re: ambient clicks and pops

  • Thread starter Thread starter Richard1949
  • Start date Start date
For reference purposes, HERE is the bottom line on power conditioning and power supplies from my son, with emphasis on his final statement. And trust me guys, this man knows his shit:

"On the power conditioning side, any filter is just that. It can modify what's there to certain degrees but they can't fix what's really bad or just not there (dips, harmonics...). The only true solution to get perfect power is an "Online double conversion" type UPS. No other type of cheaper UPS ( line interactive, etc) will do as they're just a glorified filter with a battery backup. The online type take the incoming AC, turn it into DC, charge batteries, and convert it back into true clean guaranteed quality AC. There's even better and lesser quality of those. Some do square wave simulated AC output, some do true AC sine wave.
Those unfortunately are expensive. I'm looking into options but the cheapest I found so far are >$650.

I looked to see if there's such a thing as a 120 AC to 120AC inverter without the battery backup fewature like a UPS, which might be cheaper. But as hard to believe as it seems, I only found one, it was industrial, and cost over $3k.

I found the Eaton Tripp Lite SU700XLCD (standalone $625) and the SU750RTXLCD2U (rack mount $765) units.
UPS Battery Backups at CDW

​

Here's the CyberPower OL1000RTXL2U $895 at amazon​

Amazon.com: CyberPower OL1000RTXL2U Smart App Online UPS System, 1000VA/900W, 8 Outlets, 2U Rack/Tower : Everything Else​


These off-brand from a 3rd party seller on Amazon @ $375 and up might be considerable:
Amazon.com: OPTI-UPS DS1000E (1000VA / 1000W) Online Double Conversion Uninterruptible Power Supply, Pure Sine Wave, UPS Battery Backup, Surge Protection : Electronics

Amazon.com: MARUSON 1000VA Online UPS Battery Backup, Double-Conversion Uninterruptible Power Supply, TAC-TW1KB : Electronics

You don't need a lot of VA (wattage) I assume for the equipment to record, but that should be considered to make sure a unit has enough. And again, nothing besides "Offline double-conversion" will give you guaranteed quality power. Anything lesser of a filter/converter will still pass some issues through."
 
I think you're going really deep into something that may not have any bearing on your issue here.

A few comments:

1 I don't see where you have ever posted the model HP computer or the interface. It's really hard to diagnose issues when you don't know what you're dealing with. All you've mentioned that I see is Presonus One and an HP with 32GB ram. I'll assume that since you're running Presonus One, you have a Presonus interface. Is it powered by USB like an Audiobox, or a wall wart like the 1824? A Quantum? If you're running off USB, then I seriously doubt that anything beyond a $60 UPS will do you any good since the power is supplied by the computer's power supply, which should be well regulated. Even running off a wall wart, it's unlikely that surges and spikes strong enough to cause interference are getting through. If you're using a laptop, you can run off battery and totally eliminate any power issues.

Your environment could affect the power grid if you're on the same line as some heavy industrial equipment (arc welders, large motors, etc). If so, then you can be looking at power conditioners. I've never run into an issue in normal residential situations. If this is the problem, your son should be able to put a line monitor on and tell you what type of spikes, surges or sag you have. I would think this is extremely unlikely to be the situation. I worked in a plant with over a dozen 100hp 3 phase motors plus 50 or more 5-10 hp motors which were cycled often, and ran instrumentation that measured picoamps of electricity (a millionth of an amp). It never showed up on the instrumentation.

2 You haven't posted a link to any audio files, so we can examine the wave form. This can eliminate or confirm a lot of things.

3 Is there any way that you are getting static into your system? I can rub my finger on the pickguard of some of my guitars and get horrible static which is transferred right into the pickup and onto any recording. It's random, and I know fellows who went nuts trying to figure out where it came from.
 
Talisman, I'm just trying to respond to some of the other ideas that are being pitched here.

Here are the system specs:
Device name LAPTOP-QGQRROK7
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-1065G7 CPU @ 1.30GHz 1.50 GHz
Installed RAM 32.0 GB (31.7 GB usable)
Device ID 7070C239-E1AD-476E-BAAA-B9093D0314D6
Product ID 00325-96738-56651-AAOEM
System type 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor

Yes, my interface is a PreSonus Audiobox. 2 inputs.

And yes, I HAVE run it off the battery when recording.....and gotten the "tics" on tracks. So it is most definitely NOT the power source, thank you for pointing that out. So, we can now safely dismiss the power source as the cause.

No, it's not static. I guarantee that.

I'll post a link to at least one example. Hopefully I can find a couple so you can hear them. Check back in an hour or so.
 
Audio clip examples of "tics" from a recent vocal track. Tic example #1 Tic example #2

These examples were extracted from a vocal track that was recorded using the HP laptop ON BATTERY, and of course the PreSonus interface and an AKG P220 mic

And yes, the battery was fully charged, for what that's worth.

I thought I still had an example of a tic in a guitar track, but I don't have that file any longer.
 
Looking at the two files, they look like buffer overruns to me. In both cases, a portion of the wave file is missing. If you look at the wave forms, they are consistent until right at the clicks. You can load the two tracks into Audacity and reference the two points and see the wave forms before and after.

Here are two of the clicks.
First track _____________________________Second track
Click in 1.webp
CLick in 2.webp


You can try upping the buffer (go from 128 to 256). You don't need to go all the way to 1024. Also, make sure you have the latest driver. Is your interface the Audiobox 96? If so, the latest driver appears to be Universal Control v4.5.0.102825 .
 
