lucid or Rosetta

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Teacher said:
not to me personally
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Well it is to me...

I hate putting on the 'pimp hat' when I hang on these boards... I'd rather talk about experiences from an engineering perspective... I'd rather talk about 'techniques' than tools... unless I'm talking about tools as they relate to 'techniques'.
 
Sometimes the tools go beyond the engineer. Here's just one example from my personal experience: When I run a mix to the Ampex 2 track versus going to digital there is definitely a different sound there. The only difference being the tool, one way is a straight A/D off the board, one is through the tape. 9.9/10 after the mix hits the tape the clients love it (and so do I). It goes from very nice, to big and mean. That's just a tool, and although I had the choice of machine, tape type used, setting of the machine, etc, it still isn't me. I think the tools are just as important, when worked correctly, as the engineer and anything else involved. Did the space program get to the moon soley on technique? Nope, lots of smart guys with really great tools at their disposal. It wouldn't have happened without both. BTW, I've never worn a purple hat with a feather in it. ;-o

Nathan Eldred
atlasproaudio.com
 
NathanEldred said:
Sometimes the tools go beyond the engineer. Here's just one example from my personal experience: When I run a mix to the Ampex 2 track versus going to digital there is definitely a different sound there blah, blah, blah... blee, blee blee
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That would be something along the lines of how "tools" relate to "techniques" now wouldn't it... which is a hell of a lot different than talkin shit about crap you ain't experienced but stand to derive income by proselytizing.

However
atlas said:
Mytek is also coming out with their 2 channel A/D converter, and it should be out in about a month. It's the same converter found in their $3K 8 channel unit. To my ears it sounds better than the Rosetta or the Lucid by leaps and bounds.

Nathan Eldred
atlasproaudio.com
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is straight 'gear pimping'. You haven't heard this specific unit [as it's scheduled to come out in about a month], so you haven't tried it next to either the Lucid nor the Apogee... but it could sound better or worse than the unit from which the indivdual channels were extracted... different power supplies, different relative proximity to other crap inside the box, etc.

By adding
NathanEldred said:
I'm not sure, but it's supposed to sell for the same as the 2 ch D/A, which is $995 retail.

Nathan Eldred
atlasproaudio.com
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you really went the 'fullpimp monte'... of course by adding
Fletcher said:
For that matter, Benchmark is about to realease their ADC-1 ... which in theory is supposed to go for $850 just like the DAC-1
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I was making a thinly veiled 'pimp resonse' showing a product of equal reputation/stature for potentially less money...


BTW, I've never worn a purple hat with a feather in it. ;-o

Nathan Eldred
atlasproaudio.com
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Really... the effort of typing your signature file at the end of every post seems to look purple and feathery to me...
 
Fletcher said:
That would be something along the lines of how "tools" relate to "techniques" now wouldn't it... which is a hell of a lot different than talkin shit about crap you ain't experienced but stand to derive income by proselytizing.
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Read below...


By adding you really went the 'fullpimp monte'... of course by adding
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The guy above my post asked, how much it would cost, I gave the retail price, not the street price.


I was making a thinly veiled 'pimp resonse' showing a product of equal reputation/stature for potentially less money...
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So you did something you are criticizing me for?



However is straight 'gear pimping'. You haven't heard this specific unit [as it's scheduled to come out in about a month], so you haven't tried it next to either the Lucid nor the Apogee... but it could sound better or worse than the unit from which the indivdual channels were extracted... different power supplies, different relative proximity to other crap inside the box, etc.
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You're stretching hard about the 2 channel Mytek, the unit is going to be the same as the 8 channel, just like the Crane song HEDD sounds the same as the unit in the Spider. One is a 8 channel box, one is a 2 channel box, proximity of the chip or whatever to something else...it's the same chip, same analog section, same relative amps per channel from the PSU...Mytek doesn't fuck around.



