Studio build in unfinished "bonus room" above garage
- Thread starter robn
- Start date
RICK FITZPATRICK
New member
I'm gettin there.
Now I can see whats going on.
fitZ
Now I can see whats going on.
fitZ
Holy crap!
Looking good!!!
Had an HVAC guy come out today and checked out what's there so far.......I really need to read up on this aspect because he hasn't really done anything outside the norm so far as this goes......
Calling an electrician to check out the existing work today.......I also need to decide pretty quick what the wall/ceiling is going to be......as I mentioned earlier, I think I'll go with RC on all walls and ceilings....but don't know about the drywall.....either 1 sheet of 1/2" or 1 sheet of 5/8" or 2 sheets of 1/2" with Green Glue or something similar. I'll need to decide this soon because the HVAC and electricians are going to have to know the final spacing from the studs.....
Thanks!
Looking good!!!
Had an HVAC guy come out today and checked out what's there so far.......I really need to read up on this aspect because he hasn't really done anything outside the norm so far as this goes......
Calling an electrician to check out the existing work today.......I also need to decide pretty quick what the wall/ceiling is going to be......as I mentioned earlier, I think I'll go with RC on all walls and ceilings....but don't know about the drywall.....either 1 sheet of 1/2" or 1 sheet of 5/8" or 2 sheets of 1/2" with Green Glue or something similar. I'll need to decide this soon because the HVAC and electricians are going to have to know the final spacing from the studs.....
Thanks!
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RICK FITZPATRICK
New member
My biggest concern is LF vibrations induced into the floor membrane, which in turn struturally transmits to the roof joists...ie. direct transmission. Other than adding mass to the floor, the only other option is the material I suggested. Frankly though, I really don't know what this would do to prevent it. Like Rod said..studios on a second floor REALLY have a problem. The floor membrane.
Personally, I'd consider adding a layer of 1/2" ply to the floor, and then float another 1/2" ply on top a top quality 1/2" carpet underlayment pad. Then a finish floor. Lots of work though. I would research it first. The point is to get a "decoupled finish floor", with "decoupled monitors" on stands made of mass(probably placed close to the wall perimeter), which are not touching the finish floor...or something to that effect. No matter, you dealing with a real mindfuck.
As to the walls/ceiling...yea, I'd go with 2 layers of 1/2"/green glue/ on RC. Real bitch to get everything aligned though. Think storyboards for the RC install. I'll show you what I mean later.
fitZ
ps...thanks.
Personally, I'd consider adding a layer of 1/2" ply to the floor, and then float another 1/2" ply on top a top quality 1/2" carpet underlayment pad. Then a finish floor. Lots of work though. I would research it first. The point is to get a "decoupled finish floor", with "decoupled monitors" on stands made of mass(probably placed close to the wall perimeter), which are not touching the finish floor...or something to that effect. No matter, you dealing with a real mindfuck.
As to the walls/ceiling...yea, I'd go with 2 layers of 1/2"/green glue/ on RC. Real bitch to get everything aligned though. Think storyboards for the RC install. I'll show you what I mean later.
fitZ
ps...thanks.
Rick,
I agree, the floor is a problem.....somewhat limited by what I can do there.....I think your advice is good though, and that's probably what I'll end up doing....the final floor will be laminate, so it will need an underlayment anyway...
I called Harris Acoustic here in town......they can get single leg RC but I think they have 25 gauge.....they may be able to get 20 gauge but not sure....I think I've read where 16"-24" spacing is about right on the studs, so I'll have to whip out the calculator and figure out how much I'll need to order.
As to Green Glue.......have you had any personal experience with it or know anyone who has? I'm just curious as to why it would be any different than say Liquid Nails or something similar from Lowes/Home Depot.......other than the price
Does Sayers site have much info as to the best HVAC solution, or have you got anything bookmarked that is informative?
Appreciate your help man.
I agree, the floor is a problem.....somewhat limited by what I can do there.....I think your advice is good though, and that's probably what I'll end up doing....the final floor will be laminate, so it will need an underlayment anyway...
I called Harris Acoustic here in town......they can get single leg RC but I think they have 25 gauge.....they may be able to get 20 gauge but not sure....I think I've read where 16"-24" spacing is about right on the studs, so I'll have to whip out the calculator and figure out how much I'll need to order.
As to Green Glue.......have you had any personal experience with it or know anyone who has? I'm just curious as to why it would be any different than say Liquid Nails or something similar from Lowes/Home Depot.......other than the price
Does Sayers site have much info as to the best HVAC solution, or have you got anything bookmarked that is informative?
Appreciate your help man.
