Mastering engineers, help me~

  • Thread starter Thread starter ksawaia
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Muzzaman said:
Greg I think you have a personal issue with loudness in your own music.

No personal goals? that must suck, saying your songwriting matter and not the loudness just strengthens Glen's point!! doesn't it?
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I agree with Glen's idealism. The song is all that should matter. The reality is the opposite though. If loudness didn't matter, we wouldn't have more than a decade of commercial releases pushing -6RMS. I don't listen to, make, or buy commercial music though, so I don't care. I'm just keeping it real in the face of audio snobbery. If the masses were actually anti-loudness, we wouldn't have loud CD's.

Also why put in your signature buy my CD if your not interested in making money off your music? Give me a break man.
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Read the links. It clearly states that any money I make goes straight to the March of Dimes. I'm not keeping a penny. Nice try though.
 
Greg_L said:
The fact remains though: Bands/labels/studios that are in it for the dollar make loud mixes. That's the supply and demand I'm talking about. The demand is for loud, modern mixes, so it gets supplied.
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There is no demand, it's a false perception by the artists, not by the listeners. They want similar volume, perhaps, if they are so fucking lazy that they can't be bothered to hit the volume control (which isn't true, but we'll roll with that for a second...), but they don't want it smashed flat. One can have similar volume without doing that. The whole loudness/smashed flat is a "the moon is made of green cheese" fallacy thought up by brainless clients who don't know any better.

And even simpler than that, someone in this for the money is stupid to even try DIYing it. Supply and demand has as much relation to this forum as Pee Wee Herman has to Steven Hawking.

G.
 
Greg_L said:
I agree with Glen's idealism. The song is all that should matter. The reality is the opposite though. If loudness didn't matter, we wouldn't have more than a decade of commercial releases pushing -6RMS. I don't listen to, make, or buy commercial music though, so I don't care. I'm just keeping it real in the face of audio snobbery. If the masses were actually anti-loudness, we wouldn't have loud CD's.

Greg,

That's great I commend the charity I really do.

Maybe punk don't sell so well these days anyway man i dunno?

Certainly not my bag never had been. But i really think we all went way off the OP's original question but meh!

Muzza.
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it does. But I think the gerg, if I may try to interpret for him, :D has said all along that he doesn't disagree with the dislike of dynamically crushed music on a personal level.
He's just saying that for todays' commercial music there's no escaping it and I think he's right depending on the music.
I believe that if what you're doing is delicate acoustic singer/songwriter type stuff you probably don't need to smash it.

But for modern radio rock you do and I see articles and grumping about this in all the audio mags and all the recording mags and all sorts of music related mags and websites.
If it wasn't becoming a trait insisted upon by the consumers and thus, the musicians recording for those consumers ... then it wouldn't be such a constant subject of discussion.

I, myself, hate compression and I never use it ...... never! I'm an audiophile with a large vinyl collection and really LOVE a well recorded piec of music and I try to do my own recordings to that standard.
But I make my recordings for me and maybe a few of my musician friends.
I may even post a few here from time to time but even here I'm posting them for fellow musicans/recordists who have some of the same tastes as I do.
If I ever do a commercial rock record (unlikely but possible) I'll flat out do every single thing that may affect its reception even a little bit to try and maximize its' already tiny chances of doing anything.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
There is no demand, it's a false perception by the artists, not by the listeners. They want similar volume, perhaps, if they are so fucking lazy that they can't be bothered to hit the volume control (which isn't true, but we'll roll with that for a second...), but they don't want it smashed flat. One can have similar volume without doing that. The whole loudness/smashed flat is a "the moon is made of green cheese" fallacy thought up by brainless clients who don't know any better.
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It doesn't matter why things are the way they are or how it happened. People "not knowing any better" is the way of the world. You seem to be stuck on this erroneous notion that people can think for themselves. That's clearly not true at all. Youtube vids and MySpace players are the normal listening environment now. People eat what you feed them, and for over a decade the music industry has been feeding them loud mixes because people seem to like it. Now the DIY'ers are following suit. Don't blame me. Blame your own industry.

And even simpler than that, someone in this for the money is stupid to even try DIYing it. Supply and demand has as much relation to this forum ans Pee Wee Herman has to Steven Hawking.

G.
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I agree. The whole DIY thing is overblown, but it's here too, and it's staying. It's waaaaaayy too easy to home-record, and get it global via the internet. But that's where things are right now.
 
Lt. Bob said:
it does. But I think the gerg, if I may try to interpret for him, :D has said all along that he doesn't disagree with the dislike of dynamically crushed music on a personal level.
.
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Exactly. I'm not saying "make everything as loud as possible!" I'm just saying that loudness is here, it's been here, it's staying, and a bunch of old guys whining about it isn't gonna make it go away. It's gonna take a movement from young and hip "artists" to speak out against loudness if there's any hope in reversing the trend.

