The New Tone Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Telegram Sam
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Thanks Bob....I really like the Chupacabra dude, to me, it's a beast of an amp, very versatile, but takes some getting used to...I have to play around with it in different modes to get it where I want it, unlike the DSL, which is pretty straight-forward (which I really like too...hell, I like all my gear....lol)..

I thought the movie "Dracula Untold" was pretty good...Of course, this story has been told over, & over, & over, but, this one was just a little different...To me, it rates close (but not quite) to "Bram Stoker's Dracula" from the 90's, which I think is a classic...The new woman even liked the new one, which surprised me...

Anyway, back to the e-drums!!!! Lol...
 
Ok, last clip of the night as it's getting late, & I'm gonna go eat a bite, & watch "Dracula Untold" on dvd....Been wanting to see that movie since I came out, hope it's worth a fuck...hahaha

LP > Chupa > Greenback > '57/e609 (same mic position as all before, this one seems to work, so I'm gonna leave it alone...lol)


Resonance: 0
Presence: 4
Bass: 4
Mid: 7
Treble: 7
Master: 9
Gain 2: 8-9
Gain 1: 3
Era: Modern
Bright 2: R
Bright 1: C
Focus: Off

Hair Metal Tone

Hair Metal Tone with 'verb

I used the "Modern" era for these clips, & had to turn the pre-amp gain on my interface up quite a bit...Like I've mentioned before, there's quite a volume difference between the different modes, for me, it's not an issue, but for someone playing live, it could be a big one...

Lemme know what you guys think, be back in a few hours after I stuff my face & watch the movie....

Lol. Those sound real good dude, but they need more grind for "hair metal". Too much mids I think. Lol. Not that there's anything wrong with mids. Mids are the best. That's a really good smooth gain sound. It doesn't have the brittle crunch though that I expect to hear in "hair metal". I think calling it "hair metal" threw me off. :laughings:

During my little metal experiment I was listening to some classic, um, metal I guess. Like really listened to the guitars. Man, a lot of those guys sound like shit, some sounded way better than I expected. George Lynch's sound was pretty cool, but, dare I say, Randy Rhoads sounded like dogshit most of the time. Just tone, not playing ability. And all of the songs are garbage, but just tones, I thought some of it was really good, some of it surprisingly not good. Dimebag probably had the worst tone ever recorded.
 
Metallica usually sound quite good whether you like them or not. I remember Sepulture had a pretty good sound too, not heard them in years though.
 
Like most everyone else in the world, I only like the first 4 Metallica albums. The songs are strong, the energy is high, the hunger and drive is real. I wouldn't say they sound good though. The production on those albums is questionable. I mean, Cliff Burton was supposed to be this bad ass legend of metal bass, but you can barely hear him on those first three albums.
 
Lol. Those sound real good dude, but they need more grind for "hair metal". Too much mids I think. Lol. Not that there's anything wrong with mids. Mids are the best. That's a really good smooth gain sound. It doesn't have the brittle crunch though that I expect to hear in "hair metal". I think calling it "hair metal" threw me off. :laughings:
Thanks dude, I guess I should've made the titles "My Version of Hair Metal".....lol...Smooth is exactly what I was going for too, pretty much nailed what I was after IMO....I've learned something else about the 2-mic thing too...In either of these clips, either single mic by itself sounded like utter shit to me, but blended, it sounds huge, I think I've found "my" combo & position I've been after since I started the 2-mic thing...Close mics anyway, not sure if I should even try a room mic here, the room sound isn't much to be honest, so I'd probably be better off using a room reverb in the daw....Thanks again dude....

During my little metal experiment I was listening to some classic, um, metal I guess. Like really listened to the guitars. Man, a lot of those guys sound like shit, some sounded way better than I expected. George Lynch's sound was pretty cool, but, dare I say, Randy Rhoads sounded like dogshit most of the time. Just tone, not playing ability. And all of the songs are garbage, but just tones, I thought some of it was really good, some of it surprisingly not good. Dimebag probably had the worst tone ever recorded.
Yeah Greg, I agree a lot of the guitar sounds in that genre sound like shit....Randy Rhoads is definitely one of 'em...I think his sucked because of the production of the 2 albums he was on myself...The whole mix/whole band just doesn't sound good to me....His playing is another story though, some of the shit he did was unreal...

Dokken/Lynch did have good tone IMO too...Scorpions "Love At First Sting"'s guitar sound is good (to me...)...Mark Kendall's (Great White) tone on "Once Bitten" & "Twice Shy" is great (again to me...)...Ratt's "Out Of The Cellar"...Mick Mars' tone started out really raw & aggresive, then became more polished as time went on, to me, he's got pretty good tone still yet...Def Leppard's "Pyromania" has some great tones on it...I could go on, but it's really pointless....And about 90% of the guys listed used...you ready for it??? Boosted/modded Marshall JCM800's or Super Leads....:).

