Studio build in unfinished "bonus room" above garage

I'm in the middle of building one of my HVAC Baffle boxes......
:eek: Already? Hmmm, what did you decide to build? What happened to "hold youir horses"?:p I guess you ARE impatient.:D How are you going to check these with a sound meter? :confused:

I'm using Johns Manville R-13 ComfortTherm to line it
Can't you find duct liner? I think they sell it at most HVAC places. At 3 1/2" thick, these must really have big air paths..you are'nt forceing the air THROUGH this stuff are you?:confused:

Anyway, I did some more on the HVAC just to hone my "follow me" command skills in Sketchup. This was a good project to learn more about it.;) BTW, is this where the HVAC is? One problem I had though is visuallizing what the roof does on the west wing. By the looks of the framing, something is going on that I can't figure out, although its not important for anything but my "mind exercises". :D
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Anyway, I have some stuff for you. But its probably to no avail...the $2600 must be burning a whole in your pocket.:D

For what its worth, I looked at your design and suggest moveiing the wall you built for the door. In my mind, it makes for a very un-symetrical rear wall. Anyway, heres some pics of the idea. I won't go into details unless you are interested though. Still painting doors today. :rolleyes:

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Well I'm tired, and outta time. Let me know if you want to see more. This project of yours could really turn out to be really cool if you could hold your horses.:D Lots of stuff to consider BEFORE deciding on your floor and drywall.
Well gotta go now.:)Have fun and good luck with your baffle boxes. Don't hesitate to ask if I can help in any way. This is fun for me:D
 
Hey Rick!!!! Finished the honey-do list yet? 46 cabinets? I thought I had it rough!

Already? Hmmm, what did you decide to build? What happened to "hold youir horses"? I guess you ARE impatient. How are you going to check these with a sound meter?

I know you're kinda kidding about "holding my horses"......probably my biggest problem with this whole project (other than I freely admit to being impatient:rolleyes:) is that it started 3 years ago, so I've had plenty of time to stew over it.....now, that DOESN'T mean I've been doing research all those 3 years.....if that were the case, I'd be teaching some of the other people on this board......but it does mean that it's been in the back of my mind for a long time, and now that I have a slight bit of money, I'm really eager to get started/finished......

As to the project.......the way I "tested" faced versus unfaced was extremely unscientific.......I tested with the intro to Alan Parson's "Days Are Numbers" (AP is my 2nd favorite group) since it's pretty consistent....I sent the output thru my computer's Logitech left speaker.....I put a big piece of faced insulation 6" in front of speaker and tested on the other side with the sound meter, using the average and peak db. Then I tried same unfaced and compared the difference......the unfaced was 1 db quieter. How's THAT for unscientific!!!!

As it turned out, it didn't matter anyway really......when I started lining the box (48" X 24" X 12") I quickly realized that 3 1/2" would take up too much area and really choke the airflow.......what I ended up doing is taking the insulation and tearing it in half......that's how I lined the box....

Here are a few pics:
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By the looks of the framing, something is going on that I can't figure out, although its not important for anything but my "mind exercises"
This one made me smile....you sound so detail-oriented, I'm kinda like that myself.....here are a few pics of my house.....the first 2 I got off Google Earth street view, the others are from 6 years ago when the house was being built:
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Hope that helps!!!:D

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Oops, how did a pic of my wife get in there??? Ha ha ha OK, so I got a little crazy with pic posting.....

Anyway, I have some stuff for you. But its probably to no avail...the $2600 must be burning a whole in your pocket
Uh, no....yours and anybody else's opinion mean alot to me....that's why I'm on this board....but yeah, OK, the $2600 is getting warm :eek:

Appreciate all your drawings man.......moving the door wouldn't be that difficult, I don't even have that part insulated yet.....but what exactly is the purpose of the other door? I DO have an open area there but it's really small.....it would really be a bitch to get any work done in there (the sheetrocking, etc.....) What are you suggesting for it, like a storage closet? For sound "shaping"??? Very curious about this, let me know......

I'm assuming you're suggesting knee-walling the west side also? Because right now the slope goes from ceiling to floor.....

This project of yours could really turn out to be really cool if you could hold your horses
This is fun for me:D
Glad you're getting "involved":p Yep, it's gonna be fun....already has been.

