The New Tone Thread

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That is a good sounding pedal Bob, so much so I even listened to their chorus pedal demo...

You think that pedal is as close to your Ross as you've heard??? Just curious....
 
Tadpui said:
OK, here's a quick and dirty clip of the new 2204S dimed out. It's not nearly as painful as the DSL40C was on full blast, since it's not as searingly bright. I put an Audix i5 on one of the speakers, and felt it was missing something. So I put an Audix D6 on another speaker just to present the low end more like it feels in the room. This probably wouldn't work in a mix, but it does kind of represent the "chunk" a bit more. Forgive the drums, I just can't seem to come up with a riff without some sort of drum line any more.

Gibson LP Classic
Marshall JCM800 2204S
Presence: 1.5
Bass: 6
Mid: 8
Treble: 4
Master: all the fucking way
Preamp: ditto

Audix i5 at dust cap edge, pointed inward
Audix D6 at edge of cone, highs rolled off in Reaper (had some comb filtering going)

Click to expand...
sounds great!
 
minerman said:
You think that pedal is as close to your Ross as you've heard??? Just curious....
Click to expand...
I can't say I've made a HUGE effort to find one like the Ross but pretty much all of them I've heard had that metallic sucky sound .... now that it's come up I have started looking a bit a of the 4 or 5 I've checked out so far, this one sounds the closest.

And you can kinda tell that's the flanger they mean for it to be like with the color and the mention of thru -zero flanging.
 
Just for shits and grins I dug out my Ross flanger and my DOD flanger 670 and ran them in stereo.

The signal chain is: out of tune LP custom with dead strings > Carvin Legacy > Palmer PDI-03 > Ross flanger
> interface
............................................................................................................................ > DOD flanger
 
that's pretty flangy! :D

That's cool ..... I'm liking the huge sound it creates ......... nice! They both sound good to me .... the DOD side seems to dominate the sound on my speakers.
 
I fixed the Marshall 6101.

Got a wild hair and tore it down tonight .... there's 5 internal fuses in it besides the three on the rear panel. 8 fuses in all!
It has a BUNCH of ribbon cables and other connectors in there connecting all the boards.
Those things always start having connectivity problems.
I just unplugged everything and plugged it all back to clean the connections and it works. I have no idea which one it was .....
Took about 2 hours to disassemble it .... work on the guts and then reassemble it ......

But it won't last ..... those connectors will vibrate loose again ..... they're just not that tight.

I didn't take pics but I will when I go back in there which I'll do as soon as I figure out a way to clamp those connectors in place. And all the switches need cleaning and the pots too.
It has to be the biggest POS design Marshall ever came up with.

I'm not sure what to do with it.
I won't feel right about selling it 'cause I know it's crap.
I'd sell it to a collector but I couldn't let a gigging player buy it and think it's a gig worthy amp ...... it just isn't.

I think I'm gonna go in there and try to mod it with regard to the connectors.
I might even remove the connectors on some of them and simply solder the wires.

Then I'll just use it and if it breaks again I might just throw away the amp and use the cab for something.
 
Lt. Bob said:
I fixed the Marshall 6101.

Got a wild hair and tore it down tonight .... there's 5 internal fuses in it besides the three on the rear panel. 8 fuses in all!
It has a BUNCH of ribbon cables and other connectors in there connecting all the boards.
Those things always start having connectivity problems.
I just unplugged everything and plugged it all back to clean the connections and it works. I have no idea which one it was .....
Took about 2 hours to disassemble it .... work on the guts and then reassemble it ......

But it won't last ..... those connectors will vibrate loose again ..... they're just not that tight.

I didn't take pics but I will when I go back in there which I'll do as soon as I figure out a way to clamp those connectors in place. And all the switches need cleaning and the pots too.
It has to be the biggest POS design Marshall ever came up with.

I'm not sure what to do with it.
I won't feel right about selling it 'cause I know it's crap.
I'd sell it to a collector but I couldn't let a gigging player buy it and think it's a gig worthy amp ...... it just isn't.

