marshall got away from EL34s for overseas amps is they weren't as readily available or as durable for shipping as 6550s.

Anyway, I'm sure your amp is probably fine, but to check it you need to find your grid leak resistors. For EL34 they should be 220k. For 6550 they should be 150k.

This schematic is for older design and your layout is different, but the values should be the same.
http://mhuss.com/MyJCM/JCM800_2204.pdf


Edit - Just looked at your pics in your new amp thread. Yours does look to be properly set up for EL34s, so no worries!
 
Last edited:
RAMI said:
Yeah, heard it yesterday. It's "The Ocean", not "Black Dog". Hard for me to comment on that because it was the weirdest version of the Ocean I've ever heard. :D

I'll let Greg and Tad comment on it, which they already did. I wasn't even sure what I was supposed to be listening for. :)
Click to expand...
wasn't supposed to be listening for anything ...... it's just something I did as an experiment.
In your case .... don't listen if you think I was trying to do a version of The Ocean ..... I made it clear what I was doing and trying to replicate the Ocean wasn't it ..... it was just experimenting with sound.
If you're not gonna comment then don't comment instead of throwing out a veiled insult and then saying you're not gonna comment.

Let's hear you do a first take solo over something like that ...... exactly two wrong notes in the entire ride ..... you couldn't do it so have a little courtesy ....... I'm always VERY complimentary to your stuff and you never fail to get snotty to me when you get the chance.

Fuck you ......
 
Was that a canned backing track of The Ocean...or done from scratch?
It was kinda "soft"...sorta like America meets Led Zeppelin. :D

The talk box stuff was cool...though IMO, they should have discontinued those things after Frampton stuck one in his mouth. :p

Here's the top 10 Talk box songs:

Top 10 Talk Box Songs
 
Also tadpui - I don't mean to worry you about your amp or overload you with info. I'm just saying, these amps are old now, and sometimes they've been tinkered with.
 
Lt. Bob said:
wasn't supposed to be listening for anything ...... it's just something I did as an experiment.
In your case .... don't listen if you think I was trying to do a version of The Ocean ..... I made it clear what I was doing and trying to replicate the Ocean wasn't it ..... it was just experimenting with sound.
If you're not gonna comment then don't comment instead of throwing out a veiled insult and then saying you're not gonna comment.
Click to expand...

LOl! Someone's having a bad day.

When have you ever known me to throw out a veiled insult? I don't beat around the bush. If I wanted to insult you, I would have no problem doing that, even to your face in person, if the opportunity presented itself. But there was no "veiled insult". That's for whiny little sissies like you. I simply said I didn't know what I supposed to be listening for. If I wasn't supposed to be listening for anything, then fine, but then I don't know what the point of you posting that was. Thanx for explaining that it was just an experiment.

You've got to be the most insecure person I've seen in a long time. Always taking shit negatively and getting all defensive. I thought someone who keeps reminding everyone that nobody has gigged as much as him would have grown a thicker skin after all those gigs...especially when nobody was insulting you in the first place.

You funny. :D
 
Last edited:
Lt. Bob said:
I'm always VERY complimentary to your stuff
Click to expand...
You don't have to be. If you think my stuff is shit, you can say so. I guarantee you I won't cry like you. That's just embarrassing.
you never fail to get snotty to me when you get the chance.
Click to expand...
Aw...poor baby.....Nah, that's not true. You're just a big, old baby that whines for no reason.

Fuck you ......
Click to expand...
Right back at ya. :)

I wasn't insulting you at all. You're pathetic. You might want to get checked. I think dementia is setting in.
 
Last edited:
Lt. Bob said:
I clearly said that it was done from scratch.
Click to expand...

Sorry...I didn't read through every post, every line...I just listened to the MP3.

I didn't mean it was done poorly...just a touch "soft", otherwise tight.
 
Well that escalated quickly :D

Greg, thanks a million for the info, I really appreciate it. No worries or overload, I'm just a newb to the world of old(ish) school Marshall amps, so I'll take any pointers or info that you have!
 
Tadpui said:
Well that escalated quickly :D

Greg, thanks a million for the info, I really appreciate it. No worries or overload, I'm just a newb to the world of old(ish) school Marshall amps, so I'll take any pointers or info that you have!
Click to expand...

Yeah wtf happened in here?

I don't know if you saw the edit, but I went back and looked at your board pics from your other thread. It looks to me like you're good to go for EL34s.
 
