RMS question...

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Change of POETS

Change of POETS

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Guru's, if I have a mastered track with, let's say... -12dbFS RMS, what is the equivilant in dbVU? Would it be +6dbVU? Or is that math incorrect? :confused:

Secondly... Most masters on albums I love the sound of, are showing me RMS values round -12dbFS, to (at the most) -9dbFS. To me, that's plenty loud... I have an album that a fellow artist friend had mastered by a major studio in portland, and his tracks are giving me RMS readings of -3dbFS!!!! :eek: It's very wide, and "Full" sounding, but there are absolutely no dynamics... the track can't breathe at all. :(

I'm not opening the loudness debate here but, is there any reason (other than radio) to have a master that loud?
 
Change of POETS said:
I'm not opening the loudness debate here but, is there any reason (other than radio) to have a master that loud?
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Even radio isn't a good reason!
 
Change of POETS said:
is there any reason (other than radio) to have a master that loud?
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It's really a matter of taste more than anything else.

Other than that, another factor is the density of the music itself. It's a lot easier to pump pink noise up to -3dBRMS than it is a recording of a metronome in a quiet room ;)

But no, there is no "reason" - good or bad - why something "needs" to be that loud other than that's what the artist (or project producer) wants.

G.
 
Change of POETS said:
Guru's, if I have a mastered track with, let's say... -12dbFS RMS, what is the equivilant in dbVU?
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Here, hope this helps:
 

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Hey Flat,

Can I ask where you got that chart from?

G.
 
Change of POETS said:
No, it was mastered at Prairie Sun in Portland, I believe.
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There is a Prairie Sun in California, but not in Portland Oregon.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Hey Flat,

Can I ask where you got that chart from?

G.
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I had it in my "illustrations" folder where I save stuff from my web research.
I think it's from something I read awhile ago over at the EM or SOS archive. Do you want me to see If I can find the link to the article??

:D
:D :D
:D :D :D
 
flatfinger said:
I had it in my "illustrations" folder where I save stuff from my web research.
I think it's from something I read awhile ago over at the EM or SOS archive. Do you want me to see If I can find the link to the article??
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Well, you don't have to break a sweat finding it for me, I thought maybe you might have the reference at hand. But I would be interested in the article which accompanied it and related information; the graph raises a couple of questions in my mind and I'd like to find out more about it.

G.
 
Change of POETS said:
Guru's, if I have a mastered track with, let's say... -12dbFS RMS, what is the equivilant in dbVU? Would it be +6dbVU? Or is that math incorrect? :confused:
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It all depends on how you calibrate your system. Some calibrate -18 dBFS to match 0 dBVU others may use -20, -14, or other level.
 
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Or rather, how the digital converter building dudes calibrate your converters. Apparently there was no standard set that says 0dbu or whatever must read as -18db in a digital audio converter.

That is a pretty cool diagram you dug up there, flatfinger.
 
Reggie said:
Or rather, how the digital converter building dudes calibrate your converters.
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The translation from dBFS/dBVU is done during A/D and D/A conversion. One needs to adjust their input or output faders/trims to ensure proper reference levels. Usually you have control over this and in better converters adjustments there as well.
 
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masteringhouse said:
It all depends on how you calibrate your system. Some calibrate -18 dBFS to match 0 dbVU others may use -20, -14, or other level.
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This is why I wanted to look more into how that chart was created, as it seems to assume not only that the relation between dBu, VU, and dBFS is static, but it also assumes VU is calibrated to +4dBu, and that 0VU is calibrated to ~-14dBFS.

I can live with using the +4 convention for the chart, as long as that's explained as not applying to -10 calibrated gear or to tape machines with VU calibrated to tape saturations instead of line levels. And the -14dBFS calibration, while within the nominal range, does not jive with the conventional wisdom for most gear - at least as has been reported many times in this forum - of -18dBFS. This chart relates -18dBFS to 0dBu instead of 0VU, and doesn't take into account either the reportedly more common standard or the fact that it can reportedly vary by manufacturer.

I gotta run for now, have not yet had time to read the article (THANKS for the link, sunny! :) ), but these are the questions/ambiguities that the chart alone bring to the surface for me at this point.

G.
 
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to flatfinger again.



Thanx for that chart...and thanx for the link Sunnydyz.
 
I,ve been using -14dbfs for a few years now ever since I started using the PSP "vintage meter " while tracking ( there out of poland I believe). It installs with a default value of 0 VU reference value of -14dbfs. That might be a european idea as to where we should be here across the pond. SOS is out of the U.K. (love the large format and most content, hate the shipping cost)

I think I've seen that 0VU ref. value recomended other places as well, But I guess it's only a de jour standard.

I changed the " vintage meter" VU integration ( attack ballistics) from the default 300 ms to 450 ms and have been very happy with the ease of use from the "old fashioned" :p VU metering.

I started out watching the stock DAW peak meters like a hawk and trying to use "every bit" !.
Man, what a waste of time :D


All this has inpired a new Avatar. :rolleyes:

:D
:D :D
:D :D :D
 
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Ford Van said:
There is a Prairie Sun in California, but not in Portland Oregon.
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Interesting... I'm not sure of the studio name, then. I know the engineer goes by the name K-IV (K-4) and owns a studio in the Portland area.
 
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