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After doing about 3 hours of reading, I haven't found anything that would make a good replacement for Green Glue......too bad it costs so much......actually it's not terrible.....one of the sites I found has it listed at $165 per case.....a case has 12 29oz tubes.....so doing the math that's 47.4₵ per ounce.....not so bad when you look at it that way........
Here's an estimate for RC and drywall, someone please check my math.....
RC
This is with following specs: 2" above floor, 6" below ceiling, 24" spacing
West = 8
North = 5
South = 5
East=7
Ceiling=4 (1 2" from each edge, 1 in middle)
Door=1
Total=30
Drywall
This is with the following dimensions: 1/2" X 4' X 12'
West=8
North=4
South=4
East=6
Ceiling=4
Door=2
Using Green Glue's coverage calculator, I would need 494 sq ft of coverage....if used at 50% (which they say will be at least 70% as effective as 100% use), I will need 2 cases.......BUT they sell 2 cases at $165 per case......they sell a 5gal bucket with 365 sq ft coverage for $250 (assuming 100% coverage, 730 sq ft at 50% coverage), so the 5gal bucket may be the better way to go....
Partial Budget
RC - 32@$2 = $64 (I added in a couple of extra pieces)
Drywall - 28@$9 = $252 (It's actually $8.97 at Lowes)
Drywall screws - $25
Green Glue 1@$250 = $250
HVAC estimate given today - $300 including permit fee
Electrical estimate yet to be given - $300 estimate
I already have the acoustical caulk and the electrical box putty pads.....
I'll need tape/bedding, paint, track lights, laminate flooring....etc.
The door will be some extra cost also......I already have 1 door but don't know yet how I'll treat it.
Not counting whatever I do to the floor, I'm at $1191
If I went with RC, 1 layer of 1/2" (and therefore no Green Glue) - $815
My total budget is $2600, so hopefully I'm on schedule
RC
This is with following specs: 2" above floor, 6" below ceiling, 24" spacing
West = 8
North = 5
South = 5
East=7
Ceiling=4 (1 2" from each edge, 1 in middle)
Door=1
Total=30
Drywall
This is with the following dimensions: 1/2" X 4' X 12'
West=8
North=4
South=4
East=6
Ceiling=4
Door=2
Using Green Glue's coverage calculator, I would need 494 sq ft of coverage....if used at 50% (which they say will be at least 70% as effective as 100% use), I will need 2 cases.......BUT they sell 2 cases at $165 per case......they sell a 5gal bucket with 365 sq ft coverage for $250 (assuming 100% coverage, 730 sq ft at 50% coverage), so the 5gal bucket may be the better way to go....
Partial Budget
RC - 32@$2 = $64 (I added in a couple of extra pieces)
Drywall - 28@$9 = $252 (It's actually $8.97 at Lowes)
Drywall screws - $25
Green Glue 1@$250 = $250
HVAC estimate given today - $300 including permit fee
Electrical estimate yet to be given - $300 estimate
I already have the acoustical caulk and the electrical box putty pads.....
I'll need tape/bedding, paint, track lights, laminate flooring....etc.
The door will be some extra cost also......I already have 1 door but don't know yet how I'll treat it.
Not counting whatever I do to the floor, I'm at $1191
If I went with RC, 1 layer of 1/2" (and therefore no Green Glue) - $815
My total budget is $2600, so hopefully I'm on schedule
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RICK FITZPATRICK
New member
Hey Robn. Hold your horses for a day.
I worked on this till midnight and didn't finish. I want to show you some things that may alter your plans a bit. Let me get some coffee in me and I'll try to finish this thing up..at least what "I" think I would do in your shoes. It might even require a bit of demo and rebuild, but not much. So hang in there. I'll be back..its only 6:30 in the morning. wtf am I doing up this early????
Yeah Rick, what ARE you doing up at this hour? You're supposed to be semi-retired, remember? That means you are entitled to sleep til at least 10:00
Naw, I haven't ordered anything, just trying to get rough ideas on prices and starting to get more exact numbers on supplies rather than just estimates....BUT I will admit, patience is not one of my virtues......I have a feeling though that the axiom we have in saltwater fish tanks (I'm into that hobby as well) also holds true in studio building :
"Only bad things happen quickly"
Naw, I haven't ordered anything, just trying to get rough ideas on prices and starting to get more exact numbers on supplies rather than just estimates....BUT I will admit, patience is not one of my virtues......I have a feeling though that the axiom we have in saltwater fish tanks (I'm into that hobby as well) also holds true in studio building :
"Only bad things happen quickly"
I'm gonna work on a couple of baffle boxes this weekend for my HVAC setup. Here is a pic from a guy who did a DIY one:
Here is a pic of a sidecut car muffler:
If I went with the second design, I could substitute 3" PVC for the metal pipes and either plywood or sheetrock for the metal sides.
