Made in China
- Thread starter dainbramage
- Start date
Assembled in the UK. An important distinction.
Right. Assembled in the UK. I don't have the lower level stuff though. I'm pretty sure fish-and-chip stained greasy limey hands assembled/built my amps. One of my heads was made in 1979. How many chinese parts it has in it - I have no idea. The primitive PCB, caps, and resistors may have been made in taiwan or something but I have to assume that back then Marshall did most of it's stuff in-house. My other head is their modern flagship model and I know they're all soldered, wired, and put together in-house, but again, who knows how many small components come from the orient. I don't care. They both sound fantastic to me. My speakers are "Made in England" Celestions. My cabs are made in England. Where they get the wood and where they get it cut is beyond me. I really don't care about any of this, I'm just thinking out loud because I've never really thought too much about my gear like this before. But Marshall has started doing stuff in asia recently. The new DSL100H is made in vietnam or something like that. It's pretty damn affordable for an all-tube, full-power 100w Marshall rock and roll machine, and it sounds great. It's new though, so it's durability hasn't been tested yet. There are hand-wired Super Leads from the 60s still using the same tubes, transformers, caps, all that shit. Purely original, and still kicking. We'll have to see if these chinese made amps last that long. I believe the whole DSL line-up is chinky made now. From the 1 watters to the 100w. And some of the stupid "Slash" stuff maybe? I don't know. I guess if I had the choice I'd rather buy the english made Marshall gear as opposed to the asian stuff, but work conditions have nothing to do with it. Joe Limey the Marshall factory floor worker could be beaten and whipped and starved by the queen herself while fitting tubes into a 2203 re-issue and I wouldn't care one bit.
My Gibson was made in the USA by some white-trash harley riding lotto ticket buying beer swilling cigarette smoker dropout union flunkee and I KNOW that made it cost way, way more than it has to. I just wanted it, and I do love it, but for such and expensive guitar it's not perfect by any means. It's fundamentally perfect, plays and sounds awesome, but there are little minor fit-and-finish issues here and there. I guess that's the hand-made in the USA "human element" right? Funny, my half korean/half USA Hallmark Mosrite clone is absolutely perfect in every way.
muttley600
Banned
Back then I knew a lot of guys who worked there. Your parts were sourced from Italy, Spain, Japan, India, Tawain, Eastern Europe for the plywood and timber, USA for the glue. There were other places that it came from but we didn't make shit here at all even then. I was working for BA at the time and all our stuff came from abroad. We put it all together. Admittedly with a high degree of skill and tolerance. When I was at Rolls Royce things were different. Most of the Steel came from the UK and so did the fittings except the vinyl which came in from some of our colonial brothers. Even if they were British owned and run these days that would not be possible. Our manufacturing base went in the 70's.
It doesn't bother me in the slightest. I make good money doing what I do and most of the timber and parts I use come from abroad. I just put a lot of work and craft into the detail that mass produced can't do.
Yeah, really, is anything 100% made in-house anymore? Is anything even made exclusively from locally sourced parts and pieces? Seems the best you can do is "assembled" in-house. Like with amps....how many amp manufacturers actually wire up their own transformers, or make each resistor? I'd bet none. Everything is sourced from somewhere. Even you luthiers....do any of you actually cut down your own trees for the wood? Lol. How far can this madness go?
muttley600
Banned
As it happens I do source and lumber native trees. We have a lot of decent timbers here but some you just have to get in from abroad. I once tried to build a decent guitar purely from native timbers. The only real problem was the fingerboard. No native timbers are hard and stable enough for a decent fingerboard IMHO.
As I said when I was at Rolls Royce pretty much everything was from the UK. That just wouldn't be possible now or practical.
Texas has lots of pine, oak, and pecan trees. Can a guitar be built out of that stuff? Oak seems like a good solid wood. Pine is soft but plentiful. And pecans are tasty.
