The New Tone Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Telegram Sam
  • Start date Start date
One way that all of the low watt Plexi clones differ (besides the obvious of not moving enough air) from the actual tone of the real thing is in dynamic response. EL84 based amps don't respond well to guitar volume roll offs. Many of them sound great when cranked, but when you back off of the guitar volume they get muddy, while a Plexi will clean up or do a slight break up.
There are a few modders that do a nice job on the Plexis, and are able to deliver the goods a lower volumes, but those are still not bedroom volumes. This one has a few tricks up its sleeve. Will do everything from AC/DC, Hendrix, Beck, to the most dimed out gain metal you can think of. It sounds great with v30's, but really shines with an X'd cab with v30's and GT75's
 

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Ok, did a little tube rolling, I thought I had my OS tubes in the 'lil Marshall, turns out, I was running the stock tubes all this time....Who would've thunkit....Just goes to show, the stock tubes that came in the amp aren't bad at all, & honestly, a tube swap doesn't make a world of difference really with this little amp.....Seems the Tung-Sol tubes in V3 & V5 (power section of the amp) smooth the highs out a little, seems like a good thing with the LP, although I honestly didn't like 'em with the Ibanez, but, the LP is waay brighter than the Ibanez too, & plus, I was looking for a completely different tone with the Ibby back then....

V1: Baldwin
V2: Mullard
V3: Tung-Sol
V4: RCA
V5: Tung-Sol

LP > DSL > V30 > '57 & C1

DSL:
1w mode
Bass: 10
Mid: 8
Treble: 7
Deep: On
Tone Shift: Off
Red Gain: 5
Red Vol: 10
Green Gain: 10
Green Vol: 10

 
And, some more of my nonsense wankering, different tubes & settings this time, pretty much the same tone though, just screwing around before I head off to work....

V1: Mullard
V2: Baldwin
V3: Tung-Sol
V4: Shuguang 5751
V5: Tung-Sol

LP > DSL > V30 > '57 & C1

DSL:
1w mode
Bass: 10
Mid: 4
Treble: 3
Deep: On
Tone Shift: Off
Red Gain: 3
Red Vol: 10

 
Hmmm, they both sound pretty good, but the mids seem to have suffered and the top end is a little fizzy compared to your previous clips.

When you get a chance, try this little experiment....set up the amp with the stock tubes and do a clip. Then swap tubes but don't change anything else. Same settings, speaker, mic, placement, etc. Let's hear what just the tubes do.
 
Ok, here's a quick tube test with the 'lil DSL-1 H....All amp settings are exactly the same, along with the same speaker & exact same mic placement (the 'lil boom arm I put in the ISO cab works great, won't move like the gooseneck would do on occasion)....

FWIW, I think I had the amp dialed in a little differently in today's clips as I'd normally been doing, I had the treble up pretty high on one of those clips....

Couldn't use the 1w mode tonight, as it'd probably wake the old lady up, even with the ISO cab (the low end rumble is actually pretty loud at 2:30 am, especially hitting the sweet spot on the volume, which is about 7-8, I could hear it all the way in the kitchen while re-amping one of these tracks, while I was grabbing a 'Dew...LOL...)...But, I recorded these tracks with a di, so I can re-amp 'em tomorrow in 1w mode (I actually re-amped these tonight, except the first track, recorded the di/amp'd track at the same time, then re-amped the other 2...) if I need to, & do some more tube rolling, as I've got a few more tubes I can try out, and/or swap around (IE: put the Mullard in V2, with the RCA in V1 for example...)...

And, I specifically recorded these with 1 mic, instead of blending the 2, & again, everything's the exactly same, except the tubes, even the exact same performance....but, as usual, I'm just fucking around.....:D.

LP > interface > re-amp box > DSL-1 > V30 > '57

DSL-1 H:
.01w mode
Bass: 10
Mid: 4
Treble: 4
Gain: 4
Volume: 8
Deep: On
Tone Shift: Off

Start - 1:00 : Stock Marshall tubes
1:01 - 1:58: Stock pre-amp tubes, Tung-Sol power tubes
2:00 - end: V1: Mullard, V2: Baldwin, V3: Tung-Sol, V4: RCA, V5: Tung-Sol



To be honest, I can't hear much of a difference in these 3 clips myself, maybe I'm just tired from work tonight, there might be a little difference in the mids, but again, not much....I don't think I've got great ears like the Gerg does...either that, or I don't know what the fuck I should be listening for...LOL....Lemme know what you guys think...
 
