Replacing tuning pegs?

  • Thread starter Thread starter obsidian3d
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Victory Pete said:
By more wraps the better, I didnt mean 38! Have you no common sense? I have a few Martin manuals, I think you are describing what I have already brought up.
VP.:eek:
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Did you mean four? That's probably the most recommended by Martin. It makes no statement anywhere near "more wraps the better," and, in fact, recommends keeping wraps to a minimum. Which, for those of us not overly proficient in English, is the exact opposite of "the more wraps the better."
 
Ok kids, enough fighting. Back to the topic at hand:

- my guitar is a solid-body, bolt-on neck with a regular bridge. No tremolo or fancy stuff. It is not a strat-style body, but I don't remember what the proper name for it is.
- the tuners are 6 in-line, each one is separate.
- the neck, nut and frets are original. There is no buzz or extraneous noise when I strum them guitar, bend a string or play with vibrato.
- when I string the guitar I use 3 to 4 wraps on the peg, stretch each string by pulling on it and stretching it up and down, then play the guitar (bends, vibrato, heavy strumming etc). I usually do this three to five times, retuning after each time.
- if my ears aren't playing tricks on me I think it is the G, B and occassionally high E string that seem most likely to go flat.

Did I miss anything?
 
obsidian3d said:
Ok kids, enough fighting. Back to the topic at hand:

- my guitar is a solid-body, bolt-on neck with a regular bridge. No tremolo or fancy stuff. It is not a strat-style body, but I don't remember what the proper name for it is.
- the tuners are 6 in-line, each one is separate.
- the neck, nut and frets are original. There is no buzz or extraneous noise when I strum them guitar, bend a string or play with vibrato.
- when I string the guitar I use 3 to 4 wraps on the peg, stretch each string by pulling on it and stretching it up and down, then play the guitar (bends, vibrato, heavy strumming etc). I usually do this three to five times, retuning after each time.
- if my ears aren't playing tricks on me I think it is the G, B and occassionally high E string that seem most likely to go flat.

Did I miss anything?
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As we have said the most likely cause of the problem as you describe it is a badly cut nut. The strings stick in the nut slot and over time and or playing they move in the slot then stick again. The same is also possible at the saddle end but less common. A decent tech will have it fixed in under half an hour and should be part of a decent setup.
 
Awesome, thanks for the info. I'll book it in with the shop this month and have them check replace the nut for me. As much as I'd like to strip it down and repaint it...I'm just too damn lazy. If it'll play in tune that's good enough for me, since I just want to play it at home and maybe use it on a recording or two.
 
obsidian3d said:
Awesome, thanks for the info. I'll book it in with the shop this month and have them check replace the nut for me. As much as I'd like to strip it down and repaint it...I'm just too damn lazy. If it'll play in tune that's good enough for me, since I just want to play it at home and maybe use it on a recording or two.
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No problem. I appreciate it is hard to seperate the decent info in this thread now.:D

The main consideration when diagnosing a tuning problem like yours goes like this.

Does it happen on all strings or just one or two? If it's all strings it would point towards something more serious like a dodgy neck join or the bridge not being secure, possible but not often a problem with the truss rod. If its local to a few strings it indicates that the guitar itself is sound as it's holding tune for some strings.

That leaves the parts that directly effect those strings, the nut, saddle and tuners. In 30 years and 1000's of guitars you can count the times I have seen tuners as the problem on one hand and that has been down to rare but not impossible friction build up on the pinion. It's almost never the tuners.

Good luck and I hope you get it fixed. You shouldn't need a new nut just the existing one dressed to suit the strings you use.
 
obsidian3d said:
So is there a way to rule out the tuners as the culprits? And if it's not the tuners, how do I go about pinning down what IS the cause of the problem?
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Very easy. Get a Sharpie and put a mark on the top of the peg that shows the rotational orientation of the peg; if the peg hasn't rotated when the guitar goes out of tune, then the tuner is not slipping.

To check for nut squeeze (friction in the nut), after tuning and stretching, play a note in the middle of the fretboard and bend it as far sharp as you can and then release it. Is the string now flat? If so, without turning the tuner for that string, push down on the string between the nut and the tuner as hard as you can. Is the string back up to pitch or maybe even a little sharp? If so, you've got nut squeeze. If you have a plastic nut, change it to a bone or graphite one; plastic nuts are notorious for grabbing the strings.

Another thing to check for is a detached nut. With the strings off, the nut should be firmly attached to the headstock end of the fretboard. If you can waggle it around, then this could be a source of tuning problems.

Good luck!
 