I've personally never heard of anyone cutting down their own trees for guitars, but I think it's a cool idea. I've seen guys on the Mosrite forum that totally build their "Mosrites" from scratch, machine their own bridges and trem setups, and even actually cast some of their own metal pieces. One dude made his own pickup covers and mounting rings from melting down scrap PVC plastic and re-molding it into what he wanted. I thought just cutting out and gluing the body and neck together into a straight playable shape was over my head. I can't even imagine going as far as manufacturing my own hardware and winding my own pickups..
muttley600
Banned
Texas has lots of pine, oak, and pecan trees. Can a guitar be built out of that stuff? Oak seems like a good solid wood. Pine is soft but plentiful. And pecans are tasty.
I've personally never heard of anyone cutting down their own trees for guitars, but I think it's a cool idea. I've seen guys on the Mosrite forum that totally build their "Mosrites" from scratch, machine their own bridges and trem setups, and even actually cast some of their own metal pieces. One dude made his own pickup covers and mounting rings from melting down scrap PVC plastic and re-molding it into what he wanted. I thought just cutting out and gluing the body and neck together into a straight playable shape was over my head. I can't even imagine going as far as manufacturing my own hardware and winding my own pickups..
Pine is not really much use but it's fellow, spruce is one of the most essential tone woods. Oak tends not to be used because it open grain, heavy and moves a lot in use with humidity. No idea about pecan...
As to building all the fittings. The only thing I have never built from scratch on a guitar are the tuners or the pots. Oh and the fret wire and strings. Everything else I can do if I need or want to. It aint that hard if you have tools and patience.
It seems that, unless the importer is Apple-like and maintains a very close watch on quality control, Chinese products can vary greatly from one to another. Part of the problem is when the maker buys components from another source and nobody is watching the quality at that end.
I've purchased a few products that were shipped from China directly and I'd estimate 30% have problems. Some get resolved, some don't. Bought a mic that literally was missing internal parts!
The workers rights issue is a mess, and now the great, compassionate corporations are shifting production to Viet Nam and Bangladesh to seek ever-cheaper labor.
muttley600
Banned
Western companies were producing in Vietnam and Bangladesh years before outsourcing to China. If you buy unbranded or knock off cheap ebay stuff direct from any Asian country expect potential problems.
Rod Norman
New member
An interesting dilemma. So, go all around your house and studio and notice if anything else you own is made in China. You will be surprised how many things are. Now, are you ok with that? You can save the world faster with song than you can with purchases. But if it really bothers you, look for an American made only amp. And dump everything else made in China. I thought so. Good Luck,
Rod Norman
Rod Norman
Seafroggys
Well-known member
Made in China is a relatively recent phenomenon. When I was in grade school (the 90s) everything then was made in Taiwan or Korea. Then those economies developed and companies went to China. They'll go somewhere else next.
BroKen_H
Re-member
Add to your list Malaysia, India, etc. There are many countries where people will work for practically nothing to survive. It's beginning in this country as well (USA) Don't be too surprised when it hits the UK (if it hasn't already). The new WalMart "Save Money, Live Better" slogan doesn't necessarily mean everyone, just those who can afford to shop at WalMart. The businesses that they bankrupt and the employees who keep getting poorer and poorer work conditions and less and less benefits are certainly not living better because someone saved $0.32 on their Twinkies. Not to say that WalMart put Hostess out of business, but there have been a few companies...and it wouldn't surprise me to find out they were at least behind Hostess demise (considering the first place you could buy Twinkies after the meltdown was WalMart.)
Seafroggys
Well-known member
Wal-Mart treats their suppliers like shit. I heard many horror stories in college about how Wal-Mart virtually enslaves the companies that develop their products by forcing them to sign exclusivity clauses and forcing them to take more and more loans to meet the production demands of Wal-Mart. That's what pisses me most about Wal-Mart, you hear in the media about how they treat their workers (which, to be fair, isn't as bad as its made out to be, many workers do okay) but how they treat their suppliers is unheard of.
jimmys69
MOODerator
I know a guy, but I wouldn't take my family there....
Does he have one-armed midgets and bearded lady freaks working there? Cuz wal-mart does.
jimmys69
MOODerator
Naw, he pretty worthless in that respect...