Another player I really like, & I think has really good tones (for the most part, not all his sounds are great) is Jerry Cantrell...AIC wasn't a hair metal band (well, they were in the beginning, before they made it), but gets a mention from me...

Dimebag could play like hell, but his tone did suck, just awful sounding to me....About 90% of the hair metal bands' guitarists could really play, but like you said, their guitar sounds just plain sucked...I still like some of it anyway though...lol...

On the Metallica thing, I've never really liked 'em...Sure, the first few albums were raw, hungry & everything a metal band should be, but after the "Black" album hit the mainstream, it was played to fuckin' death everywhere, & I got so sick of hearing that shit...We even played "Enter Sandman" in a country/rock band I was in, that right there should tell you how bad it was.....:laughings:.

Got some running to do today, I think I'm gonna swing by Lowe's & pick up some materials to make as many Roxul 2' x 4' panels as I can, I've got that shit just lying around, & need to put it to use. I originally bought it for the ISO cab, but I did manage to save pretty much all of the bundle (other than a couple pieces I cut up to fill that big bastard in with) left over, & half-ass treat this room...I know I don't have enough to make basstraps, but what I'll be able to make should help a little with the flutter-echo I've been talking about...We'll see how it goes I suppose...

Be back in a few hours guys...

Post some toans!!!!!
 
Thanks dude, I guess I should've made the titles "My Version of Hair Metal".....lol...Smooth is exactly what I was going for too, pretty much nailed what I was after IMO....I've learned something else about the 2-mic thing too...In either of these clips, either single mic by itself sounded like utter shit to me, but blended, it sounds huge, I think I've found "my" combo & position I've been after since I started the 2-mic thing...Close mics anyway, not sure if I should even try a room mic here, the room sound isn't much to be honest, so I'd probably be better off using a room reverb in the daw....Thanks again dude....
Agreed on the mics. Positioning a single mic is a different game from positioning for two mics. I like the two mic method and have been using it for a while now. I wouldn't use either two-mic position on their own though. One's too bright, one's too dark. But together they sound great. It's like a reese's peanut butter cup. :D

I did a bunch of clips yesterday with a room mic in various spots. They all sucked. Not even worth posting. My room is very dry and too small for an effective use of room mics. I have used them out in my front entryway though. It's a big open space that goes all the way upstairs. I recorded this one guy a long time ago where we laid his cab on the ground pointing up into the void and I put a mic upstairs. It was pretty wild. I might give that a try with my own stuff. It's a lot of setup though that I don't ever feel like messing with. I'm more than happy with just close miking.


And about 90% of the guys listed used...you ready for it??? Boosted/modded Marshall JCM800's or Super Leads....:).
I know, that was THE setup back then. Some of those dudes ran like 2 or 3 boosts in front. Way too much for me, but many of them made it sound pretty good. I agree that a lot of the things I think sound bad are probably production. A lot of those hair metal albums don't really sound very good. I've heard some Ozzy/Randy live stuff that sounded pretty good. But back then no one cared, and now it's a moment in time.
 
Yeah dude, the 2-mic thing is the shizzle, but it takes a little more time to get 'em placed right...I've pretty much got the single mic thing down, pretty much...I do like the '57 on it's own better than the e609 though, the 609 is too "sizzly" sounding by itself...Maybe I need to try a darker placement with it...But, I can take my '57 & have it pretty much there effortlessly...

I tried all kinds of shit to mark the cap spots on my grill cloth, tape, all kinds of shit....I finally got a red sharpie, & made a big dot where the cap of each speaker is...Makes it much easier & faster compared to getting the flashlight out, & all that...You really can't see the dots on the bottom speakers' spots unless you really look, but the top dots are pretty visible on the angled part of the grill cloth...I'm not planning on selling this cab anyway, so fuck it.....It's mine....lol...

I'll just stick to a room reverb vst dude, my room is so small, it's pointless to even try that shit...Even after I knock out this wall, & double up my space, it'll still probably be pointless...

I really do think a lot of the bands back then, their album production hurt their sound, as I've seen lots of them live, & their guitar tones sounded pretty good live compared to the albums...Most of 'em anyway...lol...


Gotta run be back in a few hours...
 
I do like jerry Cantrell. He plays a g&l through a bognor doesn't he?

The bloke from Tool has a really nice tone too. He's not going mental, just sounds good.

Tom Morello has a fucking great tone too.
 
Jerry Cantrell has his own G&L signature guitar, & Friedman released a signature amp for him last year....The guitar is basically a strat with a humbucker, & the amp is...you ready????

Basically a modded Marshall....that costs almost 4 grand for the head alone...

I do like his tones & playing for the most part, especially his older stuff....

