New Studio Setup - Need advice

[abraxxus]

Allright, Im setting up a new studio. My goals are simple, As good quality recordings at cheapest cost. Actually I have about 3k to put into this (total) and dont want to spend much more than 2k (or so) on the console part of this.

Here are rev A and B of my studio design so far:

A) Tascam DM24 -> Firewire Interface -> Cubase

B) Digi 002 -> Protools

Ive been consulting with a couple ppl, Both pros. One guy tells me that rev A is the best way to go, and the other guy tells me that rev B is the best.

I hear that protools is the standard these days, Everyone has it, or wants it.

My View on REV A:
This is not an indistry standard? Looks like an awsome board/control surface. Decent Mic pre's on it, Lots and lots and lots of routing capabilities, Many more than
REV B. I dont get Software AND a load of plugins when I buy this. I buy all that stuff seperately. Its WAY cooler looking as well =) Its got 16 faders, thats a bonus.
I know with automation and software, I can switch, but, the ability to grab on to any one of 16 at a time is cool.

My View on REV B:
My problem is this: The Digi 002 only has 4 mic inputs with pre's, Good pre's... But still only 4 of them. Is that enough? I dont know. I see 7 mics for my drum kit....
I know i can expand this thing with some more cheap hardware, IE: Berry ADA8000. But then i lack good pre's.
Is this really what people are putting into thier new studios? I know technology, and I know stuff is getting smaller, but sheesh. It dosent look very impressive at all.
When someone comes into my studio, they expect to see gear, and a BIG console, Im afraid that when people that dont know what protools is see this thing, they will thing its just some cheap usb deal I got a WalMart for 29.99 on sale.

Im going to need convinsing to go rev B.

So please, If you have any input on this, let me know. Im still in construction phase of mantis project (my studio) and I want to have orders set up before construction is done, (1 month, or less.. I hope)

Thanks guys!

-abraxxus

 

[LRosario]

I work with Pro Tools daily , so I suppose this is a bias opinion:



Pro Tools is currently industry standard in most studios, so you have the benefit of bringing your sessions to a professional studio for mixing. Compatibility between TDM and LE allow this.

This is to say, should you automate your project at home, it'll be ready to load at the studio, plus gives you powerful editing options. Consider that.


In short, Pro tools offers you expandibility.

 

[manning1]

how many tracks do you want to record at the same time, and how many tracks max per song ?
what sort of computer do you have ?

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

I think that you'll find that 3k is too little to spend for what you want to achieve. I'd recommend maybe looking into a HD recorder and older 24x8 mixer.

Personally, at your budget level, Pro-Tools is not the way to go. There is nothing budget about Pro-Tools.

 

[tubesrawsom]

i second tht plus ull get alot more tapeop skills rather than computing skills
and u can still expand to ur needs

 

[manning1]

sorry but respectfully i disagree with everyone.
i can do 48 tracks on a pc easy. with a more powerfull pc
you can do 80 to 150 tracks.
you just need a good soundcard with good convertors,
and the recording software i use.
you can use any of ntracks, powertracks,magix or multitrackstudio.com
and for a total cost of everything come in under 1k.
as to having pc skills. if you want a job in the future you gotta have em.
its inescapable.

 

[LRosario]

A fatal flaw:

The sample rate and bit depth you choose to work in will decide how many tracks can be used, also. That's the big difference between using your CPU to process plugins vs accelerators on the soundcards and/or in the boards themselves.

Respectivly of course.

I think for the situation, cloneboy has a good concept.

 

[manning1]

todays computers rosario are getting so fast you dont need
accelerator boards.
try my solution some time if you dont believe me on an amd64 pc.
all audio functions are moving into software within the multitrack software.
i have no need for accelerator boards. just a fast pc with a good sound card.
just read around the net forums the stats on tracks/plug ins folks are getting with the new generation of processors like amd 64.
or a regular athlon.

 

[LRosario]

todays computers rosario are getting so fast you dont need
accelerator boards.
try my solution some time if you dont believe me on an amd64 pc.
all audio functions are moving into software within the multitrack software.
i have no need for accelerator boards. just a fast pc with a good sound card.
just read around the net forums the stats on tracks/plug ins folks are getting with the new generation of processors like amd 64.
or a regular athlon.

True, that computers these days are getting better and better. For home/project studio use, of course.

But as a professional, don't rely on anything less than professional grade. Accelerator cards like the HD Accel systems really aren't available to the majority, but I figured I'd introduce abraxxus to the concept of processing audio through something other than the CPU.


Consider this:


A computer's CPU can't process 192 simultaneous tracks with zero lag. Now you throw a 10 grand Accel card into the mix with 192 24-bit audio tracks, now we're talking professional.

I know because I've done it myself, I've been in this biz for 10 years.

However, I forget that the question was related to home/project recording. Budgetwise, your solution is what I would of suggested.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

My core setup right now is an Alesis HD24XR... will cost you about 1400 bucks now and an Allen & Heath Series 8 24*8 mixer... which cost me 960 bucks.

So for less than 2500 bucks I have 24 channels of 24 bit 48khz recording thru an analog mixer. Throw in a few multi-effects boxes and compressors for about 2000 bucks and before you know it you're sounding halfway decent.

Not pro, but this is my homerecording rig.

Personally the PC is too irritating a platform for me to work on much. That lag and latency bugs me.

 

[In Tune Audio]

I have two DM24s. I like them a lot. Your right the routing is awesome. Lots of people say that the learning curve for the board is quite steep. If you already have some previous mixing board experience, it won't be too complex.

I run mine via ADAT into the RME Hamerfall card. Works great. I record into Sonar, and also use the board as the control surface. You can do this in Cubase as well. Really easy to do and works great.