Ok, here's a quick tube test with the 'lil DSL-1 H....All amp settings are exactly the same, along with the same speaker & exact same mic placement (the 'lil boom arm I put in the ISO cab works great, won't move like the gooseneck would do on occasion)....

FWIW, I think I had the amp dialed in a little differently in today's clips as I'd normally been doing, I had the treble up pretty high on one of those clips....

Couldn't use the 1w mode tonight, as it'd probably wake the old lady up, even with the ISO cab (the low end rumble is actually pretty loud at 2:30 am, especially hitting the sweet spot on the volume, which is about 7-8, I could hear it all the way in the kitchen while re-amping one of these tracks, while I was grabbing a 'Dew...LOL...)...But, I recorded these tracks with a di, so I can re-amp 'em tomorrow in 1w mode (I actually re-amped these tonight, except the first track, recorded the di/amp'd track at the same time, then re-amped the other 2...) if I need to, & do some more tube rolling, as I've got a few more tubes I can try out, and/or swap around (IE: put the Mullard in V2, with the RCA in V1 for example...)...

And, I specifically recorded these with 1 mic, instead of blending the 2, & again, everything's the exactly same, except the tubes, even the exact same performance....but, as usual, I'm just fucking around.....:D.

LP > interface > re-amp box > DSL-1 > V30 > '57

DSL-1 H:
.01w mode
Bass: 10
Mid: 4
Treble: 4
Gain: 4
Volume: 8
Deep: On
Tone Shift: Off

Start - 1:00 : Stock Marshall tubes
1:01 - 1:58: Stock pre-amp tubes, Tung-Sol power tubes
2:00 - end: V1: Mullard, V2: Baldwin, V3: Tung-Sol, V4: RCA, V5: Tung-Sol



To be honest, I can't hear much of a difference in these 3 clips myself, maybe I'm just tired from work tonight, there might be a little difference in the mids, but again, not much....I don't think I've got great ears like the Gerg does...either that, or I don't know what the fuck I should be listening for...LOL....Lemme know what you guys think...
tube rolling is way exaggerated by people as far as how much difference it makes.
I've done it including with holy grail NOS tubes that cost a lot.
Waste of money and time IMO.
There are differences but they're small and about equivalent to making minor EQ changes on the amp.
 
Ok, here's a quick tube test with the 'lil DSL-1 H....All amp settings are exactly the same, along with the same speaker & exact same mic placement (the 'lil boom arm I put in the ISO cab works great, won't move like the gooseneck would do on occasion)....

FWIW, I think I had the amp dialed in a little differently in today's clips as I'd normally been doing, I had the treble up pretty high on one of those clips....

Couldn't use the 1w mode tonight, as it'd probably wake the old lady up, even with the ISO cab (the low end rumble is actually pretty loud at 2:30 am, especially hitting the sweet spot on the volume, which is about 7-8, I could hear it all the way in the kitchen while re-amping one of these tracks, while I was grabbing a 'Dew...LOL...)...But, I recorded these tracks with a di, so I can re-amp 'em tomorrow in 1w mode (I actually re-amped these tonight, except the first track, recorded the di/amp'd track at the same time, then re-amped the other 2...) if I need to, & do some more tube rolling, as I've got a few more tubes I can try out, and/or swap around (IE: put the Mullard in V2, with the RCA in V1 for example...)...

And, I specifically recorded these with 1 mic, instead of blending the 2, & again, everything's the exactly same, except the tubes, even the exact same performance....but, as usual, I'm just fucking around.....:D.

LP > interface > re-amp box > DSL-1 > V30 > '57

DSL-1 H:
.01w mode
Bass: 10
Mid: 4
Treble: 4
Gain: 4
Volume: 8
Deep: On
Tone Shift: Off

Start - 1:00 : Stock Marshall tubes
1:01 - 1:58: Stock pre-amp tubes, Tung-Sol power tubes
2:00 - end: V1: Mullard, V2: Baldwin, V3: Tung-Sol, V4: RCA, V5: Tung-Sol



To be honest, I can't hear much of a difference in these 3 clips myself, maybe I'm just tired from work tonight, there might be a little difference in the mids, but again, not much....I don't think I've got great ears like the Gerg does...either that, or I don't know what the fuck I should be listening for...LOL....Lemme know what you guys think...