On Tool & Morello.....not so much for me...both bands have a song or two that are ok to me, but the guitar tones I don't really care for myself....

Good news today on a couple different things...first I had a "promise" about a job....the guy is straight up, my brother works there, should be back in the black before too long, a month tops (hopefully anyway)...we'll see I guess...

Other good thing is I have more Roxul than I thought (had it in storage), so I should be able to treat my room fairly well for now, I don't have enough for bass traps, but I need to wait on those until I merge the 2 rooms together, then I'll do even more....Should be back on my feet finacially by then, so I'm gonna do the best with the treatment as I can....

I was originally going to make 2' x 4' panels, but instead, I'm gonna make 2' x 2' panels...Having the smaller panels will actually help me treat most of the room, with what I have for now....The only $$$ I'm gonna be out on this round of treatment is the lumber & the cloth to cover it....Shouldn't cost much really since I already have the Roxul....

Post some toans guys!!!!
 
Mm mm, bass traps. Maybe I could.build some in the corner of the living room and tell the Mrs they are large coffee stands or lamp stands
 
Would love to post a few tones but my internet service provider are being complete fucktards at the moment. I had organised my house move with them three months in advance so that we would have a connection whenwe moved in. No connection. They said it would be ten days time. I even got a text off them to tell me it was sorted... It isn't. Very very frustrating so far I have spent a good portion of my Saturday morning on hold with the useless twats.

Feel better after that rant.
 
Resonance: 0
Presence: 4
Bass: 4
Mid: 7
Treble: 7
Master: 9
Gain 2: 8-9
Gain 1: 3
Era: Modern
Bright 2: R
Bright 1: C
Focus: Off

Hair Metal Tone

Hair Metal Tone with 'verb
nice, and not too much reverb. Maybe there should be too much reverb :) -- backing off the mids (to like, I'm guessing, 3) wouldn't make it sound better, but would make sound more authentic...

I know you've described your system before, but I'm intimidated at the thought of going back through this thread. The greenback in your chain - is that in a 4x12 or something else?



I guess I sort of like Morello's tone - more because I think of it as being cleaner on the amp and beating the sH&## out of a guitar with a fairly hot pickup, which is pretty much what I have been doing for the last couple of years. Tool and Alice in Chains - the tone itself is kind of boring to me - I'm not necessarily knocking the players or the bands, I haven't listened to them much
 
Antichef: Thanks dude, I've learned that the mids make the guitars cut through in a mix...Did I have 'em up too high??? Probably to sound more like the old 80's stuff, but I was just screwing around, & hit record when I thought it sounded close enough...lol...

Here's a pic of my 2 "big" amps with my cab:


I call it my "bastard" cab, because it's got 4 different speakers in it..:laughings:.It doesn't sound terrible in the room (it actually sounds pretty good), but it doesn't sound like a cab with matched speakers in it...I did this so I'd be able to have different tones from the same cab, without too much trouble (I have to give the Gerg credit for this idea)...I was originally gonna use these different speakers in my ISO cab, but the recorded tones with it just plain suck (I bought a Randall ISO cab a few months ago, & foolishly thought it would sound like the one I built....wrong...the huge, heavy one I built killed this thing as far as recorded tones (I dis-assembled the old one months ago, keeping the Roxul, 1/4" jacks, everything except the wood)....I still use it for late-night recording, mostly for tracking di's for re-amping later)...

For mics, I use a '57 & Sennheiser e609...I do have 3 condenser mics, but they just don't sound as good as the dynamic mics, & can't handle the high SPL's either...

I still have the Egnater Tweaker 15w head, & the little 1w Marshall DSL head too....I rarely even turn the Egnater on anymore, but I do use the DSL-1H with the Randall ISO cab late at night, again, for tracking di's...The 1w Marshall & Randall ISO are basically an $1100 ampsim (the way I use 'em most of the time)....:laughings:.

I did hook the DSL-1H to the 4x12 yesterday, & it does sound pretty good, it just doesn't have the meat/chunk/bottom or push enough air to get "that" sound that the bigger amps do...
 
awesome - you're saving me a bunch of heartache and money with your iso story

I'm not knockin' mids - even in the 80's I pretty much got it, and I was playing with more mids that was fashionable at that time. It's just that I saw 'hair metal' :)
 
awesome - you're saving me a bunch of heartache and money with your iso story

Yeah dude, as far as it killing the noise, the Randall does a decent job of that, but the recorded tone is just boxy, the highs are about the same as a regular cab, but the low end just isn't right at all...I'm guessing it's where it's a small cab (1x12) & enclosed, the lows really have nowhere to go, they just bounce around inside the cab itself...

