The New Tone Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Telegram Sam
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And by no means am I saying that recording guitar super loud is the best or only way to do it. But sometimes, many times, amps and speakers just sound better when they're loud. Some amps don't perform properly unless they're blasting. Try recording a vintage non-master volume Plexi or JMP at bedroom levels. It will sound like ass. Crank that thing until the paint peels off the walls, and you will be in tone heaven. :D

I think the whole point of the current trend towards low wattage tube amps is to get a saturated tube sound without the jet engine volume. But still, even a 20w tube amp will blow your face off when cranked. You gotta go low, like 5 watts, to get a cranked amp sound at reasonable volume. But then, you might not be pushing the speaker or cab hard enough. It's a trade-off. I'd personally rather just piss off the neighbors. :D

But there's lots of people getting great tones with low watt or reasonable volume levels. I'm just not one of them.
 
Greg, do you have your Strat modded as to be able control the tone on the bridge pickup?

The amp I bought doesn't really sound as good as it can until it is turned up pretty loud.
 
Telegram Sam said:
Greg, do you have your Strat modded as to be able control the tone on the bridge pickup?

The amp I bought doesn't really sound as good as it can until it is turned up pretty loud.
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No my Strat is stock. Stock whatever single-coil pickups came in it. The only thing I've done is shielded it, which didn't really work, and I installed a toggle for more pickup options - which I never use. Normal Strats aren't able to give you the neck + bridge, or all 3 pickups on at once. Mine does. Not that it sounds good, but it's neat to have. I never use the volume or tone controls besides rolling off the volume just to turn the guitar "off". I'm not a volume control kind of guy. My style doesn't go there. I really don't need any knobs at all. Just an on-off switch would be fine with me. When playing it's full-power wide open all the time. In fact, the volume knob isn't even on the guitar. I have no idea where it is. I took it off cuz it gets in the way of my playing. It hasn't been on there for decades.
 
Here it is....

20120222_135329.jpg
 
That's nice Greg, I've heard it, it sounds great.
Is that the Marshall behind it?
It sounds incredible.

ETA: Shit, you marked your speaker for the mic positions, Doh!
I'm going to try again with the Vox.
 
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Telegram Sam said:
That's nice Greg, I've heard it, it sounds great.
Is that the Marshall behind it?
It sounds incredible.

ETA: Shit, you marked your speaker for the mic positions, Doh!
I'm going to try again with the Vox.
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Thanks, and yeah, that was during my early testing phase. A little white electrical tape for consistency. Moving mics around on 4 different speakers can be time consuming and confusing. I think I got it mostly figured out now though. I went through the same shit with the 800 I was using at the practice space. I fiddled and fiddled and fiddled, then found the sound, and never changed a thing after that. Although that Greenback clone cab was easier to mic for some reason. It didn't care where you put the mic. Don't ask me why.
 
Greg_L said:
I think the whole point of the current trend towards low wattage tube amps is to get a saturated tube sound without the jet engine volume. But still, even a 20w tube amp will blow your face off when cranked. You gotta go low, like 5 watts, to get a cranked amp sound at reasonable volume. But then, you might not be pushing the speaker or cab hard enough. It's a trade-off. I'd personally rather just piss off the neighbors. :D

But there's lots of people getting great tones with low watt or reasonable volume levels. I'm just not one of them.
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I've done a lot of tracking with "medium" wattage amps (20-30W), and I would usually end up somewhere in there mid-point level-wise.
I do notice that for leads, the level isn't as key for tracking...loud can get you some nice saturated tones, but you can dial in some great tones even at low levels, but with chords/rhythm, it seems like if you run the amp down too low of its power range, the harmonics of the chords suck ass...especially in the mid-high end. It just sounds cold/brittle.

So...I'm going to be going much louder and see how that comes across...though, it depends on the amp/cab and all that too, not just amp level.
 
miroslav said:
I've done a lot of tracking with "medium" wattage amps (20-30W), and I would usually end up somewhere in there mid-point level-wise.
I do notice that for leads, the level isn't as key for tracking...loud can get you some nice saturated tones, but you can dial in some great tones even at low levels, but with chords/rhythm, it seems like if you run the amp down too low of its power range, the harmonics of the chords suck ass...especially in the mid-high end. It just sounds cold/brittle.

So...I'm going to be going much louder and see how that comes across...though, it depends on the amp/cab and all that too, not just amp level.
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Yeah everything works together. For a speaker that breaks up early, like a Greenback, you won't have to be blazingly loud to get the speaker to it's sweet spot. On the flip side though, the amp might not be working to it's full potential. I suppose that's why the classic combo of a vintage 100w Marshall into a cab loaded with Greenbacks sounds so sweet and right on the ragged edge of destruction. Same with Mesas and their Mesa-spec Vintage 30's. The amps voice and power output closely matches the usable range and voice of the speakers. I've learned that you can't overlook the speaker when it comes to the overall tone. That's the last stop for the signal, and different speakers sound vastly different even under the same amp, same amp settings, and same player and guitar. My Vintage 30's and G12T-75s sound worlds apart with the same guitar and amp settings. They're not even close. They both sound good to me, but they definitely have very different characteristics. It's like mics.
 