Really... the effort of typing your signature file at the end of every post seems to look purple and feathery to me...
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I don't type it, I use the right mouse button.


Fletcher, there is no need to be belligerent. Whatever is bothering you, go ride your bike, take it out on a punching bag, jog....don't take it out me publicly. The phone is here just like it always has been.

Nathan Eldred
atlasproaudio.com
 
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atlas said:
just like the Crane song HEDD sounds the same as the unit in the Spider. One is a 8 channel box, one is a 2 channel box, proximity of the chip or whatever to something else...it's the same chip, same analog section, same relative amps per channel from the PSU...Mytek doesn't fuck around.

Nathan Eldred
atlasproaudio.com
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OK... but the converters in the HEDD-192 and the Spider don't sound the same... they're both good sounding converters, but they don't sound the same.

I'm glad Mytek doesn't fuck around... neither does Crane Song... the fact of the matter is that the two Crane Song units don't sound "the same", and until proven otherwise, I wouldn't expect the two Mytek units to sound "the same"... so I don't know where that leaves you...
 
Fletcher said:
OK... but the converters in the HEDD-192 and the Spider don't sound the same... they're both good sounding converters, but they don't sound the same.

I'm glad Mytek doesn't fuck around... neither does Crane Song... the fact of the matter is that the two Crane Song units don't sound "the same", and until proven otherwise, I wouldn't expect the two Mytek units to sound "the same"... so I don't know where that leaves you...
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That's funny, my ears hear otherwise. The conversion in the HEDD and the conversion in the Spider sound the same to me. All things being equal, and assuming we are talking about the conversion...no DSP, external preamps into the insert or line in at 44.1 or 48k on both.

And apparently so does Dave Hill, he said the conversion in the Spider and the HEDD are "the same animal".

Nathan Eldred
atlasproaudio.com
 
Even if bypass the limiter circuit in the Spider, part of it is still there, that circuit doesn't exist in the HEDD-192. If you come into the Spider "line in" you're going through the 'line in amplifier'... if you come in through the 'insert point', you're still going through part of the limiter... in other words you have "similar" yet not exact paths on which the audio travels when you go from one to the other.

Another subtly significant difference be is that the board layout is different between Spider and HEDD... this creates different 'interaction between components'... which will result in a different tone [no shit, ask Dave].

To me, the HEDD-192 sounds a bit 'softer' [not in a bad way... just the only words I can grab for a description] than the Spider [that is just 'converter to converter... no processing involved of any kind]... but then again I've actually listened to the shit side by side and asked 'how come this sounds different'... which I reckon you ain't done...

Yes, the two units do indeed use the same converter chips... but most of the converters out there use the same chips. The tones and textures provided by converters are provided in the analog circuitry and the clocking... with major emphasis on the liniarity and headroom of the power supply.

Pimping is pimping is pimping is pimping... call it what you will... but to speak in absolutes about anything you haven't heard, worked with, experienced for yourself is just fuckin' pimping.

FWIW... in April a discussion came up on PSW about Benchmark's impending release of the "ADC-1" [which still ain't out BTW]... following is a 'response' to a query about the unit... this is from April, long before this little dick measuring fest...

On 22 Apr 2003 06:14 fletcher wrote:

The current 1/2 rack A/D converter they have is absolutely killer!! The DAC-1 is absolutely killer... if this thing is a new model that comes in somewhere between the two on price... it could change a whole lot 'standards of the industry'!!
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As you can see, this not "talking in absolutes" isn't a new creation devised for the moment... it's been an ongoing thing since day fucking one... so, what's my point? My point is that it's kinda shitty to talk out of your ass if you don't have the experience... that's the point.

We gonna go another round or two on this? Your call... and frankly you can get a day or two of "the upper hand" as I have to leave in an hour or so to testify as a 'expert witness' in a NJ courtroom...
 
Pimp fights are almost as much fun as cripple fights but with a little less drool ;)
 
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