Further investigation indicates that this is apparently a common problem with the Audiobox 96. There were a lot of references in the Presonus forums, but unfortunately that was shut down last week. I did find this.

Audiobox USB96 causing crackling/popping sounds in headphones and monitors when db is clipping/buffering. PLEASE HELP!!! - Questions & Answers | PreSonus

Just bought an Audiobox USB96. It is causing my monitors and headphones to crackle and pop when my db is ... I am using Logic Pro X on a Macbook pro.
answers.presonus.com

A couple of things to check (I don't have a Presonus), Does the Control software set the buffer? If so, does Presonus One have an option to control the buffer? It could be that the software is taking control of the interface and lowering the buffer setting. Look at the ASIO settings in both the DAW and the Control software. I can set my Tascam but can also change the settings in Reaper and it will change the hardware settings of the interface. I typically run 88K with 128 buffer.
 
I have been using an Audiobox USB for over 12 years. It has been pretty reliable. I know if I set the buffer down to below 256 it becomes very unstable. I also realized early, as Jimmy stated, if it isn't plugged into the MB, it is even worse, regardless of the buffer settings.

I am not a big fan of Presonus One, especially the free version. I do know that Reaper and the Audiobox get along very well. I am using the 4.1 (April 2023) version of Universal Controller and it is very stable. Based on my expereince, I would set the buffer in the controller before launching the DAW even if the DAW software gives you access to the buffer.

For the most part, the Audiobox is a capable interface once you get it set.
 
I'll get back to you shortly on this latest information, but Talisman may have cracked the case. The interface. He's posted what looks like solid evidence of interface issues. And let me say this:

1) I have solid evidence of "tics" embedded in a recorded track.

2) But I've also heard "ghost tics" during playback, meaning I absolutely heard it, but when I back up to hear it again.....it's not there.

Would that not indicate that it is within either the recording software or the interface; the latter because the headphone jack is on the back of the interface?

During playback, the only elements involved are: the software, the laptop and the interface.
 
You're still dealing with USB output to the interface, so if there is an issue going in, there could be an issue going back out. Increasing the buffer may help with that as well. It's why people often increase the buffer when mixing. There is no latency penalty when you're just mixing. Latency is only an issue when you are trying to synchronize new tracks with old ones.
 
OK, Talisman, I may or may not be understanding what you're saying, but let me show you the only other controls I commonly use when recording/playback. And what I do was recommended by PreSonus Support.....which I mostly trust. They know their product but I don't think they're always honest about admitting to bugs in the system. Anyway...there is the Universal Control which sets the Block Size. At 128 I'm hearing minimal latency from input signal when recording and not noticing any signal dropout:


thumbnail.webp


And the Audio Set up window mirrors my Universal Control setting:

thumbnail-1.webp


And in another window, I do have the option of dialing-up dropout protection:

thumbnail-2.webp


Regarding the Block Size, I record at 128 and listen to playback at (I believe) 2048 or something like that. RECORDING AT 2048 CREATES HUGE LATENCY, just like a digital delay effect.

At this point in the game, especially with that PreSonus Forum info, I'm suspecting the Audiobox 96 interface. I'm going to go with that.
 
Live recording at 2048 will be a big problem. Try moving the block size up first to 256 (that usually isn't bad, then keep moving up until it stops). When I use my USB, I never go lower than 256.
 
DM60, I never record at 2048. I use that block size only for playback/review. Recording, I notice way too much latency at 256.
 
I could never get mine below 256 without a lot of noise. But I could live with the "slight" latency. To me it was more stereo/chorus effect at 256.
 
With a 256 buffer, you shouldn't be hearing "way too much latency" at 18ms (~9ms in and ~9ms back). That's equivalent to you standing less than 20 ft away. When I was playing on stages my amp was almost always at least 15 ft away, and the drummer was at least that far. We never noticed any timing issues.

One thing you can try (don't know if the system will handle it) is to up your recording frequency to 88 or 96K. That has the effect of halving the latency. I'm going to assume that the computer can handle the data rate. Then it's a matter of how well the Presonus driver is written.

I don't have a clue what the dropout protection setting does, but there's no harm in upping it to high for a test.

As a last resort, you could kick down to 16bit which is a 50% reduction in the amount of data that needs to be transferred. It might help, might not. It's worth a test. It's not my favorite option, but your base noise level will probably still be 30dB better than your ambient noise level.
 
I'm telling you, that's how it is. 128 has just a touch of latency - at least with the system I'm using. I'll check out the other technical suggestions you gave, thank you.
 
Not sure if you might have a VST that is giving you problems. Have you tried recording just straight in? Mic straight in, no reverb or guitar DI. YOu might be having VST issues. Not a fan of Presonus StudioOne or their plugs.
 
You might want to download Reaper just to test it. It won't cost you a cent, and it's a very clean install, and easily uninstalled if you don't like it / doesn't help. Reaper tends to be very easy on computer resources.
 
You read my mind. I had considered testing a free software to see if that was the culprit. I'll do that just as a matter of procedure.
 
Talisman, I went to download Reaper and IMO it doesn't appear to be an "easy" install. There was some gobbledygook about a license key or something. I just didn't feel like jumping through a bunch of hoops. Something about copying text and pasting it somewhere else. Not exactly a "clean" install. I may go back and check it out later. If you can offer any assistance, that would be great.
 
If you have a license key, that is where you would put it. Otherwise you just hit next.
 
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