I hear the differences, but like Boob says there's not enough there to worry about. I've never been one to worry too much about tubes. I do prefer types of tubes over others, like I like EL34s over 6L6s or 5881s, but as far as one brand over another, I couldn't care less. The difference between a JJ and Tung-Sol 12ax7 isn't enough for me to care about. I can make up for that a million different ways.

Having said all that....I like the middle section best. All stock was a little brittle. The full spread custom fancy cork-sniffing NOS setup was a little murky. The stock pre with Tung-Sol power tubes sounded best to me. It had bite and clarity with just enough edge taken off.
 
I hear the differences, but like Boob says there's not enough there to worry about. I've never been one to worry too much about tubes. I do prefer types of tubes over others, like I like EL34s over 6L6s or 5881s, but as far as one brand over another, I couldn't care less. The difference between a JJ and Tung-Sol 12ax7 isn't enough for me to care about. I can make up for that a million different ways.

Having said all that....I like the middle section best. All stock was a little brittle. The full spread custom fancy cork-sniffing NOS setup was a little murky. The stock pre with Tung-Sol power tubes sounded best to me. It had bite and clarity with just enough edge taken off.

Cool guys, thanks for the listen(s), & replies.....I know the differences weren't really anything to get worked up about, but I was pretty sure the Tung-Sol tubes would smooth the high end out just enough....FWIW, when I started getting those "good" tones a couple/few weeks ago, I did have an RCA Clear Top in V5 (which is the power tube in my 'lil amp), so, pretty much, gonna run the stock 12AX7's, & use the OS 12AU7's for V3 & V5....Thanks again guys!!!

I think I've finally found what's gonna work for my 'lil setup:

Les Paul (love this guitar man, just love it..)
DSL-1 H (with the OS power tubes)
T-75 speaker (makes a huge difference in my 'lil amp IMHO, so much difference that it's probably gonna stay in the ISO cab)....
'57 & C1 mics ('57 in front for the biggest part of the tone, & the C1 in the back of the speaker, phase flipped, to add some more "meat" to it....)...

Thanks again guys, FWIW, I've been working on those songs some more (still yet...LOL), & I've got a little more done on 'em....I know I've been saying this forever, but it's gonna happen...LOL....
 
Hey I hate to ignite the GAS while you're this close to having it sorted, but if you like that 75, and you also like Greenbacks, the G12-65 will make you blow your wad. :D

You're welcome. :laughings:

I had gotten away from the 75s for a while. They're a fine speaker but they're more like a jack of all trades, master of none. Getting away from them, and then getting these two B cabs loaded with 75s has kind of re-kindled my appreciation for them.

In other news, I forgot to mention this, but a buddy of mine got a new LP Standard. It's a gorgeous guitar. He's a good player and says it plays great. To me it plays like pretty much any LP. I do feel differences in guitars but I'm not good enough to appreciate fine details. He's now sitting on 3 really nice LPs. This new one though, it's bright as fuck. Super bright. I wonder if "modern relieving" equals super bright as fuck. It's also got a bunch of gimmicks. Coil splits for each pickup, the neck tone pot pulls out to switch to parallel mode, and the bridge tone knob pulls out to send the pickup signal straight to jack. No filtering through the vol and tone pots. Straight to jack for full pickup power.

gibson-weight-relief.jpg


 
Dude, the GAS will always be there, I'm just having to keep it at bay is all....LOL....

Funny you should mention the 65's, I've already made up my mind the next speaker I'm gonna get....Of course, unless I find a really good deal on an old Celestion (which I don't think is gonna happen to be honest, I've seen old 65's like you've got for outrageous prices that I'd never pay, more than a new one....which I'm pretty sure the new ones aren't the same as the old ones, but even if they're the "holy grail" of old Celestions, I still wouldn't pay more for a used one than the new ones go for), it'll most likely be a WGS ET-65, remember, I'm a cheap fucker...:D.

On the T-75's, I'd always read they were scooped in the mids, I don't think that's really the case, I think other speakers are just more mid-heavy compared to 'em myself....Great speaker with my DSL-1 though, from the first note/chord when I got the speaker from you, I knew that was the missing ingredient I'd been looking for all this time....LOL...