It's basically gonna take a PSA from Lady Gaga during the superbowl showcasing the differences between loud and dynamic to get people to even consider the differences.
 
They want hot, pumping mixes.
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And those mixes can be made at any lower apparent volume. They can distort the hell out of them, crush them up against a wall and then turn them down to something that audio circuitry is actually designed to pass efficiently. Then let's see how long they keep doing it...
 
Greg_L said:
Exactly. I'm not saying "make everything as loud as possible!" I'm just saying that loudness is here, it's been here, it's staying, and a bunch of old guys whining about it isn't gonna make it go away. It's gonna take a movement from young and hip "artists" to speak out against loudness if there's any hope in reversing the trend.

It's basically gonna take a PSA from Lady Gaga during the superbowl showcasing the differences between loud and dynamic to get people to even consider the differences.
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All it will take is someone popular like a GooGooGaGa to put out one album that's not smashed and has exquisite dynamics, either just to try and be as different as wearing a dress made out of meat, or as a homage to "old school" - as every big artist is want to do once they get bigger than life - and have it sell gold or platinum like every other GooGooGaGa album. The next week, you'll have dynamics be the new fad and crushed garbage be "so last year".

You keep insisting that there's a good reason that everybody smashes. The problem is, there really isn't. It's all been assumption and "conventional wisdom" by people who couldn't buy a clue otherwise. These are the same people who thought it was a good idea to borrow money to buy houses they couldn't afford and that they didn't even need, just because that's what everybody else was doing.

There isn't a single shred of real evidence, pollstering, testing or anything else that ha ever actually demonstrated that crushed dynamics are preferred or sell better for anybody, period.

You keep saying that it's right because it's successful, yet since the latest crushing craze started, sales of music have plummeted through the floor and the Internet has been filled with people complaining that they won't buy albums and singles because they just aren't good enough to bother buying. There's your supply and demand in action.

There's not a single case where an album's or a band's dynamics have gone from normal to smashed and the general consensus response from the public has been positive, yet there are many famous cases where it has been negative.

And somehow, people are not too lazy to use their dumb phones for everything (except actually using them as phones) and push a trillion buttons a day, but somehow they're too lazy to adjust the volume on the music they're listening to.

And that's disregarding what you actually see in real life use, where they're constantly turning up the songs they like, and turning down the ones they don't, even though they are all smashed and at the relatively same volume before they do that anyway.

But then again, everybody is wasting their time explaining this to Gerg, who is an old-timer himself - or at least that's what his on-line persona pretends to be everywhere except in this topic - because he has now proven himself to be self-contradictory all over the place, and that he's the one being the grumpy old man complaining about those who advocate doing exactly what he does himself with his own recordings, simply for the sake of complaining. :rolleyes:

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
But then again, everybody is wasting their time explaining this to Gerg, who is an old-timer himself - or at least that's what his on-line persona pretends to be everywhere except in this topic - because he has now proven himself to be self-contradictory all over the place, and that he's the one being the grumpy old man complaining about those who advocate doing exactly what he does himself with his own recordings, simply for the sake of complaining. :rolleyes:

G.
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Lol. Right. Yup, that's me. :laughings: :rolleyes:

Nevermind that people that hardly ever agree with me, agree with me on this. What I said is simple truth, it offended you, and now you gotta redeem yourself in front of your internet fan-club. Face it dude, times have way passed you by. You're not explaining anything. You're simply scratching and clawing because you're backed into a corner. That's what you do. Your posts get longer, and your points get more convoluted and less significant the harder you are pushed. It's your standard defense. Most people just walk away from your pompous brow-beating and soapbox preaching so you feel you have won. I've got all the time in the world though. Now you've resorted to just making shit up. I get it. You're upset at being wrong at the hands of Greg. It's understandable. I'll leave you alone now and let you get back to being an internet pro superhero to all the n00bs. :D
 
Ah well everyone's an expert in their own head lets all be friends! :)

Muzza.
 
The quicker you all acknowledge Greg is right the quicker we can all move on :D
 
holy shiza.. haha. this turned into one hell of a thread.. hahaha.. i didnt have an internet connection here for a while, but im back online now.. but yeah.. i wasnt having a meltdown..

if anyone here has been on hondatech then they know what im talking about.. lol.. and yes..i do have some mastered stuff on our myspace pages... you can check them out.. the songs posted for Skry are really shitty recordings, simply because we just wanted to get something out, while recording our album..

Fair Weathered Associates has some good stuff.. now that im back online, i will have more to post..


and yo.. mister mastering guy.. lol.. no hard feelings.. i have no issues.. im about as mellow as it gets.. :D
 
I'm late to the game here. This was a fun read though. I would share my opinion but nobody cares.
 
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