Studio construction questions

[michaelq]

Please keep in mind with these questions that theoretically this studio will be handbuilt by me, in a house that I will have also built, so no existing structures need to be dealt with-so in other words any suggestions can be thrown out here.

What are some of the things that have large implications on the tracking room? control room?
Are proportional dimensions important/desired in each of these?
I've heard floating slabs mention for studio foundations, what exactly is this? -just foundations detached from the rest of the buildings foundation?
What are some conclusive sites/books i can look to for answers, besides trying to force myself through massive acoustics books?
If the studio part were to be on a second floor, besides lugging gear upstairs, are there any other complications that arise?
I have heard that sound is thinner or maybe just acts differently at higher elevations, the example I believe compared a recording in Denver, to a recording in New Orleans (it would sound far different now) saying that the mile high one would be lacking. Can anyone verify/explain this to me, and can anyone throw out any ideas for compensating for this in studio construction? The proposed site is at an elevation of 4300 feet so i'm a bit concerned.
and Lastly, is there anything else I should be asking?

...i apologize for the myriad of questions, its as they appeared in my head , if anyone has any answers have at it!

 

[Narco2]

Most of your ansers are here

http://www.johnlsayers.com/

and here

http://www.ethanwiner.com/


What are some of the things that have large implications on the tracking room? control room?

you'll want non parallel walls, non parallel floor - ceiling, the width shouldn't be the same as the length or a multiple thereof.

If you've got the money a floating room inside a room can't be beaten for isolating sound.

Also for isolation high density walls are good.


"If the studio part were to be on a second floor, besides lugging gear upstairs, are there any other complications that arise?"

the construction of a studio is heavier than most normal construction, you may have (but probably won't have) to strengthen your building further, depending on how you build the studio.



Lugging gear, if any of your equipment is too big to fit through the door put it in first before building the full walls.

"I have heard that sound is thinner or maybe just acts differently at higher elevations, the example I believe compared a recording in Denver, to a recording in New Orleans (it would sound far different now) saying that the mile high one would be lacking. "

The speed of sound is different in thinner air, I suppose there won't be as much air to move the microphones membranes. If you've never noticed your stereo sounding different then I can't see this being a problem.

It sounds like you don't have much knowledge on the subject, why do you want to build a studio, or are you made of money?

narco

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

i apologize for the myriad of questions, its as they appeared in my head , if anyone has any answers have at it!

No problem. But seriously, if you are in a position to build this from the ground up with the house, there are TONS of things to work out. And I mean TONS I don't really have the time at the moment to delve into this one. Tomorrow I will post some stuff. However, there are Three threads you seriously need to read THOROUGHLY. These are serious projects and no holds barred. This is the REAL STUFF The concepts they are dealing with are far beyond what most people can do in a retrofit type project. But since you will be in a position to specify and build correctly from the exterior in, it will allow you to build correctly in the first place.
Basically, you need to do an analysis of what the environmental noise floor is around the proposed building site. Then a target Transmission loss analysis can be proposed, of which, the correct rated assemblies can be specified for the builder. This includes the slab or floor, the exterior shell leaf, the interior shell leaf and roof. Also, HVAC concerns as far as silencers and ducting. There are literally a million details to consider as well as budget. Anyway, I'm outa time but here is the links. I'd read the first one in full. That'll take you a MONTH as its about 180 pages long!!! Yikes. Also, go to the FAQ's section and the acoustics section. Tons to learn here. I'll get back here tomorrow.
fitZ
http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?t=107
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2921&sid=299b93565d3d6dacfdf546827e934717
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=839&sid=299b93565d3d6dacfdf546827e934717

 

[michaelq]

Rick - i have started Paul Woodlocks IMMENSE and entertaining studio diary. Thank you for sharing that resource. I see I have quite a bit of reading to do, to say the least. Better to get deep enough into before ever starting construction

It sounds like you don't have much knowledge on the subject, why do you want to build a studio, or are you made of money?

Narco-thank you for your answers, but your end remarks hold a tone I happily hadn't had to run into on this forum.
No i'm not made of money by any means-that is why i'm building it myself. I dont have knowledge of acoustics or studio design yet, that is why i'm here seeking answers. This studio design isn't happening tomorrow, i'm accumulating the knowledge now, so i can do it Thursday or something HA!

Unlike some other audio recording forums on the web this one i've found has been about people openly sharing their knowledge and for the most part encouraging others projects, not people providing answers solely for the purpose of feeding their egos.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

It sounds like you don't have much knowledge on the subject, why do you want to build a studio, or are you made of money?

Hello michaelq.
Well, I may not be an expert but I'm certainly NOT lacking in knowlege, only moola Thats why I build everything in my studio except the recording gear.
Actually, I have a small studio in my home that I am currently working on. My studio is for my own pleasure, so there is no rush. . Nothing like Pauls mind you. I don't need to protect myself from my wifes displeasure with 140db music at 2 in the morning Nor do I have neighbors, so his level of isolation isn't needed. However, thats not to say my studio is not technically designed for acoustics. I linked you to Pauls thread because you are building from the ground up and I thought it would behoove you to see a project that is based on real research and acoustical science. Plus, it's documented step by step. Not because I lack knowlege on the subject.

i'm accumulating the knowledge now, so i can do it Thursday or something HA!

Does that include breaks?

Well, if and when you need some help, don't hesitate to ask. If no one here has an answer, I'm sure we can link you to someone that does. Good luck. BTW, post a plan if and when you do.
fit

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

On second thought, I forgot to address your present questions.