What you said about your buddy's new LP sounds like mine, tone-wise....Bright as fuck, I never expected the LP I have to be this bright, every one I've played down the years was actually the exact opposite of bright to be honest...Mine makes for great articulation, I plugged the Ibanez in a few days ago, & even with the Duncan CC p'up, while it wasn't muddy, it was still a lot more "tame" in the high end than the LP....

Oh yeah, the finish on your buddy's new LP is how I though the one I bought was gonna look, which it ain't a big deal to me, & I'm sure he paid a lot more for that one than I did mine, but just sayin'....

Is that the guy who's a Randy Rhoads freak????
 
Yup, that's him. He's a freak for any 80's hair wank guitarist, but Randy and Eddie seem to be his idols. I don't hold it against him though, he's a great guy and a good friend. His bad taste in music means nothing to me. Haha. Phenomenal guitar player. All that idol worship has worked in his favor.

And yeah, that Standard was a little more than a Studio. I think he paid like $1900 for it or something. It's a beautiful guitar, but really it's nothing more than a dressed up Studio. The neck is really nice on it though. Really nice. It's an asymmetrical 60s neck. Very comfortable. It feels more expensive than a Studio. It just kinds of melts into your hands. Kind of like Customs. I've never played a Custom I didn't like, but I don't like them enough to pay for one. Maybe it's all psychosomatic. I know I'm holding a Custom so my mind tells me it's better than it really is. I need to do a blindfold test. Lol. So he now has that new Standard, a 50s faded Standard, and a Traditional like mine. He likes the 50s faded the best. It doesn't look as nice as the other two, but he likes the way it plays and sounds. For me, I'll still take my Trad Gold Top over any of them.

I know I've mentioned it before, and I think the ET-65 is a great speaker if you can't get a real 70s/80s G12-65. It's better than the new "Heritage" 65s. The 75s are not scooped, they just have a strong low end and a bright top end. That can give the aural illusion of being scooped, but their midrange is really just fine. I think they've just gotten a reputation of being kind of bland because they're so common. They have been THE Marshall speaker for 30 years now. Purists don't go for their kind of sound, but for more modern tones they're fantastic.
 
Ok, here's some more of my shitty wanking, in a shitty mix this time, LP > SD-1 > DSL-1 > T-75 > '57 & C1 mics....

Outta time again, I'll post the amp settings tonight when I get home....


 
Thanks for the compliment & listen Greg.....

No eq at all on any of the guitar tracks, not even a hp/lp filter on that clip....I suppose you're asking, because it's a little boomy, & I probably need to just cut the highs completely out of the C1 tracks, just let 'em be the bottom/chunk...If that's why you were asking, I'm way ahead of ya dude....IIRC, those C1 tracks are -2db lower than the '57 tracks too, might need to bring 'em down just another hair or so...

On the wah, guess what, that's an ampsim/modeler on the di track, via automation...:D...It may be a little bright, but really, I can re-amp/eq/whatever when I get the performance part a little tighter....While it's not bad, there are a couple/few things I don't like about 'em, so I'll end up doing a little more to 'em....Thanks again...

On the 65 speaker, IIRC, a guy in the Marshall forum had 4 of 'em for sale, & it was an outrageous price (for me anyway...way more than a new/re-issue, & way more than I'd ever pay for a speaker...), but they sold the same day...That's why I'm probably just gonna go the WGS route, without having to fuck around, just buy one & be done with it....Unless you'd sell me one of yours....LOL....If you ever decide to get rid of one, lemme know, I want first dibs on it...if not, no biggie, I'll just buy a WGS & call that part done.....LOL....

While I'm at it, do my programmed drums sound any better/more realistic??? I know the kick is way too loud, I listened to that clip today while I was getting ready for work, & especially at the end, but overall, do they sound any better than my previous attemps???

Looks like I'm gonna have to work this Saturday, not sure, but going by our production this week, more than likely....sucks, but it pays the fuckin' bills I guess....

Time for a shower, shit, shave, & some supper....LOL....

Oh yeah, tell your buddy he's my fuckin' hero....record him doing some of that shit dude, & post it up if you get a chance, I'd love to hear him play....very, very nice LP he bought too....
 
Oh yeah, almost forgot, the amp/pedal settings on that last clip:

LP > SD-1 > DSL-1 > T-75 > '57 & C1

SD-1:
Level: 10
Tone: 3-4
Drive: 0

DSL:
1w mode
Red channel
Gain: 4
Vol: 10
Bass: 10
Mid: 3
Treble: 5-6
Deep: On
Tone Shift: Off

Lovin' my 'lil setup right now, if I had a big amp, & a place to use it, I'd probably jizz all over the place just from the freedom of being able to crank something that's fuckin' loud up....LOL....