Pro Tools is the standard, but unless your going to be taking the material to other studios, thats not going to do you tonnes of good. (Lots of studios, especially home studios are running Cubase though too.) So if the material is going to be staying in your studio, the first setup will give you more inputs and options.

 

[manning1]

cloneboy - with respect you obviously have not worked with good pc set
ups. people often blame the pc because they are not configured correctly.
a standalone recorder is just a pc in disguise. imho.
i find a lot of people are just too lazy to configure them properly.
there are scads of people around the world doing serious audio work on a pc every day. you just have to know what your doing.
there is a learning curve - even with standalone recorders.

rosario. i disagreee respectfully. try this sometime.
a top of the line pc athlon system running with lynx convertors.
it doesnt get any more pro than that.
a daw can be as "home" or "pro" as one needs .
SOUND QUALITY IS ALL IN THE CONVERTORS.
nothing to do with the pc.
on track counts read up sometime on the track counts being obtained with dual amd opterons.
but why someone needs 192 tracks beats me.
i find anymore than 32 is overproducing a song.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

cloneboy - with respect you obviously have not worked with good pc set
ups. people often blame the pc because they are not configured correctly.
a standalone recorder is just a pc in disguise. imho.
i find a lot of people are just too lazy to configure them properly.
there are scads of people around the world doing serious audio work on a pc every day. you just have to know what your doing.
there is a learning curve - even with standalone recorders.

HD recorders *are* a PC in disguise but they only do one thing--audio. Most use BeOS or stripped down XP OS's. My issue isn't the platform, but performance. I don't want to spend the time configuring a PC that costs the same as a HD recorder I *don't* have to configure.

 

[LRosario]

rosario. i disagreee respectfully. try this sometime.
a top of the line pc athlon system running with lynx convertors.
it doesnt get any more pro than that.
a daw can be as "home" or "pro" as one needs .
SOUND QUALITY IS ALL IN THE CONVERTORS.
nothing to do with the pc.
on track counts read up sometime on the track counts being obtained with dual amd opterons.
but why someone needs 192 tracks beats me.
i find anymore than 32 is overproducing a song.

Don't get me wrong, I know what computers can do these days. Besides, it's too expense to consider an option of accel cards for home use. Home use being the key word.

However, in a multi-million dollar studio, that's something else.


It all depends what he actually wants to spend. My two cents.

 

[manning1]

rosario. i think this issue of needing accelerator cards by the top line studios
doing 200 plus tracks will gradually fade in the future. its a short term solution to a short term problem. i see your point though.
but as pc's move up to ever higher ghz i think you will see the need fade.
also with hard drive technology changing, this will help a lot as well.
i have a feeling by 2008 or 9. the issue of needing accelerator cards by folks doing huge high track counts will disappear. but we will see.
the next few years are going to be mighty interesting.
as i'm a puter tekkie i read a lot of computing journals, and apparently there are various research orgs around the planet i understand trying to
significantly achieve and move up to extreme cpu power levels.
ive a feeling 8ghz will keep even top pro studios happy particularly in dual processing configurations.

 

[Enchilada]

This may be way off topic but im my experience I chose not to go with a computer because Windows XP in unreliable and I hate macs.
Linux however, in my experience is rock solid in stability (hence all the big corporations use it) and although it takes a bit to get used to, interfaces are getting better and better all the time eg. redhat, mandrake or even desktop LX.
If I could find a version of cubase or something similar for linux, there would be reasons for me not to use my PC for recording. In linux you can choose what you want it/don't want it to load way better than windows will ever let you, and the best bit is that Linux is free!
A friend of mine had linux on an old 386 and all it did was start up and run an mp3 program, nothing else. he put it in his car and it was great.

My point here is that if Cubase (or somebody) were to put together a Linux package that would install linux with just the services/drivers etc needed to make recordings and sell it along with their software as the shell that would be wicked. You'd have your Windows OS for the BBS and Linux for recording

 

[manning1]

enchilada. a couple of developments under linux to follow as we move forward in this madness.
ardour linux multitrack , and muse, and audacity, and agnula.org.
check out linux knoppix sometime.

 

[fenix]

but as pc's move up to ever higher ghz i think you will see the need fade.
also with hard drive technology changing, this will help a lot as well.

i couldn't agree more. Anyone remember those old Protools systems when it was a big self contained rack?

 

[fenix]

When someone comes into my studio, they expect to see gear, and a BIG console, Im afraid that when people that dont know what protools is see this thing, they will thing its just some cheap usb deal I got a WalMart for 29.99 on sale.

if all you're worried about is lights, buy a bunch of adats on ebay. People expect quality recordings, not lights. Don't underestimate your audience...well, unless your audience is a bunch of 15 year old emo kids.

If your budget is 2k and you want a protools system I would discourage the 002. Get an 001, use the adat ins with a good 8 channel adat preamp such as the focusrite octapre or presonus digimax. If you get these on ebay that will put you at around $1200. Use the remaining $800 and buy some Waves plug ins.



My setup consists of:
computer
digi001
Presonus digimax
waves plugs

And I get recordings that sound like this:

Use your ears not lights.

 

[Enchilada]

enchilada. a couple of developments under linux to follow as we move forward in this madness.
ardour linux multitrack , and muse, and audacity, and agnula.org.
check out linux knoppix sometime.

How about that I hadn't heard of any linux distros specificaly for recording.
I checked out www.agnula.org and the applications with that distribution look pretty good. TkECA sounds fairly usefull, and seeing that its Debian/RedHat based it should be way more reliable than any windows OS. Might download it and give it a try. Thanks for the hot tip