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Qote from Light re: extra headstock mass via tuning peg weight:
No, some guys will imagine they like the sound more. In fact, there will be no difference. They will particularly imagine they like the sound more when they have just spent a stupid amount of money on some device to add mass to the headstock. It's a myth. And a stupid one with absolutely no logical or scientific basis behind it. All a heavy headstock does is fuck up the balance of the guitar.
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Thanks for the honest reply. I had that in my head...lets say from some un-scientific data that I had read and some experience with a couple of my own axes. I experimented last night with adding some weight to the headstock of a Les Paul. It was about 7 ounces of metal. I didn't spend a lot of time with it, but acoustically, I did not hear any difference with it clamped on - of course, that wasn't exactly empirical data either... Usually I'm the skeptic about such things.

Anyway, I appreciate the experience and knowledge that you and Muttley share on this board - thanks.
:cool:
 
sheesh! what a lot of fussin' and fightin'

Hey there folks,I may be just a newbie to this particular forum but it seems to me that there were very few actual detailed solutions to obsidians problem.It would appear that some folks haven't ever considered that no matter how right they are absolutely sure that they are ...they could be wrong.Process of elimination being THEE tool for troubleshooting problems tell me to start at the nut ( most likely the cause) move to the saddle(Type of bridge will dictate if the problem lies therein) and only then would I condider the tuners as a possibilty.Can't we all just get along.Oh and in a related story.I have been playing,fixing and repairing a lot of different stringed instruments for 40 years....for free.It's a passion related to my passion to actually play them.
 
drixen said:
Hey there folks,I may be just a newbie to this particular forum but it seems to me that there were very few actual detailed solutions to obsidians problem.
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On the contrary, he has been given all the information and explanation needed to diagnose and fix a problem such as his.

Process of elimination being THEE tool for troubleshooting problems tell me to start at the nut ( most likely the cause) move to the saddle(Type of bridge will dictate if the problem lies therein) and only then would I condider the tuners as a possibilty.
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I pointed out exactly that in afew posts, so did light.

The rest of the problems with this thread began when a total wacko turned up spreading all kinds of nonsense and gets all precious when people piss on his bag of chips.
It would appear that some folks haven't ever considered that no matter how right they are absolutely sure that they are ...they could be wrong.
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Oh and in this case I am certain that light myself and anyone else who has said check the nut, saddles and disregard the tuners is 100% correct.

Can't we all just get along.
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The guy in question has spouted complete rubbish in other threads here. There is no point getting along when a, he doesn't understand the subject or listen to those that do, b, pretends he does know the subject but refuse to back it up when challenged, c, is likely to result in someone actually damaging their guitar if his advice is followed.
Oh and in a related story.I have been playing,fixing and repairing a lot of different stringed instruments for 40 years....for free.It's a passion related to my passion to actually play them.
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Good to have you on board.
 
the most important info in this thread that relates to the OP's question is that it's not the tuners. As ermghoti said, it's never the tuners unless they're broken. A worm gear can not slip ...... it's simply impossible unless the gear is stripped and that would show up while tuning because it would not go in tune in the first place.

And while I'll grant that Light, because he knows his shit, can be occasionally be a little condescending; he really does know what he's talking about. I don't always agree with him but it's mostly on electronic stuff or views on gigging, never about guitars or how to fix them.
He and Muttley are two great resources available on this board.
 
Binding in the nut

ggun,

I tried the exercise from post #48 to check for nut squeeze. I constantly have to tune the G string even after stretching the hell out of it. I tuned it up, bent it as far as I could and it went about 20 cents flat. I then pushed on the string between the nut and tuner and it went about 20 cents sharp. Sounds like nut squeeze, correct? I've attached some photos of the nut on my Gibson Les Paul Standard. It doesn't look right to me even after taking it to a repairman. Next thing I am going to do is try the string locking technique from the link in this post when restringing.

thanks,
Mike
 

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gtrplayer5150 said:
ggun,

I tried the exercise from post #48 to check for nut squeeze. I constantly have to tune the G string even after stretching the hell out of it. I tuned it up, bent it as far as I could and it went about 20 cents flat. I then pushed on the string between the nut and tuner and it went about 20 cents sharp. Sounds like nut squeeze, correct? I've attached some photos of the nut on my Gibson Les Paul Standard. It doesn't look right to me even after taking it to a repairman. Next thing I am going to do is try the string locking technique from the link in this post when restringing.

thanks,
Mike
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No. Tying a knot at the peg or doing an over-under wrap won't help you; it's friction in the nut slot that's retaining the tension, and there's nothing you can do at the peg to counteract it.

BTW, I did that knot thing exactly once. It didn't solve any tuning problems and it was a b!+(# to get the high E string loose from the peg when it came time to change it.

PS: Save your pictures at lower resolution before you post them; it will make them smaller. 72 ppi is web standard, I believe.
 
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