Either design would be heavily caulked with acoustic caulk and lined with insulation. I will probably wrap the whole thing externally with insulation also. I talked to my HVAC guy today and he said no problem, just to leave him a 7 1/4" hole in both sides........
Which design would be most efficient? And also, wood or drywall??? (I was going to use wood).......
Thanks!!!
Here is a pic of a sidecut car muffler:
If I went with the second design, I could substitute 3" PVC for the metal pipes and either plywood or sheetrock for the metal sides.
Either design would be heavily caulked with acoustic caulk and lined with insulation. I will probably wrap the whole thing externally with insulation also. I talked to my HVAC guy today and he said no problem, just to leave him a 7 1/4" hole in both sides........
Which design would be most efficient? And also, wood or drywall??? (I was going to use wood).......
Thanks!!!
RICK FITZPATRICK
New member
Hello Robn. I'm certainly no expert, but i have read some posts of Rods, and some other things on this subject, and from what I gather, the path of the airflow should approximatethe the diameter of the duct or LARGER..not smaller. Here is one of Rods designs.
https://homerecording.com/bbs/attachment.php?attachmentid=51239&d=1216556674
https://homerecording.com/bbs/attachment.php?attachmentid=51240&d=1216558615
These things have been highly studied in the HVAC world, and from my understanding you could actually introduce turbulance noise. Professional "baffle boxes" are actually called SILENCERS. I'd do some reading first. Like here. The first is an HVAC engineering forum. You might discover some things.
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=233392&page=12
http://www.kineticsnoise.com/industrial/silencers/sound-attenuators.html
and this one is funny
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=118585
this one is specific to DIY for home studios.
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/bass...m-etc/191876-ac-duct-sound-dampening-diy.html
heres more..
http://forum.doityourself.com/archive/index.php/t-295362.html
and this one illustrates my point
http://forum.doityourself.com/archive/index.php/t-295362.html
and here is a shitload of threads at Acoustics.com. Find the ones where Rod or Eric Desart replys.
Here is some pics of one of my designs.
I was helping VelvetElvis with a designs(based on Rods advice)for a baffle box in his studio. It was for the supply AND return. However, I've since learned you need to position these things as far away from the grills as possible. This one had integeral grills. He never built it though.
btw, hang in there. I have a few observations and optional solutions for ya. I'll be done soon.
And a few ideas for your baffle box if you don't jump the gun.Rick,
I guess then the cross-cut muffler design works because the diameter of the introducing noise (basically coming off the engine thru the incoming pipe) is the same as the internal pipes themselves? So if I built an HVAC baffle box with Design 2 there would be too much "choking down" of the incoming noise source? Seems like that's also what is said in the "eng-tips" link you gave me. I had already noticed the silencers from the KineticsNoise website....I bookmarked it a couple of weeks ago because it has some good info and products in it.....
So your design is for 1 box to handle both the intake and output sides? I would think the best area for these baffle boxes would be at the tie-in area which would be as far away from the grills as possible......
Right now my duct output is tied in but my intake is not, it's basically just laying on top of the rafter studs.......since my HVAC guy will be out here early next week, I'm going to go ahead and build my baffle boxes this weekend......but thanks for the design ideas and links......I was leaning towards design 2 but I'm gonna go with either your design or Design 1 and I'll make sure the air path is large......
Yeah, I'll hang in there and wait for ya.......do you have any idea though on spacing from the wall/ceiling studs to the finished wall? Right now my electrical boxes are spaced WAY out from the studs because I was planning on RSIC clips and 2 layers of 5/8"....that was 3 years ago.......if I knew the spacing you had in mind I can call my electrician sometime this weekend and he can move the boxes to the right distance while he's inspecting the actual previous work......no problem if you don't have that info yet, he could still inspect the existing work and I can adjust the distance myself later........I'll be patient.
Thanks guy
I guess then the cross-cut muffler design works because the diameter of the introducing noise (basically coming off the engine thru the incoming pipe) is the same as the internal pipes themselves? So if I built an HVAC baffle box with Design 2 there would be too much "choking down" of the incoming noise source? Seems like that's also what is said in the "eng-tips" link you gave me. I had already noticed the silencers from the KineticsNoise website....I bookmarked it a couple of weeks ago because it has some good info and products in it.....
So your design is for 1 box to handle both the intake and output sides? I would think the best area for these baffle boxes would be at the tie-in area which would be as far away from the grills as possible......