Lemme know what you were talking about on the back speaker eq thing, Greg......
 
Thanks for the compliment & listen Greg.....

No eq at all on any of the guitar tracks, not even a hp/lp filter on that clip....I suppose you're asking, because it's a little boomy, & I probably need to just cut the highs completely out of the C1 tracks, just let 'em be the bottom/chunk...If that's why you were asking, I'm way ahead of ya dude....IIRC, those C1 tracks are -2db lower than the '57 tracks too, might need to bring 'em down just another hair or so...
That's really good for no EQ. I wouldn't mess with it if it were me. Like you said, maybe bring the rear mic down a little more, but I wouldn't do any drastic stuff.

On the wah, guess what, that's an ampsim/modeler on the di track, via automation...:D...It may be a little bright, but really, I can re-amp/eq/whatever when I get the performance part a little tighter....While it's not bad, there are a couple/few things I don't like about 'em, so I'll end up doing a little more to 'em....Thanks again...
Haha, I knew there was something fishy about how perfect that wah sweep was. I never get my wah engaged, sweep, and disengaged that smooth but I'm also not very good with it. I use mine more as a wild effect as opposed to a subtle flourish. Your usage sounds really good.

On the 65 speaker, IIRC, a guy in the Marshall forum had 4 of 'em for sale, & it was an outrageous price (for me anyway...way more than a new/re-issue, & way more than I'd ever pay for a speaker...), but they sold the same day...That's why I'm probably just gonna go the WGS route, without having to fuck around, just buy one & be done with it....Unless you'd sell me one of yours....LOL....If you ever decide to get rid of one, lemme know, I want first dibs on it...if not, no biggie, I'll just buy a WGS & call that part done.....LOL....
I can't sell them because they're not really mine. That same buddy that just got the LP and loves Randy Rhoads, they're his. He took them out of a broken early 80s cab he got from somewhere, and just kept the speakers. The cab was broken like it fell off a truck or something. He had them sitting around in a closet for like 15 years and I finally talked him into doing something with them. So what does he do? He gives them to me! Lol. He's currently using an old 1982B model cab with G12H-100s in it. Very heavy speakers. I'm trying to get him to put the two 65s I'm not using in there, but he's not that interested.

While I'm at it, do my programmed drums sound any better/more realistic??? I know the kick is way too loud, I listened to that clip today while I was getting ready for work, & especially at the end, but overall, do they sound any better than my previous attemps???
They don't sound terrible, but they do still sound like obvious programmed drums. One thing that stands out to me is the snare. It's very monotone. It's the same exact sound on every hit no matter what's going on. No variation, no dynamics. It also seems to be very bottom mic heavy. Maybe that's just the sample used, but it sounds like a snare that's got too much bottom mic blended in. Not enough attack, too much snare buzz and resonance. The kick is kind of the same way, but not so bad. It's become common for modern kick drums to be a machine gun with every thwack being as loud as all the others. That's okay because it's just the kick, but for realism, a real kick drum played by a human foot usually has more dynamics. For example, very rarely are both hits the same when a drummer goes into double-kick mode. He can be a great drummer, but one foot almost always naturally sounds different than the other. Be it timing, tuning, or power, the left and right kick beats rarely sound identical. Even if it's a double pedal on one kick drum, the two feet get slightly different sounds. So look for that. Think like a drummer if you can. Thinking like a drummer is the key to making fake drums sound real. When you're writing the kick pattern, think "is this being done with one foot or two?" Most stuff is one-footed. When you're doing one footed patterns, the beats can be more consistent until you get into double strokes and triplets. That second quick thwap in a double stroke is gonna be weaker than the initial hit. That's just human dynamics and the physics of a kick pedal. The same goes for the snare. The right and left hand might hit with similar power, but the angle coming in is different for each stick. One stick might hit closer to center, one might be off center a little. One hand might rimshot a little snappier than the other. Little things like that alter the sound just enough to sound human. So when you're doing a snare track, think right and left hand. Most of your basic snare bashing on the 2 and 4 will be left handed (for a right handed drummer) so those can be mostly pretty consistent. But when you get to a fill, think of when the right hand comes in. Those snare sounds can be a little different for dynamics and feel. And then there's the overheads. We talked about panning before and you properly avoided the nasty crashes way out to each side. That's good. I think you can widen them out a little more though. They're a little too centered in that clip in my opinion. Don't go crazy, just spread them a little more. Toms too.