I think I'm gonna go in there and try to mod it with regard to the connectors.
I might even remove the connectors on some of them and simply solder the wires.

Then I'll just use it and if it breaks again I might just throw away the amp and use the cab for something.
Click to expand...

Haha, I know what you mean about those cables. My JVM is like that too. It looks like a desktop computer with tubes inside of there. Those 6100s were pretty much Marshall's first foray into modern build techniques. I guess they didn't have it quite figured out yet. My JVM is solid though, and I suppose it has to be the way it is otherwise there would be ten billion miles of wire inside. Too many modes and channel switching. Thankfully I haven't had to fix anything on my JVM yet.

Anyway, I wanna hear your 6100 before it blows up. Lol. I've only recently got to spend some time with one at a GC way down almost in Galveston. I liked it. It sounded good. But it did seem flimsy with those cheap buttons and wiggly knobs.
 
Greg_L said:
Those 6100s were pretty much Marshall's first foray into modern build techniques. I guess they didn't have it quite figured out yet. .
Click to expand...
I think that's the whole thing right there.
There has to be a first one where they learn what to do differently so the next one will be better.
And I'll get some clips of it ..... it sounds pretty good while in it's functioning mode ....... it just has several other modes that are silent! :D
 
minerman
I'm still not sure what speakers are in this thing. I tried taking the back off, but that fucker is really on there. Soon I'll take Greg's suggestion and remove the jack plate and peer in there with a flashlight.

Greg
Thanks man, it's certainly fat! New amps take so much getting used to...what you hear and feel in the room is so different than what a mic hears smooshed right up against the grille.

antichef
Thanks! I think that there's definite potential there, although I haven't quite figured out a great way to mic the cabinet yet. I cheated on this one and used a kick mic along with the usual i5. Soon I'll try an SM57 on it and see how it comes out.

ocnor
Nice Barracuda you have there :) Between the wide stereo and both sides having competing flanging, I nearly got vertigo. Those do sound like good flange pedals though, none of that digital metallic sound that I hate. Sounds thick and lush.

I got to messing around this evening and put the Jazzmaster through the new 2204S. On the low input, it was basically a clean amp all the way up to both volumes being cranked. But you guys were right...that hi sensitivity input is nuts! The hot-ass pickups in my LP Classic are too much for that input, it gets really messy sounding. Tons of high-frequency clatter in this room (admittedly I still had both volumes cranked). But the lower output pickups on the Jazzmaster hit a better spot, after turning the master and pre down. Still though, these single coil pickups just sound pretty anemic through this amp and with this mic. There is a sweet spot on the open D string that hits that lo-mid compression, but the low E string ends up barely sounding out other than the mid/high frequencies. I think that if I'd used the Tube Screamer, it would have filtered out some of the clangy highs. I'll try that next time. I cranked the bass and turned the presence and treble all the way down and it was still pretty clangy. It's such a bright bridge pickup on that guitar, even with the tone rolled down.

Anyways, here's a quick jam with the JM and the JCM. Silly drums and bass included...

Fender '65 Jazzmaster, bridge pickup. Tone rolled back to 50%
Marshall JCM800 2204S
- presence: 0
- bass: 10
- mid: 8
- treble: 0
- master: 6
- pre: 6

 
ocnor said:
Just for shits and grins I dug out my Ross flanger and my DOD flanger 670 and ran them in stereo.

The signal chain is: out of tune LP custom with dead strings > Carvin Legacy > Palmer PDI-03 > Ross flanger
> interface
............................................................................................................................ > DOD flanger
> interface

View attachment 94338​
Click to expand...

Haha, pretty nice. Lots of good flanging there. Both sides sound okay to me.

Tadpui said:
Anyways, here's a quick jam with the JM and the JCM. Silly drums and bass included...

Fender '65 Jazzmaster, bridge pickup. Tone rolled back to 50%
Marshall JCM800 2204S
- presence: 0
- bass: 10
- mid: 8
- treble: 0
- master: 6
- pre: 6

Click to expand...

I like it. Pretty cool. Definitely a little bit single coil twangy, but not too bright.

