How do I "learn" my new monitors...

[Serendipity Records]

Hi guys,

Taking a break from politics to ask for help regarding my new studio monitors. They sound great and I know they have great frequency response, etc., but I'm having trouble making mixing decisions on them -- I've only used headphones until now.

So I've been listening to a lot of music (not mine, I guess you might call it my "reference" music?) to get a feel for them, but in the meanwhile, it's slow going. Any tips?

 

[rotku]

I am challenged with the same issue. I mainly track, edit and start the process with headphones then switch to monitors . For me (these tips may not work for everyone), I like to start the balancing process in mono and at a low volume. Monitors are great for exposing resonances that my headphones seem to miss. I only have time to release one or two songs a year, so I always feel like I am re-introducing myself to the process. Once I work out the balance and EQ in mono, then I switch to stereo.

 

[RFR]

Hi guys,

Taking a break from politics to ask for help regarding my new studio monitors. They sound great and I know they have great frequency response, etc., but I'm having trouble making mixing decisions on them -- I've only used headphones until now.

So I've been listening to a lot of music (not mine, I guess you might call it my "reference" music?) to get a feel for them, but in the meanwhile, it's slow going. Any tips?

Yeah, here’s the tip. Embrace the ‘slow going’ keep on listening to your favorite music through them. Burn it into your ears and brain how well recorded music sounds on them.

 

[Serendipity Records]

I'm just trying to figure out how a song translates from my headphones (which I "know" quite well) to my monitors (which I don't know, and which are a type of system I don't have any experience using).

 

[RFR]

I'm just trying to figure out how a song translates from my headphones (which I "know" quite well) to my monitors (which I don't know, and which are a type of system I don't have any experience using).

And how long did it take you to learn your headphones to the point where you ‘know’ them?

So with your new monitors, the same procedure you used to get to know (and presumably trust) your headphones applies.

The only difference is your headphones will sound the same which ever room you’re in.

Monitors in a different room than you’re accustomed to will sound different than what you’re used to despite having ‘learned’ them.

One thing that helps with monitors is mixing quietly. That helps to eliminate some of the effects of the room.

Have fun!

 

[ecc83]

May we know what the monitors are or have I missed it? First off, are they setup properly and does the room have at least minimal acoustic treatment?

"Grannies and eggs" notwithstanding, are the monitors at the optimum distance from lugs (assuming nearfields here) as told in the manual? Are they at the correct height? Tweeters need to be at ear height and on axis. Are they on skeletal stands? Thought not, on a desk? That will cause some colouration. Is the room symmetrical side for side acoustically? If say there is a door or window on the left but a brick wall on the right stereo imaging will never be right.

Speaking of "stereo imaging" this is very different on speakers than on headphones (the latter can never really be right IMHO) and getting this accurate over the frequency range will need attention to the "mirror points" in the room.
Most 'pop' music of course is never true stereo but a collection of pan potted mono sources but still, some attempt should be made to create a believable 'soundscape'?

Last but by no means least, 'calibrate' the monitors.


Dave.

 

[Serendipity Records]

May we know what the monitors are or have I missed it?

Forgot to name them... IK Multimedia iLoud MTM.

First off, are they setup properly and does the room have at least minimal acoustic treatment?

I'm aware of the necessity for all that, and I do hope to improve my setup shortly. Currently, there is very little parallel wall-age in the room, as there are bookcases, instruments, curtains, etc., all around the room; only one real "corner", but the monitors point away from it.

"Grannies and eggs" notwithstanding, are the monitors at the optimum distance from lugs (assuming nearfields here) as told in the manual? Are they at the correct height? Tweeters need to be at ear height and on axis. Are they on skeletal stands? Thought not, on a desk? That will cause some colouration. Is the room symmetrical side for side acoustically? If say there is a door or window on the left but a brick wall on the right stereo imaging will never be right.

Height and axis are correctly applied. They are on speaker supports, so not directly on the desk. Again, the position in the room is not ideal but that should change somewhat soon.

Last but by no means least, 'calibrate' the monitors.

They come with a measurement mic, and calibration has been applied.

 

[TalismanRich]

I'm interested in how much "correction" was needed when you calibrated your speakers. When I did the first run of calibration, I had about an 8-10dB bump around 70Hz, and a couple of smaller ones around 150 and 320 Hz. (I have JBL LSR8s and used REW to measure it).

What did the corrected response look like?

 

[Serendipity Records]

@TalismanRich No idea what the correction curve is, I can estimate by listening but it all happens internally (no computer required, only direct calibration mic connection to the monitors). I was wondering the same thing. REW would work if I had something to connect it to -- not sure how to connect anything else to those mics?

 

[ecc83]

@TalismanRich No idea what the correction curve is, I can estimate by listening but it all happens internally (no computer required, only direct calibration mic connection to the monitors). I was wondering the same thing. REW would work if I had something to connect it to -- not sure how to connect anything else to those mics?

By "calibration" I meant setting the monitors to deliver a known SPL (dBC) at the listening point for a given dBFS level using (preff' band limited) pink noise. This level is often given as around 83dBC but that might be a bit too loud in some circumstances. The important thing is that you always monitor at a known, consistent sound level. This needs a Sound Level Meter but you can get a free app for your phone.

Dave.