Oh yeah, tell your buddy he's my fuckin' hero....record him doing some of that shit dude, & post it up if you get a chance, I'd love to hear him play....very, very nice LP he bought too....
Lol. We're recording a new album right now so when we get to his leads I'll post some of them up.
 
That's really good for no EQ. I wouldn't mess with it if it were me. Like you said, maybe bring the rear mic down a little more, but I wouldn't do any drastic stuff.
Cool man, I was wondering what you were getting at with the eq question, but it makes me feel pretty good you giving me compliments on my guitar tones lately....To be honest, it's been a lot of trial/error for the last few months (longer really), but I feel like I'm finally getting somewhere instead of just spinning my wheels so to say....thanks dude!!!

Haha, I knew there was something fishy about how perfect that wah sweep was. I never get my wah engaged, sweep, and disengaged that smooth but I'm also not very good with it. I use mine more as a wild effect as opposed to a subtle flourish. Your usage sounds really good.
Well, this is a "studio" track dude, you keep punching in until you get it "right"....LOL....Automation is killer dude, I can change anything about the wah (to a point), so I'll go in & add some sloppy shit here/there to make it sound a little more real, & not so "exact/clinical"....LOL...Thanks dude...

I can't sell them because they're not really mine. That same buddy that just got the LP and loves Randy Rhoads, they're his. He took them out of a broken early 80s cab he got from somewhere, and just kept the speakers. The cab was broken like it fell off a truck or something. He had them sitting around in a closet for like 15 years and I finally talked him into doing something with them. So what does he do? He gives them to me! Lol. He's currently using an old 1982B model cab with G12H-100s in it. Very heavy speakers. I'm trying to get him to put the two 65s I'm not using in there, but he's not that interested.
No biggie dude, I remember now asking about one of 'em before, but again, no biggie....A WGS would probably be cheaper anyway, the only thing is I don't think they'd sound as good as an old Celestion....I'll find out before too long though, already got approved for a couple more small "toys" by the "warden" this morning....LOL...

They don't sound terrible, but they do still sound like obvious programmed drums. One thing that stands out to me is the snare. It's very monotone. It's the same exact sound on every hit no matter what's going on. No variation, no dynamics. It also seems to be very bottom mic heavy. Maybe that's just the sample used, but it sounds like a snare that's got too much bottom mic blended in. Not enough attack, too much snare buzz and resonance. The kick is kind of the same way, but not so bad. It's become common for modern kick drums to be a machine gun with every thwack being as loud as all the others. That's okay because it's just the kick, but for realism, a real kick drum played by a human foot usually has more dynamics. For example, very rarely are both hits the same when a drummer goes into double-kick mode. He can be a great drummer, but one foot almost always naturally sounds different than the other. Be it timing, tuning, or power, the left and right kick beats rarely sound identical. Even if it's a double pedal on one kick drum, the two feet get slightly different sounds. So look for that. Think like a drummer if you can. Thinking like a drummer is the key to making fake drums sound real. When you're writing the kick pattern, think "is this being done with one foot or two?" Most stuff is one-footed. When you're doing one footed patterns, the beats can be more consistent until you get into double strokes and triplets. That second quick thwap in a double stroke is gonna be weaker than the initial hit. That's just human dynamics and the physics of a kick pedal. The same goes for the snare. The right and left hand might hit with similar power, but the angle coming in is different for each stick. One stick might hit closer to center, one might be off center a little. One hand might rimshot a little snappier than the other. Little things like that alter the sound just enough to sound human. So when you're doing a snare track, think right and left hand. Most of your basic snare bashing on the 2 and 4 will be left handed (for a right handed drummer) so those can be mostly pretty consistent. But when you get to a fill, think of when the right hand comes in. Those snare sounds can be a little different for dynamics and feel. And then there's the overheads. We talked about panning before and you properly avoided the nasty crashes way out to each side. That's good. I think you can widen them out a little more though. They're a little too centered in that clip in my opinion. Don't go crazy, just spread them a little more. Toms too.
Thanks for the honest reply dude, I think I need to tweak some velocity hits (I'm using Jamstix to trigger the samples, which are actually an EZ Drummer expansion loaded in Superior), so I'll work on 'em some more....Really deep program that's got all kinds of shit you can do to humanize....I think I need to use another drum kit/sample thing too, I've been using that same expansion for most of my clips the last while, & yeah, they're kinda "bland" sounding.....thanks again dude, back to work on the drums...LOL...