You can build your own for about half the cost of a Randall ISO, but the one I built weighed about 200lbs (if not more, it took me & my big brother both straining our nuts off to lift it in/out of his truck...we're not little weak guys either, especially my brother, he's a fucking brute btw), was very big (it was 36" long, by 29" wide, & about 36" deep/top to bottom...I had a smaller box inside the outer one, with 3" of Roxul Safe-N-Sound between the boxes, & stuffed a bunch of smaller Roxul panels inside the inner box), & took up a lot of space...But, while it was big, heavy, & looked like shit, it did kill the commercially made Randall ISO's recorded tones hands down...

That said, I've been messing with the Randall ISO, & Marshall DSL-1H late at night...The tones I've been getting aren't terrible, but they're just not as good as my 4x12 at all...Again, the high end is ok, it's the low-end/chunk that's off...

I've wondered if I should have gotten the Jet City ISO cab, but really, I think all of 'em are about the same in that price range...The Rivera Silent Sister is supposed to be a lot better, but it's way more expensive at about $1000....

Got the DSL100's tubes warming up, gonna record a little, & I'll post some tones in a little while...
 
Ok, here's a shit-load of clips I did with the DSL today...After listening back, the mic placement should've been better, but, fuck it, I just wanted to show you guys what the DSL has to offer with all the different modes, & using a couple od pedals...

Signal chain:
LP > SD-1 (not on all of 'em) > Bogner Red (same) > DSL100 > G12-65 re-issue > '57/e609 (I did add some 'verb on one clip)

No eq or anything in the daw, except for the "SD-1 > OD1" clip...all the amp settings are exactly the same except for the Bogner clip, I lowered the gain a little...

LP > SD-1 (bypassed) > Bogner Red (bypassed) > DSL100 > G12-65 > '57/e609

DSL100:
100w mode
Green Clean
Resonance: 2
Presence: 7
Bass: 5
Mid: 3
Treble: 1
Volume: 3
Gain: 10

Green Clean


LP > SD-1 (bypassed) > Bogner Red (bypassed) > DSL100 > G12-65 > '57/e609

DSL100:
100w mode
Green Crunch
Resonance: 2
Presence: 7
Bass: 5
Mid: 3
Treble: 1
Volume: 3
Gain: 10

Green Crunch


LP > SD-1 (bypassed) > Bogner Red (bypassed) > DSL100 > G12-65 > '57/e609

DSL100:
100w mode
OD1
Resonance: 2
Presence: 7
Bass: 5
Mid: 3
Treble: 1
Volume: 3
Gain: 5

OD1


LP > SD-1 (bypassed) > Bogner Red (bypassed) > DSL100 > G12-65 > '57/e609

DSL100:
100w mode
OD2
Resonance: 2
Presence: 7
Bass: 5
Mid: 3
Treble: 1
Volume: 3
Gain: 5

OD2


LP > SD-1 (bypassed) > Bogner Red > DSL100 > G12-65 > '57/e609

Bogner Red:
Volume: 8
Treble: 6-7
Mid: 5
Bass: 2
Gain: 9
Variac: On
Mode: Full
Pre-Eq: Neutral
Structure: 100

DSL100:
100w mode
Green Clean
Resonance: 2
Presence: 7
Bass: 5
Mid: 3
Treble: 1
Volume: 3
Gain: 8

Bogner Red


LP > SD-1 > Bogner Red (bypassed) > DSL100 > G12-65 > '57/e609 > reverb in daw

SD-1:
Volume: 10
Tone: 4
Gain: 1-2

DSL100:
100w mode
OD1
Resonance: 2
Presence: 7
Bass: 5
Mid: 3
Treble: 1
Volume: 3
Gain: 5

SD-1 > OD1
 
Wow, lotta clips. First thing that stands out to me is they're dark. Each one is pretty murky in the low end. Very tubby. The clean and crunch clips are really boomy to me. The gain'd up clips seem to handle it better, but they're still pretty boomy. I like SD1>OD1 the best. Tighten up the low end and that sounds like some hairy glam tone. :D
 
A couple of samples for your review. All done on a Marshall DSL40C with a Les Paul Traditional bridge pickup, tone-10 volume-10. Mic - SM57 just outside the dustcap, pointed straight at the grill, 1/2 inch away.

Sample #1 Settings

Channel - Crunch/Green

Gain - 5
Vol - 7-8
Treb - 5
Mid - 5
Bass - 8
Presence - 5
Resonance - 0

Crunch #1

Sample #2 Settings

Channel - Crunch/Green

Gain - 6
Vol - 7-8
Treb - 4
Mid - 4
Bass - 8
Presence - 4
Resonance - 0

Crunch #2

Sample #3 Settings

Channel - Lead 1

Gain - 2
Vol - 7
Treb - 3
Mid - 4
Bass - 10
Presence - 3
Resonance - 2

Lead #1
 
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