I believe you, different speakers sound completely different.

I had a hard time choosing between a greenback and the blue alnico for my 15 w Vox AC15HWx.

I am hoping that the good match between the 15w speaker (went with the Bulldog) and the 15w amp will enable me to get to the same edge
of breakup on a somewhat smaller scale.

I'll probably end up getting a single Vox cab with a greenback later to be able to compare the two.

I found these videos helpful when I was making my decision:



 
Yeah I show those vids to everyone that doesn't believe that speakers make a huge difference. Good video.
 
I still have several extra speakers in my closet, even after selling a few off...all from trying out different brands/models.
The ones I have left I kept because I liked them, but not necessarily with all of my amp/cab combinations.

The tone I'm always chasing is that solid mid tone that has a decent low end thump, but where the the highs are still articulate without any hash/fizz or that real sharp high-end bite when you get the speaker to break up.
I hate using the term "warm" for everything, but yeah, where the high-end is crisp/clear, but warm...not brittle/harsh or too chimey/glassy.
 
miroslav said:
I still have several extra speakers in my closet, even after selling a few off...all from trying out different brands/models.
The ones I have left I kept because I liked them, but not necessarily with all of my amp/cab combinations.

The tone I'm always chasing is that solid mid tone that has a decent low end thump, but where the the highs are still articulate without any hash/fizz or that real sharp high-end bite when you get the speaker to break up.
I hate using the term "warm" for everything, but yeah, where the high-end is crisp/clear, but warm...not brittle/harsh or too chimey/glassy.
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Watch those videos Sam posted. They're pretty cool.
 
Learned a lot reading this thread.
Amps...speakers...cabinets...a slippery slope to navigate when searching for tone. Wow.
 
Yeah, the videos or cool for demonstrating that speakers DO sound different, but they does little in the way of helping anyone actually pick a speaker, since the type guitars you generally use, styles of music you generally play, type of amp(s), the amp settings and the cabinet...will all add to the final tone.

I've pulled a speaker a really liked out of one amp/cab combination, tried it in another and hated it.

One other thing that is nicely demonstrated in that video is how different a speaker can be for rhythm/chords and leads.
Some that sound great on leads sound awful with chords. That has been my studio quest....finding stuff that sounds great for rhythm/chords.
I don't have problems with lead tones...but depending on the song, dialing in the right rhythm tones can take time.
Granted, I don't always do intense/up-tempo hard driving rhythms, which I think are less of a hassle to record since you pretty much have the amp kicking and everything melds together. It's with the more cleaner, articulate stuff where I hate it when the mid-highs/highs have that fizz/hash (which isn't an issue with hard driving rhythms).

I may just set up one amp with rhythms in mind...really dial it in for that. I've got a couple of speakers that would probably work well....I just have to get off my ass and spend a day swapping/trying different combinations.

This past weekend was mic shootout weekend. I spent a couple of days just trying out mics and mic positions on one single amp, so I could really see what each mic would do and how it compared to the others. Recording the same rhythm tracks over and over and over. :D
It's been surprising. The mic that is working out the best is not the one I would have picked out of the box!
 
miroslav said:
Yeah, the videos or cool for demonstrating that speakers DO sound different, but they does little in the way of helping anyone actually pick a speaker, since the type guitars you generally use, styles of music you generally play, type of amp(s), the amp settings and the cabinet...will all add to the final tone.
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No doubt. Those vids are good for the non-believers though. I had a bandmate that swore up and down that the speaker was of little importance. I made him watch those vids. He saw the light.

It's been surprising. The mic that is working out the best is not the one I would have picked out of the box!
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Post that shit.
 
Greg_L said:
Post that shit.
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I have the last pass I did with a four mic setup. I don't have all the previous passes saved, but this last one is probably where I liked all four mics the best anyway. I'll save it and cut it up and post it when I get a chance.
 
Greg_L said:
Yeah I show those vids to everyone that doesn't believe that speakers make a huge difference. Good video.
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I thought about what you said about speakers beng like mics and it dawned on me that
of course they are; they are essentially just big mics in reverse!
Of course they are all going to be different depending on how they are constructed.

If I made a 12" speaker (or a large diaphragm mic for that matter) I'm pretty sure hey would both sound like shit. :p

Greg_L said:
Post that shit.
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+1
 
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