Monitors in an untreated room for an untrained ear

[trillbee]

It is so easy for me to become bewitched by the supposed wonders of the products just above my price range, so this post is an attempt to deliver myself from tempation.
The room I am currentiy recording in is not a studio by any means- it has a hardwood floor and a road outside. Nor, in all likelyhood, am I to be recording in a sound treated room in the forseeable future- I am a bit of a nomad at the moment and studio conditions just don't come with the territory!
I am not aiming for spectacular recordings either, I am pragmatic. I want a decent sound, don't get me wrong- I've got a decent condenser mic, preamp and PC sound card- but I see no shame in a "rough and ready" approach, there's more room for potential to shine through, I say.
I also read an article stating that monitoring is also dependant on what speakers your ears are used to and that some top engineer mixes on radioshack speakers (http://emusician.com/speakers/emusic_good_references/) so, basically, my question is: what should I get?

Having asked this, my feeling is that a 5" driver is as big as I can afford in terms of both money and space. I was torn between the Wharfedale Diamond 8.1s and the M Audio BX5a- they've both got kevlar cones. I've also seen the Fostex PM 0.5s and Phonic P5As. Although I've noticed some 8" monitors at the same sort of prices by Berhinger and Samson I thought these might be a bit crap.

On top of the simple performance aspect there is also the aesthetics- I don't want a pair of best-bang-for-the-buck units for £200 that look like shit- it's not condusive to work or creativity, you know? They have to look good which is why I was a bit more attracted to the M Audios than the Wharfedales.

In terms of bass responce I get the chance to add a Sub woofer later I suppose (which I gather sounds good with the M audio BX5as).

To put things in perspective, I am slowly developing my musical ear- up till recently i've been poaching stereos from various people I've lived with in order to monitor my recordings- so I'm not an audiophile by anymeans. But since I bought a pair of AKG K141 Studio headphones I'm starting to realise what high fideilty means. I bought a pair of Edirol MA-15D speakers that I thought would be good but I find I need something with more umph and depth generally. This might be useless information or might help to inform you guys of the level I'm working at and what I'll likely be impressed by.

I'm keeping in mind those engineers with the radioshack monitors and trying to resist spending too much.
Anyway, thanks in advance for your lovely feedback.
Tony

 

[trillbee]

The thing that puts me off the M Audio BX5as is their reported limited bass, also there are a lack of online reviews. The Alesis M1 Active MK2 and the Samson Resolv 80a both get good reviews on SOS, both over 6" and cheap. I was seriously consdering getting these but.....
What about positioning? I think the best place they could sit is on a small desk, with a wall close behind them. This is the reason I tried to go into so much detail above because I have a feeling that the more ambitious I am with my choice of monitor the more problems I may run into with my ramshackle setup.

 

[gecko zzed]

I'm not going to recommend any particular speakers. Your use of the word 'bewitched' was very appropriate. Don't be bewitched; don't sweat on the choices.

There are relevant facts and irrelevant facts. For example, you are right: to help get accurate, quality and consistent recording it is a fact that you need to have an acoustically sound room and precise monitors. If you are nomadic with no immediate prospect of achieving a stable acoustic environment, then that fact is irrelevant.

So what do you do? Answer: whatever you like! Buy any pair of monitors that you can afford and that suit your aesthetic requirements. Here is a relevant fact: If you do this, you will need to work harder to achieve consistently good results, though this will train your ears as well. Play material that you believe exhibits good recording qualities. Learn to recognise what it sounds like over your system. Aim to recreate this in stuff you record. Play your material on other systems, learn how it sounds on them. By doing this, you can, to some extent, learn the deficiencies of whatever you get and what to do to compensate.

You said: "Although I've noticed some 8" monitors at the same sort of prices by Berhinger and Samson I thought these might be a bit crap." In deciding what to get, don't think. Listen instead. Let your ears be the judge. Get something that gives you a response that you are comfortable in dealing with.

 

[trillbee]

Thanks very much Gekko ZZed, that's to the point alright. Unfortunately i can't risk auditioning monitors as I'm mail ordering. If I could find a review of the M Audio BX5a I would probably go ahead and get them.

If I'm not recording live drums or bass how much will the limited bottom end of smaller cone monitors effect me do you think? Also, how do monitors with flat responses compare to your average stereo speakers when it comes to bass- do they tend, by their nature to be flatter and so have less bass? Also, any advice on the "bigger monitors, bigger problems" thought I had?

 

[gecko zzed]

My guess is that your feelings are telling you to get the m-audios. Given your circumstances, I think you should back your judgement and get them. There is a place in this world for rational, strategic thougt. But there is also a place for whim.

Many years ago I bought a bass guitar on fancy. I didn't try it out, check its action, sound or anything like that. I saw it and immediately wanted it. So I bought it. There are better basses in the world, and there are worse. I didn't (and still don't) care. It suits me just fine. I have learned to live with its quirks.

You can do this with your m-audios. Don't worry about their capacity to deal with bottom end. They will give you something to work from. Have I heard them? No. Does that give me authority to talk about them? Not really . . . but to the extent that they (or any other brand in a comparable price range) are reasonably designed purpose-built monitors, you could expect them to do the job reasonably well.

In a higher end studio, you place monitors to minimise colouration by the room. If you are not in an ideal environment, then use whatever it can provide to advantage. If the monitors are lacking in the bottom end, get them closer to the walls. If you want even more, stick them in corners. This is as valid a concept as EQ-ing; it's mechanical EQ-ing. In recording eras prior to our electronic gimmickry, getting a good vocal tone was a skill the engineers had in mike placement, not electronics: more bass; get up close, less bass; move away.

Stereo speakers are designed to sound pleasant to the listener. Good ones are ok, but on the cheaper ones there is often a lot of top, a lot of bottom, and not much between. Monitors are not designed to sound pleasant (but nor are they designed to sound unpleasant), they are designed to reproduce as accurately as possible what you recorded. There is a different design paradigm involved.

 

[trillbee]

My guess is that your feelings are telling you to get the m-audios...... There is a place in this world for rational, strategic thougt. But there is also a place for whim.

You are a calming influence Mr Gekko. I think you can probably tell that I get a bit worked up over these sorts of decisions. You also say sensible things, thanks. Whatever I get it's going to be a damn site better than anything I own or have ever owned. I don't think I've ever even owned 5" cones before and here I am fretting that they might not be good enough.

Glad you liked your bass, I've got a guitar like that. I bought it second hand for £50 before I knew anything about guitars and its rich sound has been commented on more than once. In terms of flaws, I'm sure it has plenty but it's the guitar I learned (and continue to learn) to play on- I don't know any better so to me it's perfect. A bit schmaltzy perhaps but I'm very attached to it.

I was worried when I saw your second reply gecko zzed that this was being cordoned off into a two-way- but, having read your post, I sort of hope no one else replies. Things are much more affirming this way.

I'll go with my instincts and get the M-Audios- unless anybody tells me otherwise that it is.....

Tony