One thing you could try with the LP and high input is to run the master up high and keep the gain low. Both volumes cranked will get mushy and weird with a hot humbucker. Keep the gain low with your mega-hot pickups if you're running the master vol way high.​
 
Yamaha FX500
Sample one is Broad Distortion - 1:infinity compression threshold at -10, heavy distortion with a mid scoop and separate L + R delays.
Sample five is Sweet Flange - comp thresh -10 & 1:infinity, big bump in mids & highs a room reverb & deep flange.
Sample eight is Horror House - heavy compression, masses of distortion, boost in low & mids. Reverb & Delay with a DEEP flange.
 
I've been experimenting more with the Kemper.

I got an opportunity to really test the Kemper today at a proper studio with some good microphones and obscene speakers.
Picture: tFNl4S0.webp lots of Marshalls!
They really highlighted the difference between the amps and the profile. The Kemper tended to add more low end and roll off high end as well as gently compress the sound. At the same time, the Kemper de-reverbs every signal you put into it. We first tried it through a room mic and it cut the reverb tail flat and made the sound more present.
We then ran it through a chain with a reverb in it set to over 5s of decay and the profile still came out dry.
It seemed to enhance high gain tones in a rather pleasent manner but didn't keep it quite together on the crunch and clean.
 
Greg_L said:
I like it. Pretty cool. Definitely a little bit single coil twangy, but not too bright.

One thing you could try with the LP and high input is to run the master up high and keep the gain low. Both volumes cranked will get mushy and weird with a hot humbucker. Keep the gain low with your mega-hot pickups if you're running the master vol way high.
Click to expand...

I think that I'll run downstairs and give that a try very soon. Thanks! It was definitely a mess. Also, I think that I'm going to go back and get the matching 4x10 B cabinet. It's killing me to have split up a 30 year old set, and apparently those green tolex B cabs are hard to find. I did some Googling and found a few people from the last few years lamenting that they couldn't find one to compliment their "S" set. Even if it's just for decoration, whomever claims it from my estate sale after I die will be pleased :)

rayc said:
Yamaha FX500
Sample one is Broad Distortion - 1:infinity compression threshold at -10, heavy distortion with a mid scoop and separate L + R delays.
Sample five is Sweet Flange - comp thresh -10 & 1:infinity, big bump in mids & highs a room reverb & deep flange.
Sample eight is Horror House - heavy compression, masses of distortion, boost in low & mids. Reverb & Delay with a DEEP flange.
Click to expand...

That deep flange would be a cool effect to add to a spacey interlude. There's no broad application for such a sound, but it could be just the thing for that Pink Floyd inspired concept album that we're all working on :D

Schwarzenyaeger said:
I've been experimenting more with the Kemper.

I got an opportunity to really test the Kemper today at a proper studio with some good microphones and obscene speakers.
Picture: lots of Marshalls!
They really highlighted the difference between the amps and the profile. The Kemper tended to add more low end and roll off high end as well as gently compress the sound. At the same time, the Kemper de-reverbs every signal you put into it. We first tried it through a room mic and it cut the reverb tail flat and made the sound more present.
We then ran it through a chain with a reverb in it set to over 5s of decay and the profile still came out dry.
It seemed to enhance high gain tones in a rather pleasent manner but didn't keep it quite together on the crunch and clean.
Click to expand...

Damn dude, that's a total gear boner! What a freakin' setup. That corner trap looks really familiar. Is that a GIK Tri-Trap?
 
Alritey ..... here's the Marshall 6101 combo.
Mine came with the custom EV 12" that they used the first year. But currently I have a Mesa Black Shadow which is a Celestion of some sort.

In my usual way I ran and did this during commercials while wifey and I were watching Face Off and a few shows on the DVR so it's quick and nasty.
I have one clip with it in triode mode and one in pentode mode .... I prefer triode and actually cut the higher gain section short in the pentode clip but after listening to the tape perhaps I might reconsider that.

Anyways .... both clips have all three channels on them .... no footswitch ... I just reached over and pressed a button.