Let me know if you need any more pics for your "mind exercise"......and let me know if that other door and area is designed for storage or what.....since it doesn't lead anywhere what else could it be used for, ya know?


Appreciate it Rick, more than you realize man

Robert
 
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If that was REALLY my wife, I would probably not be posting here....ever.....or anywhere else......ever........or even take time to turn on the computer.....ever :D:D:D
 
Hey Rick!!!! Finished the honey-do list yet? 46 cabinets? I thought I had it rough!
Ha! Theres no such thing as "finishing" a honey do list.:rolleyes::D I'm still working on 2001's:mad: Hahahahahahaha! Thats why "I" haven't finished my own studio.:rolleyes::(:p

Actually, thats 46 cabinet DOORS. What were doing is remodeling my father in laws mobile home...fuck...worst project I've ever worked on. Made in 1984. Cheapest piece of shit ...the problem is EVERYTHING is made of a VINYL covered substrate..walls, cabinets, doors, trim..fuck..this stuff sucks. The ONLY thing you can do is PRIME it with an oil based primer before you do ANYTHING. And this thing is a 3 bedroom double wide. Not bad size wise, but geeeezus did they make these things cheap back then.

Anyway, I brought all these crappy cabinet doors home to refinish them. They are made of a crap particle board frame with a 1/8" layer of some vinyl faced fiberboard, thats machined along the edges. I found out during this fiasco, the best thing you can do is buy the ORIGINAL KILTS primer. Sucks to work with but works good on vinyl. Nothing will stick to vinyl unless you prime it with this stuff first. Took a week of testing different stuff on different surfaces to find out.

Actually what was worse was the walls. When they build these pieces of shit, they slap up 1/4" drywall factory faced with vinyl WALLPAPER crap. Uglyest thing you ever saw. Then they staple these narrow vinyl covered strips over the joints:eek: Normally, drywall has a tapered edge on the long side, which allows for taping and mudding. But nooooooooooo, this stuff only allows filling the gaps. But you can't use joint compound because it will crack eventually. I use a product called DryDex. Its like spackle, but it has fibers in it. It actually is pink when you put it on, but when its dry it turns white. That way you know when to sand it. btw, it works great.

But, the problem is, you have to prime the joints first. Then fill. Then sand. Then prime the whole damn wall. And THEN...the good ole caulking trick.:rolleyes:
Becuse they cover every joint with a tim of some kind, after you prime, you see a MILLION little uuuuuuuuuuugly gaps!! I caulked till I was sick of it.
Went through 10 tubes...geeezus was my finger sore.:eek::p BTW, I use a GREAT caulk called
You ought to try it if you can find it. Best stuff I ever used. The trick is to keep a wet rag handy, and wet your finger prior to dragging the surface. The other trick is to only cut the tip at a slight angle, and cut it back where the hole is real small,and only allow about a 3/32" bead or so. Depending on the gap though and this mobile home had some real doooozies.:D

Then shoot texture. Then RE-prime the whole damn thing again with a latex primer before painting...fuck..took forever. Got everything painted except the cabinets. Shot the doors with the primer(after 2 days of prep:rolleyes:) and then I shot the finish coat yesterday. I use an electrostatic spray gun for latex. I've got an airless, but too much fuss for this little job. The primer, even though oil based, if you let it dry good and hard works like lacquer sealer. You can sand it, reprime, sand again and the surface comes out nice and smooth. Then shoot with a good quality latex semi gloss. I normally use lacquer, but you can't use a laquerthinner based product on vinyl. It simply lifts the vinyl coating. So, I had to use and oil based primer instead.