Where I've marked/circled in red are just some of the things I can tweak in Jamstix....At the top are the power knob & dynamics knob, the power knob controls the overall power/hits of the whole shebang, & the dynamics controls the lowest "power" overall (IE: if it's at 50%, when you move the power knob, the drums will be noticeably lower in sound/velocity...)...

The "feel" thing I've circled on the right controls just about what you'd think, "pocket" allows you to have the "drummer" to play ahead/behind the beat, & the rest are pretty much self-explanatory IMO...

At the bottom what I've circled controls each hit (if you want), just click on whatever hit & hi-light it, then tweak the knobs to taste (velocity is self-explanatory, the timing allows each hit to go from -40 ms to +40 ms, or anywhere in between)...

Like I've said, this is a really deep program, the pic above is only 1 drummer out of about 15, & there are many styles (like 8th rock, 16th rock, metal, just examples, too many to name....plus, you can save shit as custom beats/fills/accents too)..Really deep program, that I'm just now getting my head around after over a year of using it...LOL...

Sure, it'd be easier to just have a real kit, but, like the big amps, no way I can do that here....Even if I could, I can't play worth a fuck, so it'd be a waste of time & $$$ for me to even try....I'd thought about getting an e-kit, but again, I can't play worth a shit, so this is the way to go for me until I find something else that's better, which ain't gonna happen I don't think, unless I can find someone to play drums for me, then it'd open up a whole new can of worms, mics, new interface, etc, LOL....

FWIW, I'd rather use Jamstix than the piano roll in Reaper, I know I'm still not using it (Jamstix) to it's potential (I've barely scratched the surface to be honest), but IMO, it's just better....

The page above is 1 of 3, the "groove" page, at the top, there's 3 buttons groove, accent, & fill...each one has different knobs to turn to tweak the performance....

There's also the "timing" sliders (they're at the left, where the song parts/lengths are), that I've been using automation to tweak the speed/timing of the songs (IE: a lot of drummers speed up a little during fills, might play a chorus a little faster...) you can speed up/slow down the overall timing by -15 - +15 ms....

Like said, it's a complicated program, but IMHO, it's a lot better than using the piano roll in Reaper....for me anyway...


Lol. We're recording a new album right now so when we get to his leads I'll post some of them up.

Be sure to post some of his playing man, I'd love to hear him....
 
Lol. Damn. That's what I don't like about programmed drums. I get that not everyone can use a real kit, or play a real kit, but all those tweaks you have to do just happen naturally with a human. In the time it takes for you to fiddle fuck one song to sound human, I could literally track a whole album. :D

But you do what you gotta do. Keep playing with those knobs and shit. Play with the timing a little. No drummer, no matter how good, stays dead on the grid. It's pretty common for a drummer to speed up just a hair in a fill going into a chorus. It's common to play a chorus harder, or if the drummer is on the ride cymbal he might hit the snare a little harder because his hi-hat arm isn't in the way. I play my hats pretty high to avoid that problem, but most drummers naturally play the snare with a little less gusto when they're on the hats. Little things like that are natural variances that make humans sound human. I can only imagine it's a nightmare to dial that shit up in a drum program, but those are the kinds of things fake drum tracks need. Velocity and power doesn't just apply to the drums though. The hats and cymbals get hit differently too. Listen to a Phil Rudd AC/DC drum track. He's like the ultimate robot human right? Listen to his hats. If he's playing 8th notes on the hats, listen to the "and" beats. 1-and-2-and-3-and-4. His downbeats are hard, the ands in between are softer. It's like....TSStssTSStssTSStss. That doesn't seem like a big deal, and I bet he doesn't even think about it, but it's things like that really drive the beat and keep it from sounding like a drum machine.
 
That's why I like to do drumbs with a keyboard. It's easy to get different impact levels and dynamics and stuff.

In other news, the Blue Angel has significant issues.
Pulled the power tubes ..... still blows fuses ..... pulled the rectifier tube ..... still blows fuses.
Next step .... changing out the rectifier diodes.
 
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