Lets talk Stereo recording

[Steenamaroo]

Oh, I see. Sorry, misunderstood.

"That's not without it's problems as, then, you lose the natural left/right bleed that the pianist would have heard."
Although I'm just realising this isn't as much of an issue because the microphones picked that up already.

Then yeah, I guess recording at ear position and playing back on headphones should be pretty convincing.

 

[TalismanRich]

Oh, I see. Sorry, misunderstood.

"That's not without it's problems as, then, you lose the natural left/right bleed that the pianist would have heard."
Although I'm just realising this isn't as much of an issue because the microphones picked that up already.

Then yeah, I guess recording at ear position and playing back on headphones should be pretty convincing.

Don't forget to put the mannequin head between the mics to get your true binaural recordings!

 

[Papanate]

Doesn't really make much difference.
There stereo image is still totally different to what you'd hear from speakers.

If the stereo image is what we hear - which I agree with - that gets the point I'm making - is tracking in stereo a thing - or a result of the speakers? I know you can record stereo - but then you hear the playback and that's stereo - but if you record two mono signals to tracks - using the piano as an example - then is it stereo? The Playback would say it is because you are hearing the sound spread across the field between the two speakers - right?

 

[Steenamaroo]

In my view, yes. You're using two separate channels to record different left/right information so yes, stereo.

 

[Papanate]

In my view, yes. You're using two separate channels to record different left/right information so yes, stereo.

So then anything is streeo so long as it has two sources being recorded.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Not really what I said. What's the point of this?
Feels like it's heading towards a pointless gotcha.

I mean, if you capture with some kind of left+right setup, and playback with some kind of left + right setup then it's stereo?

The word pretty much always needs qualification anyway.
A stereo effect, a realistic stereo capture, a stereo mix? They're all different things.
The common point is that left and right are not the same.

 

[LazerBeakShiek]

I mean, if you capture with some kind of left+right setup, and playback with some kind of left + right setup then it's stereo?

Yes, that is correct.

Left and right are not the same. Awesome!

 

[LazerBeakShiek]

Not really what I said.
Feels like it's heading towards a pointless gotcha.

Yeah, I don't seriously believe any home recorder has problems knowing mono vs. stereo.

That concept is too simple. Those are the same people who get hung up on words. Not people who are really doing the things.

 

[rob aylestone]

..... and to muddy the water even more I did a couple of nights on Jeff Wayne's War of the World in an arena - with quadraphonic. All it really did was sweep stuff around the room - most of the stuff was ordinary L/R but then synths, and effects through the rear speakers. Sounded awesome for the show. Must have been 20 years ago - but the audio was stunning. Bass came from legend Herbie Flowers.

 

[LazerBeakShiek]

Mono one program material
Dual Mono is same program material from both sources at a level

Biamplification is dual mono . split so one is highs and the other source lows on a crossover LPFvsHPF.

Stereo is two sources , left has one program material and right a different program material.

Quadraphonics is Stereo Biamplification furthering stereo, "usually to me" split right high/low and left high/low.

At no time does the left program material become the right program material in some fantasized mono recompilation.

 

[rob aylestone]

Quadraphonics to me has always been your stereo definition, Lazer, but with 4 channels. Remember all those quad systems in the 70s/80s that were all different? QS SQ and others, then the systems that sucked out the reverb from L and R and slapped it into the rear channels - then Pink Floyd, War of the Worlds and others touring with 4 PA stacks! Guitar solos zooming around the room with joysticks! Glad that all went!

 

[DM60]

I purchased a few SACD and Dolby Digital remastered SACD/DVDs. They remixed Dark Side, Hotel, Yellow Brick, a few others. IMO, I ma have said this before, but stereo is the best standard for music. The old mixes were just too gimmicky. I rarely play therm. And they were not cheap. They did have higher resolution than CDs, but I couldn't hear it.

 

[LazerBeakShiek]

Quadraphonics to me has always been your stereo definition, Lazer, but with 4 channels. Remember all those quad systems in the 70s/80s that were all different? QS SQ and others, then the systems that sucked out the reverb from L and R and slapped it into the rear channels -

yeah, yeah. Prologic or something. Its in a stereo in the basement.

then Pink Floyd, War of the Worlds and others touring with 4 PA stacks! Guitar solos zooming around the room with joysticks! Glad that all went!

Awe. Sounds like good fun!

 

[RFR]

Went to a Floyd concert at a 200,000 seater.

Yup, pay big bucks for nosebleed seats.

Anyway, they used a surround sound system. Fucking horrible. I’d hear the front after the rear effects.

I guess they’d straightened it up since then ?

 

[rob aylestone]

I found this old video I did. It's hard going, brain wise - but I devised a simulation of 'stereo' - in my video studio with two mics, and a stereo display, then added a close mic simulation and experimented to get the position of the spot mic to align with where the stereo mics said it was. The visual indication of what is going on also allows phase differences to be seen. It's designed to make you think a bit about what exactly you are hearing, and where it is?

 

[Papanate]

I found this old video I did. It's hard going, brain wise - but I devised a simulation of 'stereo' - in my video studio with two mics, and a stereo display, then added a close mic simulation and experimented to get the position of the spot mic to align with where the stereo mics said it was. The visual indication of what is going on also allows phase differences to be seen. It's designed to make you think a bit about what exactly you are hearing, and where it is?

My Brain hurt!

 

[rob aylestone]

Yep - The thing is that adding that one spot mic, so it aligns with where the stereo field says it is, is really hard. Worse, the close mic and the original within the stereo mic need aligning in time - or it makes the stereo field 'different' and less accurate. If one mic is this hard, those people who slap spot mics everywhere - the new classical music recording trend, are really in trouble.

Those stereoscopes show what really is going on, and it's rarely what people think is happening.

 

[R D Smith]

Good demonstration of a complex subject.

 

[Papanate]

Yep - The thing is that adding that one spot mic, so it aligns with where the stereo field says it is, is really hard. Worse, the close mic and the original within the stereo mic need aligning in time - or it makes the stereo field 'different' and less accurate. If one mic is this hard, those people who slap spot mics everywhere - the new classical music recording trend, are really in trouble.

Those stereoscopes show what really is going on, and it's rarely what people think is happening.

While Stereoscopes show what the audio is doing - I don't thiink it can tell one if the mix is right - I had stuff where the stereoscope looks whacky and yet the music sounds great - that seems more a video thing looking at audio?

 

[rob aylestone]

I have to say I was not expecting what actually happened. I started the video with a cheat - what I actually expected from a tone in front of the X/Y pair and what I actually got was like a different language - but after fiddling I started to see patterns. Using my phone, you had just a tone, in a virtually silent room. I expected a straight line and got, well, a mess! That was when I realised the stereoscope can see the refections that are unequal in both mics. As you move the swirls move, but trying to add a 'spot mic' just mess it up.

On facebook today I got told by a guy that he used stereo mics as spot mics! Can you imagine the distant stereo pair being integrated with a closer one? The mess on the stereoscope would be crazy. I wonder what would happen if I set up a stereo pair outside, on a wind free day and repeated the test? Would I get more like straight lines, or still width? It's really interesting to match up what you hear with what you see (or not!)