Then I get to RE-laminate the countertops, re lino, and then its...yup...the BATHROOMS!:eek::eek: Most fucked up shit you've ever seen. I won't go there though. Lets get on with your project.:rolleyes::D

Ok, it's 5 in th morning. Don't know why I got up but I couldn't sleep last night. Maybe it was the half pint of Black Velvet.:D

Alright Robn. HEY! Your baffle box looks GREAT!:eek::cool: I thought you might build it out of 2x6 like that first picture.:rolleyes: One suggestion though if you haven't closed it up yet. I WOULD take the time to find some duct liner. Works MUCH better than a thin layer of batt insulation. Its the DENSITY that counts.
And your construction tells me something about you.:cool::D Do you have a table saw? How bout a compound chop saw. If not, they're cheap. I just bought a Hitachi for $90. Cheap. Works great too. If you decide to build the rear wall like I showed, you'll need one...and some compound miter skill too!!:D

Soooo, where are you putting this thing?

you sound so detail-oriented, I'm kinda like that myself
You don't know the half of it.:p Detail is right. Thats because I was an architectural mill DETAILER for many years. First on the board, then computer. Of course, that was after spending YEARS on the bench as a union
journeyman millworker. I KNOW what detail is. Like they say...son, its all in the details.
. :D

In fact Robn, thats kinda what I wanted to show you here. Theres lots of PLANNING to be done so you know EXACTLY what needs to be done PRIOR to drywalling. Electrical, lights, blocking, built in cabinetry, signal lines, etc etc etc. There are tons of things I didn't bother to show you yet unless you were REALLY interested.

Ok, this post is getting really long, so I'm going to go on now. Hey, thanks for the pics(especially the pretty one:D ...THAT woke me up!!:eek:(droool..pant pant!....sigh:p) Ok, NOW I know whats happening on that west side. A fucking dormer! DOH!!!:D I KNEW there was something strange there. Hahahahahaha! Nice looking house you have there. Musta cost a fortune.

One other thing Robn. I won't go into it here, but in my mind, FORGET the RC.:eek: At least for now. You actually need to do some tests with your sound meter first. Later on that. Just hold that thought for now.:D

Last thing. So, are you interested in building the rear wall as I showed. There are quite a few reasons for it. Later on that too. I need coffee.:mad::rolleyes::) Ha! Ok dude, later.
fitZ
 
Hey Robn, how bout a break down on your equipment list. And what your recording format is(your computer too) I've got some ideas for ya.:)
 
One other thing Robn. I'm sorry I haven't addressed every question you've had. But I WILL. Just wanted to get some preliminary plans in place so we have a point of reference. I'll address each one as we get to it. Like I said. First things first...like planning.;)
 
Oh God, man that cabinet doors thing sounds like a nightmare.......you gonna be working on that one til the Rapture.

My first house had that wood paneling from floor to ceiling......I cut it a little short of halfway, capped it, wallpapered from cap to ceiling, and painted the paneling. Had hell with trying to keep a coat on it.....finally had to primer it about 3 times before it would hold a coat.....small taste of what you're going thru but I kinda have a glimpse there.

Yeah, I already put a big bead of acoustic caulk on it and closed the box up.....BUT I may build another one tonight for the supply duct and if I do, I'll look around for some duct liner.

I cut the holes in the end with a standard jig-saw.....my construction skills are fairly sucky but I do the best I can. As to location, it's going in the attic, as far away from the studio room as possible.

Glad you liked the "pretty pic"....just thought I'd spice up the thread a bit :D

Thanks for the comments on the house.......6 years ago construction costs were cheaper, and it didn't cost a fortune.......but the house payment could drop some and not hurt my feelings any. The house plans are from one I found on the Internet.....my builder had never built one like it before so it was "interesting" during the construction.

Forget the RC? Really? That's a surprise........let me know what you have in mind there. As to the back wall, are you also suggesting I take down my interior wall or leave it up? On the "closet", man, that's really gonna be a bitch to work with, not much real estate to work with in the corner......but yeah, I'm willing to listen.....always.

Equipment list? Right now I have an older DAW running a 2.8 GHz Intel...only 1 GB of RAM but my MB max is 2 GB.......also I'll need to slap in a couple of SATA drives to replace the IDE's......since I want to use 2 monitors I'll need to do something about the video card.....I probably just need to just about gut it and upgrade. Got a Marshall 65W Valvestate.....acoustic guitar is a Yamaha Silent Series that will be DI........modded 87 Strat, Xaviere XV-910 semi-hollowbody, brand new (just got it last week) spalted maple Michael Kelly Patriot Custom with coil tapping.......let's see......sold my MOTU audio interface about 3 months ago so I'll be shopping for an audio interface replacement........CME UF70 MIDI controller 76-keys. Software is Sonar 8. 3-4 various mics......Event PS-5 monitors. Old Alesis MidiVerb II......Digitech GNX4.......that's about it......most all my recording will be DI except for of course vocals and I might occasionally close-mic my amp. No bass guitar or drums, so there's no low freq going in......mainly concerned about playback/mixdown as far as "noise" goes.....