Right now my duct output is tied in but my intake is not, it's basically just laying on top of the rafter studs.......since my HVAC guy will be out here early next week, I'm going to go ahead and build my baffle boxes this weekend......but thanks for the design ideas and links......I was leaning towards design 2 but I'm gonna go with either your design or Design 1 and I'll make sure the air path is large......
Yeah, I'll hang in there and wait for ya.......do you have any idea though on spacing from the wall/ceiling studs to the finished wall? Right now my electrical boxes are spaced WAY out from the studs because I was planning on RSIC clips and 2 layers of 5/8"....that was 3 years ago.......if I knew the spacing you had in mind I can call my electrician sometime this weekend and he can move the boxes to the right distance while he's inspecting the actual previous work......no problem if you don't have that info yet, he could still inspect the existing work and I can adjust the distance myself later........I'll be patient.
Thanks guy
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RICK FITZPATRICK
New member
Hey Robn, I need some info as soon as possible.When you refer to the "tie in", isn't that right above the adjacent room? Arn't you just tapping off the supply and return above that room? What is in the attic space beside that room(the area that you built a wall about 10 or 11 inchs out from. Would it be feasable to build a baffle box in there? In the meantime, I've worked out a plan for a couple of boxes that simply fit between the rafters.
However, I need to know which duct goes clear to the end of the room..ie..the return or the supply?
And what is the INSIDE diameter of these flex ducts?
Attachments
Rick,
Yes, the tie-in is above the adjacent room.....yes to the 2nd question also...the attic space is empty space......I'll take a pic of it and it will help...
You mean build a baffle box in the space between the adjacent wall and my internal wall? If so, it's possible......I'll take a side-shot of that just in case that's your question.
A baffle box between the rafters may be difficult though, it's a tight space. Not ruling it out though......wouldn't it be best to be as far away from the grills as possible though? Just wondering.....
The duct that goes to the end of the room is the supply, the one that blows air INTO the room.....I don't know why they ran it so far though.....seems like you'd want your supply centrally located in the room......maybe they wanted as far a separation as they could get from supply and return???
I'll measure the flex ducts and take a few pics.....give me about 15 minutes...
Thanks!
Robert
Yes, the tie-in is above the adjacent room.....yes to the 2nd question also...the attic space is empty space......I'll take a pic of it and it will help...
You mean build a baffle box in the space between the adjacent wall and my internal wall? If so, it's possible......I'll take a side-shot of that just in case that's your question.
A baffle box between the rafters may be difficult though, it's a tight space. Not ruling it out though......wouldn't it be best to be as far away from the grills as possible though? Just wondering.....
The duct that goes to the end of the room is the supply, the one that blows air INTO the room.....I don't know why they ran it so far though.....seems like you'd want your supply centrally located in the room......maybe they wanted as far a separation as they could get from supply and return???
I'll measure the flex ducts and take a few pics.....give me about 15 minutes...
Thanks!
Robert
RICK FITZPATRICK
New member
RICK FITZPATRICK
New member
Because you want the cool air pulled COMPLETELY the length of the room.
btw, I'm outta time for the moment...things to do...wifes yelling at me...got 45 cabinet doors to paint. arrrrgggrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
RICK FITZPATRICK
New member
btw, maybe now you'll understand why I wanted to know EXACTLY how this thing went together. I have MUCH MORE to show you. Tonight.
I have MUCH MORE to show you. Tonight.OK, took some pics...
Distance between 2 walls is 7.5"
This was a big surprise......the supply is a LONG LONG total run...here are some pics:
A dual baffle could work, and could actually sit on or float above the upstairs A/C unit.......or is putting a baffle on the supply even necessary? The total run is probably about 50'-60'......WOW
The inside of the duct is 8"
Distance between 2 walls is 7.5"
This was a big surprise......the supply is a LONG LONG total run...here are some pics:
A dual baffle could work, and could actually sit on or float above the upstairs A/C unit.......or is putting a baffle on the supply even necessary? The total run is probably about 50'-60'......WOW
The inside of the duct is 8"
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RICK FITZPATRICK
New member
Hmmmm, I don't really know cause I ain't no HVAC expert.I DO have an idea though. Why don't you join the HVAC engineering forumand ASK? I've done this many times on different forums. Got answers, and lots of them right away.
Post your relebvant pics and maybe show my suggestions. Bet you will know within a day.
I'm in the middle of building one of my HVAC Baffle boxes......I'm using Johns Manville R-13 ComfortTherm to line it, it's 3 1/2" thick...it's plastic wrapped on both sides.....should I cut the plastic on the outside parts or leave the plastic on? If no one has an answer, I will do a sound test faced versus unfaced with my sound meter.....just thought someone might know.