If the studio part were to be on a second floor, besides lugging gear upstairs, are there any other complications that arise?

Only if there are consequences such as bothering people. The main issue is a wood membrane floor acts like a drumhead, which structurally transmits vibrations. There are a couple of things you can do, but they are both very expensive. But this has to do with lots of other factors, such as what type of instruments and music you plan on recording, the DB profile of the music(50db? 110db?) the environmental noise floor and sources of noice in your vicinity that are likely to transmit vibrations into the house framing. Like close proximity streets with truck and buss traffic, or railroads, or airports, or gang warfare etc etc. Also, if you are trying to isolate sound from rooms below and adjacent to the studio. The structural framing of the support floor will have to accomodate the solutions chosen to do what ever job the need to.

Once you can define your what it is you are trying to isolate, then you can determine an appropriate transmission loss rating you need. Usually, for the environmental noise,( if it is a problem) you can measure the ambient sound over a week or two, at various times of day, around the property in various directions, and then average for different times of the day or night. Then again, your situation may not even warrant this approach. Thats why no one here could actually tell you anything untill you define some of the sonic characteristics that you will be dealing with. For example, if you wanted to record at night, while your mother in law is sleeping below, and you play rock drums, I'd roll my eyes and tell you be prepared for reality check. On the other hand, if you play piano, want a great sounding room, have no roomates or other people in the house, and no neighbors, I'd say it was doable. Another example. Say you wanted to record rock music, one or two instruments at a time, but other people watch tv below, or there is an adjacent bedroom, I'd say its doable, with certain caveats attatched. Unless of course, you are Bill Gates, which I take it you are not. But this should illustrate why the environmental, human and music/instruments determine the isolation needed.
As to high SPL/low frequency isolation, on an upper floor,there is only one thing that will do it. A floating CONCRETE SLAB, which is done all the time. However, it is expensive, and the support framing must not only be engineered to support this weight, but the weight of the room which is built upon this floating floor.....in essence...a floating room within a room.
However, thats the extreme. But if thats what you need, then thats what you need. PERIOD. Other than that, then you compromise, which is what most home studio people do anyway. Remember, a WOOD framed floor on an upper level, is usually structurally tied to adjacent rooms as well, with subflooring panels sheithed over the joists BEFORE partition walls are built. That means the joists and panels can run UNDER the partition walls, thereby providing a DIRECT FLANKING PATH for structural transmission to other areas of the house. Thats what I was referring to as a drumhead. Not only will it transmit to spaces below, but to adjacent rooms, as they are PART of the drumhead
That is also why vibrations from close proximity trucks, trains, cars etc can also transmit INTO the house, and directly up the framing to the second floor, which again, acts as a low frequency vibration transducer. ie...speaker cone
So, the only way to isolate HIGH SPL sound at the getgo, is to DECOUPLE a RIGID MASS on either resiliant springs or fiberglass isolators. There are numerous commercial systems that are available. Some are designed as a thin ROLL OUT pad of semi rigid fiberglass with neoprene pucks that you lay another layer of ply or OSB over, and then your finish floor. However...
all these systems are EXTREMELY expensive. And require their own details such as perimeter float screeds for concrete, structural engineering, etc etc etc. Needless to say, HIGH SPL isolation on an upper floor is difficult and expensive.

Also, part of the solution design hiarchy, depends on other things too. Your roof leaf, your HVAC, and whether or not you float a concrete slab or use a roll out solution. If a FLOATING room scenario were to be required, then there are various other things to consider. Walls built on the slab or on their own isolators, ceilings supported by floated walls, or suspended from the stuctural roof framing, etc etc etc.

So, as you can see, second floor studio isolation design, is defined by a lot of factors, of which budget usually will also determine the compromise points.
Well, thats about as far as I have time for at the moment. Here is my disclaimer. I am certainly no expert, and I'm sure some people will either dispute or at least argue some of these points. So be it. I'm all ears. But thats my .02 anyway. BTW, good luck with the compromises.
fitZ

PS. MY studio is also on a second floor. I made the main compromise right from the getgo. No neighbors, no environmental noise, wife has to live with it regardless.......ie...NO ISOLATION.

 

[Kryptik]

I'm not an expert on acoustics or studio construction, but I'd seriously reconsider putting the studio on the second floor, especially if this is a residential home. For one thing you really have no idea what is going to change in the future. You never know, you may end up with a wife (God forbid) who doesn't want to deal with the sound, your mom may loose her house and move in with you, the list goes on. But if Murphy's Law works as well for you as much as it does for me, I'd reconsider for those reasons aloan. Also, and more important, it would likely be much more difficult to sell the house if you need to. Most people looking for a home aren't looking for bedrooms with skewed walls and you would probably scare away even the most easy going of buyers (including me). Also and even more problematic, your bank may have the same concerns.

Either way, I don't know where the house is to be located, but you may want to plan for environmental noise much louder than they are now. Maybe plan for a loud suburban street. There has been alot of development going on in this country lately, and if your area is developing at even a tenth of the rate that mine is, ten years from now, street traffic will quadruple, with bigger cars, lots and lots of construction vehicals, vehicals with sirens, bikes, and all kinds of other loud crap.

I don't know if you're planning on pouring a basement, but you'll have a hard time finding more mass than an 8" thick wall of concrete back by the earth when it comes to isolation. You just have to worry about isolating the ceiling then. And you may want to pour it a little deeper than normal to allow for ductwork, pipes, and whatever you have to do to isolate the ceiling in the basement. You may have code issues with that though.