Made in China

dainbramage

dainbramage

New member
So I've got this Vox AC30C2x (the one with alnico blues) and I'm extremely happy with it. It rocks! Now, I have never played through a vintage AC30 or any other type of AC30s for that matter.

Vox (like many others) have moved their production to China, and this sometimes bothers me a little. Googling around for this for days, I can only find information on the quality of components and such. I don't really care that much whether or not the quality is different. Some say it is worse, some say it is pretty much the same.

What does bother me is not knowing the conditions of the workers who actually assembled my amp. The Vox factory is supposed to be controlled and staffed by Vox, but does anyone know anything about the conditions? I don't mean to sound like a philantropist or even ethnocentric, but I have heard chinese working conditions at some places are horrible. Some of them basically have no rights.

So I guess my quesion is, can I play my AC30 with a clear conscience?
 
Seriously? People really do care about this stuff? Suppose your amp was assembled by blind chinese children that are chained to tigers that haven't been fed for months. Would that really make you enjoy the amp less?
 
Greg_L said:
Would that really make you enjoy the amp less?
Click to expand...

Are you being ironic? Irony does not translate well in a forum context.

But yes, of course it would make me enjoy the amp less. It would literally mean I had a slave, or at least had rented a slave for a while. Do you have slaves cooking your dinner, Greg? Would you enjoy the meal as much if you did?
 
dainbramage said:
Are you being ironic? Irony does not translate well in a forum context.

But yes, of course it would make me enjoy the amp less. It would literally mean I had a slave, or at least had rented a slave for a while. Do you have slaves cooking your dinner, Greg? Would you enjoy the meal as much if you did?
Click to expand...

The economic rise of China, it's methods of production, it's human rights record and it's continued growth as a manufacturing base are the least of your worries. If you extend your concerns to all aspects of your life you are going to struggle to survive.

I suggest that if you have real concerns about the plight of foreign workers (who incidentally need to work to survive) then you should join Amnesty International. If you have concerns about specific companies or products (although I can not see the fairness in that) then contact that company and express them.

As a matter of interest are you one of those "Sting" types who sing loudly about the plight of the Amazonian rain forest accompanied on, yes you guessed it, a guitar made from Amazonian rain forest?
 
dainbramage said:
So I guess my quesion is, can I play my AC30 with a clear conscience?
Click to expand...

Yes.


If you don't...or you feel you need to return the amp to save the workers....it's not going to happen. Vox isn't going to shut down production.
Look at it this way, you helped put food on the table for some Chinese family who might have been out of work if there was no Vox amps to build.
Anyway....yeah, workers over there don't always have the best conditions, but at this point, that's a done deal...we (consumers) have bought into the Made in China world trade model years ago, and there's no turning back.
I figure, at this point, AFA both workers and the manufacturing....it can only get better them more we buy.
That's not to say that I condone all the manufacturing going to China....and would rather see some of it come back to it's origins....but on the world scale, this is what everyone wanted, a more "balanced" world manufacturing economy, so this is how it will get there....good or bad.
 
dainbramage said:
Are you being ironic? Irony does not translate well in a forum context.

But yes, of course it would make me enjoy the amp less. It would literally mean I had a slave, or at least had rented a slave for a while. Do you have slaves cooking your dinner, Greg? Would you enjoy the meal as much if you did?
Click to expand...

Fuck yeah I would. Having slaves would be fucking awesome.

Your bleeding heart is too bloody. Man up, plug in, and play your guitar through your salve labor amp. Think about it like this - those pissant chinese slave laborers who were probably retarded children built your amp to survive. Building an amp for pennies a day is probably way better than any alternatives they may have. You not playing that amp means that you're denying and throwing away the one tiny thing they have to offer the world. NOT playing that amp is more a slap in their face than playing it is.

Or better yet, sell that amp to someone that doesn't cry during Sarah McLaughlin songs and get yourself a hemp acoustic guitar.
 
Greg_L said:
Fuck yeah I would. Having slaves would be fucking awesome.

Your bleeding heart is too bloody. Man up, plug in, and play your guitar through your salve labor amp. Think about it like this - those pissant chinese slave laborers who were probably retarded children built your amp to survive. Building an amp for pennies a day is probably way better than any alternatives they may have. You not playing that amp means that you're denying and throwing away the one tiny thing they have to offer the world. NOT playing that amp is more a slap in their face than playing it is.

Or better yet, sell that amp to someone that doesn't cry during Sarah McLaughlin songs and get yourself a hemp acoustic guitar.
Click to expand...

:laughings:
 
muttley600 said:
The economic rise of China, it's methods of production, it's human rights record and it's continued growth as a manufacturing base are the least of your worries. If you extend your concerns to all aspects of your life you are going to struggle to survive.

I suggest that if you have real concerns about the plight of foreign workers (who incidentally need to work to survive) then you should join Amnesty International. If you have concerns about specific companies or products (although I can not see the fairness in that) then contact that company and express them.