So each one starts with the clean channel .... then goes to crunch and then to a solo voice with higher gain.
Put my Tascam DR-05 on a chair about 3 feet in front of the amp and used the built-in mics.

PENT-ALL is pentode mode, obviously. It goes to channel 2 at about a minute and channel 3 briefly at 1:26.
CLEANCRUNCHDIRTY is the triode setting ..... starts in channel 1 .... goes to channel 2 around :44 and channel 3 at 1:28.

Has quite a nice clean sound ..... very country to my surprise .... or surfy if I dialed it in some and added 'verb.

I may gig it next week just for the hell of it.
 

Attachments

Bob
pentode clean sounds pretty damn good. Is that the Franken-Tele going through that? It's bright and twangy without being obnoxiously bright. I wanted more time with the crunch setting here.

Triode mode sounds just as good on the clean. The crunch is pretty good, I think it'd love a humbucker pushing it.

I think that my Mesa Lone Star Special has that same Black Shadow speaker in it. My LSS is such a dark-voiced amp, I can't get a read on how the Black Shadow really sounds. It's great for filtering out that harsh high end, but it seems to do too much of that on my amp. It can take a beating though!
 
yeah ..... in the room it seemed to get too bright but on the recording it just has a nice bite to it.

I'll have to fool around with it .... about the time I get it sounding good it always breaks down! :D
LOL Not exaggerating here .... I've never gotten more than a month out of it.

I'll give it one more try though .... it does sound pretty good..

ummmm .... no, it's not the tele .... It's my Stinnett and the p'ups are Duncan p-rails ..... I mostly keep the neck as a P90 and the bridge as a 'bucker and that's where I had them for this .
Most of it is in the middle position with both p'ups going ...... maybe roll off the neck just a little bit.

I like the speaker quite a bit .... back when in BR I went thru a spell of bringing heads and running them thru the same speaker which was in my Mesa Blue Angel.
I thought everything sounded great thru that speaker.
And that's the one that's in the Marshall ...... and I have the speaker from the Mark V in the Blue Angel and I have a Weber Michigan alnico in the Mark V.
 
Ah, P90 is what I was hearing. I've never owned a guitar with P90s, it's hard for me to differentiate between those and single coils sometimes. And sometimes I can't tell the difference between P90s and humbuckers...they're that middle ground that sounds like both, depending on the context. That's a bright bridge humbucker! Of course this is coming from a guy that has the obnoxiously hot and dark T500 pickup as a bridge humbucker.

But Bob...listen to the voice of reason: don't gig with that goddamn amp. You've regaled us with stories about how it has been consistent at one and only one thing: failure. Don't do it :D

Well, maybe if you just fill it with a brick of epoxy to keep it from rattling itself to death yet once again :)

It sounds nice though. Does it get nastier or fatter if you crank up the master?
 
Lt. Bob said:
PENT-ALL is pentode mode, obviously. It goes to channel 2 at about a minute and channel 3 briefly at 1:26.
CLEANCRUNCHDIRTY is the triode setting ..... starts in channel 1 .... goes to channel 2 around :44 and channel 3 at 1:28.
Click to expand...


I liked the pentode mode the best. It was a bit less mushy than the triode mode.
 
Schwarzenyaeger said:
I've been experimenting more with the Kemper.

I got an opportunity to really test the Kemper today at a proper studio with some good microphones and obscene speakers.
Picture: View attachment 94357 lots of Marshalls!
They really highlighted the difference between the amps and the profile. The Kemper tended to add more low end and roll off high end as well as gently compress the sound. At the same time, the Kemper de-reverbs every signal you put into it. We first tried it through a room mic and it cut the reverb tail flat and made the sound more present.
We then ran it through a chain with a reverb in it set to over 5s of decay and the profile still came out dry.
It seemed to enhance high gain tones in a rather pleasent manner but didn't keep it quite together on the crunch and clean.
Click to expand...

Is it weird that I can name those Marshall heads just by the knob layout?

JCM 900 MkIII
JCM 800
JCM 800 2205/2210

Those are pretty easy.
 
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