Cool clip Bob, thanks for posting it up for me....but, you're killin' me because I want one of those fuckin' talk boxes, & can't swing the $$$ right now......:).
 
I sat down to dick around with the JCM and the Jazzmaster the other day. I played 16 bars of a drum beat, 16 bars of bass, and looped it. Then I played around with a rhythm and lead guitar part. I do this a lot, it's how I entertain myself sometimes. I ended up with a painful 7 minutes of missed notes and improvised 80s shred wankery. It would be evil to post the entire thing, but here are a couple of excerpts just for the sake of hearing a couple of tones. I'm getting not a "fizzy" thing, but a "fuzzy" thing...kind of a lower frequency fizz. You can hear it on the rhythm guitar and the lead when I engage the CS3. I'm not sure how to dial that out yet. Gonna have to experiment with how far I can back off the master and pre without neutering the low end, I think.

The JCM800 2204S was on the low input. I've fiddled with it since then so I can't remember the exact settings. Most likely it was:
Presence: 2
Bass: 6
Mid: 7
Treble: 2
Master and Pre: 10
Audix i5, with some reverb added to the lead guitar in Reaper.
Moderate amounts of hairspray to hold my bangs up

The rhythm part was the Jazzmaster with the dark rhythm circuit engaged. The lead part was the Jazzmaster on the normal setting, bridge pickup, with an Ibanez TS9 that had the tone all the way down and drive way up. Listen and laugh at the cringe-worthy "oops" notes. Apologies in advance :)



And this wank-tastic excerpt is the same settings, adding the a Boss CS3 in my "end of the world" setting on the lead guitar. More wrong notes, again sorry...but I actually like the chaos of the feedback at 0:40, I want to use that in a song at some point.

 
Man, you do like those thick dark low input tones, yeah? I don't think it sounds bad. There is a little mush-fuzz in there but not enough to be "bad" IMO. That's gonna happen though when you dime the volumes on the low input. You're driving that preamp gain stage for everything it has. It can't not mush out. Try backing off the pre some, but leave the volume cranked.

The noisy feedbacking bit was pretty awesome.
 
Admittedly, I really do like thick and dark tones. Too bad they don't translate well into mixes. They tend to get swallowed. But I love the rhythm tone here at times, when its not too fuzzy or boomy. That's gonna be a tough balance to strike. That Jazzmaster rhythm circuit is dark by design. Sounds amazing through my Fender amp, but seems too dark for the Marshall.

Over the holiday weekend, I'm gonna fiddle with this tone and see what I can come up with that's a little brighter but not fizzy. Preamp volume will be top of the list.

Thanks man, I appreciate the advice as always.
 
The lead parts sounded fine to me, but the rhythm parts are a bit saturated/mushy for my taste. You should try rolling the pre back like Greg said and running a tubescreamer type pedal with the gain low and the level high. That would kill some of the mush without losing your sustain.
 
ocnor said:
The lead parts sounded fine to me, but the rhythm parts are a bit saturated/mushy for my taste. You should try rolling the pre back like Greg said and running a tubescreamer type pedal with the gain low and the level high. That would kill some of the mush without losing your sustain.
Click to expand...

Ooh, good idea! I've been using my TS9 as a filter more and more lately. It tames the ridiculous high end of my fuzz pedal, and I found while recording these clips that it takes a lot of the "twang" out of my Jazzmaster pickups when I need it. I hadn't thought of using that same idea to filter the rhythm parts, with the drive turned down. I'll try it tonight!

Also, I just saw that my new tubes and bias probe are due to be delivered tomorrow! I'm anxious to get them installed, use a little Deoxit on the pins, get it all biased, and see if that helps the crackly knobs.
 
I use my Tube Screamer as a boost only. No drive. Level anywhere from 2:00 to max. It tightens things up and gives a little mid hump boost, but doesn't add any crap grit with the drive all the way down.
 
Nice clips Tad, love the lead tones man, especially the feedback parts....to me, it's a magical, wonderful thing when you get your guitar/amp into that spot where you can get it to feedback on sustained notes/chords...Both my amps have "that" spot, but the Ceriatone is much easier to get there...

Like mentioned, the rhythm tones are just a little mushy/un-defined, but that would be an easy fix dude, either a clean boost, or dial the gain back just a little, but it doesn't sound bad to me as-is...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top