As a matter of interest are you one of those "Sting" types who sing loudly about the plight of the Amazonian rain forest accompanied on, yes you guessed it, a guitar made from Amazonian rain forest?
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, I didn't really think about this when I bought it.

All I'm saying is it would be good to know under what conditions the products I use were made. And sure, they need jobs to put food on their table, but don't you think conditions would be better if we, the consumers, demanded it before buying? We have much more power than you seem to think. Being concerned about this doesn't mean I.. It just means I'm curious and would like to know.
 
miroslav said:
Yes.


If you don't...or you feel you need to return the amp to save the workers....it's not going to happen. Vox isn't going to shut down production.
Look at it this way, you helped put food on the table for some Chinese family who might have been out of work if there was no Vox amps to build.
Anyway....yeah, workers over there don't always have the best conditions, but at this point, that's a done deal...we (consumers) have bought into the Made in China world trade model years ago, and there's no turning back.
I figure, at this point, AFA both workers and the manufacturing....it can only get better them more we buy.
That's not to say that I condone all the manufacturing going to China....and would rather see some of it come back to it's origins....but on the world scale, this is what everyone wanted, a more "balanced" world manufacturing economy, so this is how it will get there....good or bad.
Click to expand...

Thing is, the people managing these workers would have to adjust the working conditions if noone wanted their products because of it.
 
Greg_L said:
Fuck yeah I would. Having slaves would be fucking awesome.

Your bleeding heart is too bloody. Man up, plug in, and play your guitar through your salve labor amp. Think about it like this - those pissant chinese slave laborers who were probably retarded children built your amp to survive. Building an amp for pennies a day is probably way better than any alternatives they may have. You not playing that amp means that you're denying and throwing away the one tiny thing they have to offer the world. NOT playing that amp is more a slap in their face than playing it is.

Or better yet, sell that amp to someone that doesn't cry during Sarah McLaughlin songs and get yourself a hemp acoustic guitar.
Click to expand...

Lol. Selling the amp wouldn't make any difference. And who the fuck is Sarah McLaughlin?

This whole man up thing looks good and all Greg, I'm sure you're really tough and hardcore :laughings:

But again, don't get me wrong. I'm just curious whether or not I actively engage in slavery. I have a feeling the Vox factory ain't that bad in terms of working conditions, but maybe that's just what I wanna believe.

EDIT: Oh, and I play that amp for hours every day and enjoy the hell out of it. Not that your strange logic about whether or not I use it makes any difference in this context :D The thought just crossed my mind so I was wondering if anyone knew. Well, noone seems to know or even care and that's fine.

Also, of course we all engage in slavery. Some people don't like to hear that and that's fine too. We're all typing on computers or smartphones. But of course, that doesn't make my question irrelevant.
 
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dainbramage said:
Thing is, the people managing these workers would have to adjust the working conditions if noone wanted their products because of it.
Click to expand...

Has anyone ever told you the truth about Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny....? :D ;)

You assume it would simply take a few people not buying a Vox amp to cause some changes.
You do realize you're talking about China, its politcs and its absolute hunger for domination of the world market.

BUt if you really feel that stronglhy about it....

http://www.voxamps.com/contact/

Keep the amp, but contact them and ask about their China operations....and tell them you will only support Vox products if they are doing right by the workers, etc...etc.
 
miroslav said:
we (consumers) have bought into the Made in China world trade model years ago, and there's no turning back.
Click to expand...

Well now, don't take it personally but that is a pretty lame excuse Miro. It is kind of like saying "We do it, so we have to keep doing it."
 
miroslav said:
Keep the amp, but contact them and ask about their China operations....and tell them you will only support Vox products if they are doing right by the workers, etc...etc.
Click to expand...

That is a great idea. Thanks! As for a few people not buying amps would stop the production, of course I don't believe that. I'm just saying.
 
dainbramage said:
Well now, don't take it personally but that is a pretty lame excuse Miro. It is kind of like saying "We do it, so we have to keep doing it."
Click to expand...



Not really....I'm sure you/we can stop buying Chinese any time you/we want to........................................................
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They use one of her songs (I think its "Eyes of an Angel" or something like that) a couple of times a year as background music for stopping cat/dog/pet cruelty and promoting adoption and donations....

......I get a little little tearful.
 
miroslav said:
Not really....i'm sure you/we can stop buying Chinese any time you/we want to........................................................
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Click to expand...

Well, if the conditions are bad, maybe we should. But does it really matter to us? Can we perceive such things or does it all come across as too abstract for our western minds since we're so used to being privileged? Maybe we're just selfish, and by all means, that is totally natural from an evolutionary/biological perspective.

But really, if the conditions turn out to be really bad, which I'm sure they are not, I would definitely not buy another Vox product. If that decision is not "tough" enough, whatever that means, by some peoples standards, I couldn't care less.
 
My point was.....there is SO MUCH stuff being imported form China worldwide, half of which we don't even realize is coming from there, or places like India or Mexico or some third-world country where conditions aren't that great....
...that you're gonna have a LOT more to worry about than just your Vox amp.

Way I see it....the more we buy, the more food they put on their tables.
 
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