The HVAC guys will be out early in the week......they will want to know how far to drop the supply/return grills.......that's my most pressing thing time-wise.....I haven't called an electrician because of the changes you've suggested would alter that aspect too much.

Any other questions, let me know.

Thanks guy
 
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Did some rudimentary sound tests on my baffle box tonight......somewhat unexpected results, but then what do I know? :eek:


Sound meter - CEM DT-8850 using A Weighting
Distance of test (box) - 48"
Tone wav files created using Sine Frequency

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The box actually amplifies low freq but does a good job in the mid to highs.
 
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Did some rudimentary sound tests on my baffle box tonight......somewhat unexpected results, but then what do I know? :eek:


Sound meter - CEM DT-8850 using A Weighting
Distance of test (box) - 48"
Tone wav files created using Sine Frequency

bboxTest.jpg



The box actually amplifies low freq but does a good job in the mid to highs.

In studios I have built in the past with ducted air con, I have found that the larger the ducting and the less restriction usually means lower air con noise due to the slower air flow through the duct and grills.

It could be that the Baffle box is a bit too restrictive, either slow down the air flow or make the openings bigger.

At one studio we put in a ducted system with 10" duct and grills, we had too much air noise even with the fan at the lowest speed, we upped the duct size to 12" (would have liked it bigger but no room) and the largest grill panels I could find and the noise come right down.

At a later studio where we had a baffle box, the duct was 12" in and out and the box stood 6' tall by 4' wide and 16" deep and the air went from the bottom to the top and turned down to the bottom again, 12' of baffle but with low restriction (low noise).

You can also reduce the noise (and slow the flow a little) by turning the duct back onto itself then back again like a large S shape.

If you talk to Air con people (good ones) they can help you with this stuff.

Cheers

Alan.
 
Alan,

Thanks for the reply.......here is a pic of my baffle box just in case you missed it earlier:

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The return ducting has an 8" inner diameter.....the holes in my baffle box are 7 1/4 per the HVAC guy's instructions.

I hear what you're saying about the box being restrictive......but I couldn't build it any bigger or it wouldn't fit thru my opening into the attic :D And hey, this is West Texas and I ain't just about to build it in the attic......we've already had 26 days of 100+ weather this year!
 
Yes we understand hot here too, our summers get up to and over 100 degF here as well. We hit 110 last summer, the studio air con was working overtime.

Off course in some parts of the world they are looking at studio heating ha ha ha.

Cheers

Alan.
 
Yeah, rub it in will ya.......what is it there right now, about 55??? :mad:

40 to 66 every day this week, just stopped raining (severial days), the sun is shinning. Middle of winter and Cold for here.

I keep having to convert Celsius to Fahrenheit for you guys as we use Celsius here. i.e 4 C to 19 C this week.

Can't really complain about the weather in Fremantle apart from the really hot summer for a few months, http://www.visitfremantle.com.au/en/Local+Weather/default.htm

Cheers

Alan
 
40 to 66 every day this week,

40-65 every day here and its the middle of summer.:D Even have a nice fog in the mornings. Burns off around 10 and the rest of the day is gorgeous.
I love the Oregon coast in the summer. Winter sucks though. Rain for 6 months or more. Oh well, it beats 110 in the Sacramento valley where I used to live.:rolleyes:

Hey Robn, give me a couple of days on this to complete some stuff. I'm still working on the mobile home and it doesn't leave me much time. God I can't wait to finish that damn thing. I want my life back.:mad::D
 
I hate both you guys, as I sit here with the temp already at 88


Signed,

Baking in the sun Robert
 
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Hey Rick,

Yeah, I'll TRY to be patient.....anything I can do in the meantime that won't mess things up, like starting on the west side knee-wall? BTW, I'm really really curious to know why you don't recommend RC........


P.S. Good luck with your Project From Hell
 
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