 

[rob aylestone]

I’ve never done that Dave. I have no accurate idea but usually I think I sort of automatically get the level right so maybe I do just know the monitors? Oddly I think I’ve also compensated for the obstruction to the bass drivers by the computer screens. Half of the bottom half of the driver fires into the back of the screen. Funny how you quickly change what you listen to to compensate. I also rarely ever have the lufs meter visible. The master output meter tells me what I need to know and I hardly ever check now unless I actually have to. I’m usually very close be ear and with most of my music I have lots of headroom. Spotify and the other platforms seem leave it alone too?

 

[ecc83]

I’ve never done that Dave. I have no accurate idea but usually I think I sort of automatically get the level right so maybe I do just know the monitors? Oddly I think I’ve also compensated for the obstruction to the bass drivers by the computer screens. Half of the bottom half of the driver fires into the back of the screen. Funny how you quickly change what you listen to to compensate. I also rarely ever have the lufs meter visible. The master output meter tells me what I need to know and I hardly ever check now unless I actually have to. I’m usually very close be ear and with most of my music I have lots of headroom. Spotify and the other platforms seem leave it alone too?

Well maybe you should Rob! I have to come clean and tell you all that I am now far too deaf (-22dB at TWO kHz and then FA forever) to mix anything and although I still enjoy music the upper reaches of the violin and the top ocatve of the piano have been lost to me for years! Triangle? What's that?

But, level calibration of monitors is a very common and well respected practice. 'Normal' ears are about at their 'flattest' at around 83dB SPL. Below that we lose bass and a bit of treble and higher than that, bass and top get steadily more prominent. It is also said to be a good thing to listen at a consistent level regardless of genre* and personal taste. The human animal always finds 'louder more exciting'! We get under the weather, tired and 'bunged up' and the temptation is to tweak levels to compensate. A day or so later when refreshed you can say "WTF was I doing Tuesday?!!"

Last but not least, running at about 83dB is safe for 8 hours whereas 'winging it' can result in mission creep and at the end of the day you are at 95dB and leave the job with tinnitus!

You are of course Rob an extremely experienced professional and I am sure can now get your levels correct by long honed instinct but the OP is asking about new monitors and I just suggest he starts with what has become a sensible audio standard MO?

*The exception would be speech, VO work where the SPL of normal speech is around 75dB at about a foot. People have long had a tendency to replay speech several dBs above normal and THEN complain of mud and sibilence!

Dave.

 

[markmann]

For me it was a lot of back and forth listening between my studio monitors and other playback systems until I got a good overall sound. I do use reference tracks and then mix with my monitors. When I get close I listen on other systems and take notes on which frequencies need adjustment and then go back to the monitors. After a while my ears adjusted to know what I am hearing. This might sound primitive but I'm a simple guy

 

[rob aylestone]

The worst thing about mixing is when you get used to a level but then cannot get that. We were at the BBC doing a live band set for Jeremy Vine - a show that doesn't do live stuff as a rule. The engineers had their headphones with the safety volume limiter and because they had to mix live, in the room - not the cubicle, they opened a secret box that had headphones saved from the limiter device install - so they could turn them up - because with drums in the room, the 'official' headphones were just useless. Did the spot and they carefull put them away again.

I actually need to buy some monitors, but I'm putting it off because I know the old ones so well - despite their sound now tired at nearly 40 years old!

 

[Farview]

Since you are happy with the results you get from the headphone mixes, listen to those mixes on the speakers to get an idea of what your successes sound like on your new monitors.

Also, some monitors need to be broken in. They might sound a little harsh at first, but the more you use them, they will balance out.

 

[jamesperrett]

While Dave's advice about using a calibrated level is sensible, for home studio use you probably want to go a bit lower than 83dBSPL. 75dB is often recommended for home use.

One other thing that I've noticed when using quality headphones is that the differences between speakers and headphones are much less. Before I bought my HD600s I was trying to use HD25s which have a noticeable suck out in the mid-range whereas my home monitors are very accurate in the mid-range. This made comparing sounds much more difficult and it only really worked because I knew the headphones and monitors well. The sound from the HD600s is fairly close to the monitor sound so it is much easier to switch between them.

Phil Ward was very complimentary about those iLoud speakers in his SOS review so I suspect that they may be more accurate than your headphones.

 

[RFR]

Phil Ward was very complimentary about those iLoud speakers in his SOS review so I suspect that they may be more accurate than your headphones.

Warren Huart as well.



Here’s an interview with the i loud rep (or maybe owner)

 

[ecc83]

Yes James, I perhaps should have mentioned that 85dB 'ish is rather loud in a domestic situation. To put that level in context, even quite a decent FSTV would start to sound distorted at an average level of 85dBC and if you were trying to read in a room with someone watching Corrie at that level it would hiss you off mightily (ALL soaps hiss ME off!)

However, when I had my Tannoy 5As setup 'properly' (they are now in my L room for pleasure) I did calibrate them for 83dB, then marked the pots on the front then re set for about 75dBC. Thus son could listen at a socially acceptable level but boot it up from time to time for 'serious' checks. I understand that the ABSOLUTE level matters less than knowing what level you are listening at and keeping with it?

Yes also about Phil Ward. He does very in depth reviews of (mostly) top line monitors, always worth a shufti!

Dave.

 

[Serendipity Records]

@jamesperrett I do tend to vary my levels a bit as that allows me to make sure the mix is adequate for all consumer systems. My main mixing 'phones are Sennheisers, HD 400 PRO more specifically. While they are quite good especially once you "learn" them, I went with the iLouds because they have quite linear phase and frequency spectra: