Keeping Snare Bleed out of Kick Mic

[big country]

hey roy just checked your old threads
and you call me stupid?

 

[Massive Master]

He doesn't have a mic bleed problem, he has a technique problem.

Word.

Up.

(10 characters)

 

[big country]

sory fairyveiw dint no tis is a spelin b con test.
so if you own a studio that means you know alot?
or if you have a crap load of posts and some green lights below your name
I should kiss your ass.
just because you have recorded some garge bands in illonoise.(miss speeld)
(you can right a post on that)means you know what your doin?
that place is famouse for hit atrist aintit .or is that pig farmin?
I bet every sunday morning they play deliberance on channel five.

 

[RAMI]

Poor Big Country...Either he'll never understand or he knows he's wrong and just can't admit it. I think it's the first, the second would take SOME intelligence. I don't think I've never seen anyone put their foor in their moths so often in one thread...rather amusing. So is the lack of literacy.

 

[Reggie]

a person who knows alot about micing drums will tell you to pad every drum mic to stop bleed that way it is also easyer to gate.

And, uh...who might this person be?
You make no sense. A pad will stop bleed just as well as it stops the signal you are trying to record.

 

[Farview]

It can turn the volume down , making the mic less sensitive.

A pad does not make the mic less sensitive, it makes the preamp less sensitive to the mic. The only reason a pad would make a gate work better is because, with the pad, the signal level is down where the gate will work more efficiently. welcome to proper gain staging.

The only thing I can think of that would explain what you describe is if, without the pad, the preamp is clipping and therefore reducing the dynamic range. When you put the pad in, the preamp doesn't clip and the dynamic range is restored.

 

[Farview]

so if you own a studio that means you know alot?

No, it just so happens that I have been making my living with audio for almost 25 years. That's why I know a lot.

or if you have a crap load of posts and some green lights below your name I should kiss your ass.

Nobody asked you to kiss thier ass.

just because you have recorded some garge bands in illonoise.(miss speeld)
(you can right a post on that)means you know what your doin?
that place is famouse for hit atrist aintit .or is that pig farmin?

Even though I'm semi-retired, I still get people of note in here.
Jason Bittner (Shadows Fall)
Charlie Benante (Anthrax)
Rocky George (Biohazard)
Glen Drover (Megadeth, Eidelon, King Diamond)
Dave Elefson (Megadeth)
Doug Wimbish (Living Colour)
Spacey T (Fishbone)
Greg Fulton (Cyclone Temple, Rebels Without Applause)
Dave Shankle (Manowar, DSG)
Bludgeon

In a previous life (a long time ago) I worked with Bon Jovi, Skid Row, Black Sabbath, Savatage, Manowar, Ace Frehley, Vinnie Vincent, etc...

What do you do for a living?

 

[RAMI]

Fairview, you don't need to defend youraelf. This guy is either 11 years old or has the brain of an 11 year old. Don't waste your time. It's obvious to EVERYONE reading this thread who the only idiot in here really is. The funny thing is, he just keeps putting his foot deeper and deeper into his mouth.

It's fucking sad when cousins marry.

 

[ausrock]

Oddly enough, I can see what Big Country is thinking and I think the first part of his logic kinda makes sense, BUT, all of a sudden it hits a brick wall and the logic just doesn't go any further. Others have tried to make this clear here but there seems to be a communication breakdown.

Let's try it this way............:

Kick mic is picking up (too much) snare.........

Apply a pad to kick mic channel.........

This reduces the amount of snare being picked up.........

Obviously, said pad has also reduced the level of the kick going to tape.......

Now, I think what BC is trying to apply here is the theory that the further away the snare is from the mic, the greater effect the pad will have on the snare sound (kinda logarithmic type scale thang) but because of the symbiotic relationship between the kick mic and the kick drum, the pad won't have the same effect on the kick sound. How'm I doin' so far...........? Somehow, I think I just reached the brick wall

Now, I don't profess to know whether there's any validity to this, or if there is, just how much difference it would make and frankly, (gut instinct tells me not to lose sleep over it), I don't give a rat's arse. I've never heard of someone padding every mic on a kit and no-one else in this thread seems to support the practice so surely that says something.

 

[littledog]

I've never heard of someone padding every mic on a kit and no-one else in this thread seems to support the practice so surely that says something.

I pad kit mics all the time. The issue isn't whether pads are useful or not - as has been explained - a pad is useful in controlling gain staging, i.e. how strong the signal is at the preamp input. You can also use pads on the preamps themselves to control the level going to the next stage.

The issue is whether it will help control snare bleed. Here is where the disagreement is - Big Country believes that a pad is not linear and will work like an expander - that it will diminish the volume of fainter signals more than it will the more present stronger signals. Sometimes when one is determined to believe something is true, even direct evidence to the contrary (like trying it out with one's own ears) won't change their mind. Then the whole argument devolves into name calling.

Usually this behavior is seen among the very young, or among those, like Walters, who are simply "playing" the rest of us for their own twisted amusement value.

Either way, past a certain point, further discussion becomes fruitless. If Big Country is convinced that the people on this forum are all a group of unknowledgeable idiots ganging up on him for spite, I suggest he take his question to a forum where he respects the particiapants opinions and see what kind of answers he gets there. Maybe try www.gearslutz.com

 

[ausrock]

Maybe try www.gearslutz.com

Geezus LD, that's a bit harsh isn't it?

 

[littledog]

Geezus LD, that's a bit harsh isn't it?

Well, it's clear he thinks everyone here is against him. I was trying to give him another option. I realize now that I overlooked the obvious advice:

"For the most accurate and knowledgeable source of information, find the forum with the highest number of Australians!"

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Now, I think what BC is trying to apply here is the theory that the further away the snare is from the mic, the greater effect the pad will have on the snare sound (kinda logarithmic type scale thang) but because of the symbiotic relationship between the kick mic and the kick drum, the pad won't have the same effect on the kick sound. How'm I doin' so far...........?

I'm sorry, but that's waaay over-thinking it.

A pad is just a volume attenuator, nothing else. It knows nothing about distance, and in fact knows nothing at all. It just takes whatever the current volume is and cuts it by a set amount regardless of what the original volume - or it's source - is.

I think BC might have been thinking that if an unwanted sound is "quiet enough", that the pad might knock it down to almost inaudible, or at least tolerable, levels; and that while it knocks down the wanted source by the same amount, it was loud enough to begin with to where the pad doesn't adversely take too much away.

The problem with that thought is that the symptoms here were that the drummer was hitting the snare too hard and the kick too weak. The dynamic range between the kick and the snare bleed isn't signifigant enough (or perhaps even reversed) for the pad to have that kind of beneficial effect.

And really, if one wanted to attack the problem the way that BC is describing, it would be far more effective in more situations to use a dynamic range expander instead of a static pad to knock down the unwanted lower-level bleed. This would allow one to minimize the bleed without affecting the wanted source.

G.

 

[RAMI]

Big Country believes that a pad is not linear and will work like an expander -

I think you're giving him too much credit. He probably can't even pronounce those words, let alone make a theory out of them. No, unfortunately, he's just stupid and wrong.

 

[Farview]

Now, I think what BC is trying to apply here is the theory that the further away the snare is from the mic, the greater effect the pad will have on the snare sound (kinda logarithmic type scale thang) but because of the symbiotic relationship between the kick mic and the kick drum, the pad won't have the same effect on the kick sound. How'm I doin' so far...........? Somehow, I think I just reached the brick wall

You reached the brick wall because a pad doesn't work like that. It does the same thing as turning down the gain control on a mic preamp, or a fader on a channel strip. It doesn't change the nature of how a mic picks up sound. It just attenuates level....the level of everything going through it..... equally. It's not magic, it's an attenuator.

He's working off the dillusion that the gain control on a mic preamp changes the sensitivity of the mic that is connected to it. It doesn't. It changes the sensitivity of the preamp. The mic picks up whatever it picks up. That doesn't change...ever.

 

[ausrock]

Gawd LD.............good on ya and I'll refrain from using a local colloquialism suggesting you have sexual relations with a canine

Far,

I'm personally well aware of what a pad does, my point, as LD so eloquently put it, was that BC is applying logarithmic rather than linear principles to this. Obviously, my intended sarcasm was way to subtle.

 

[jmorris]

I'm thinking if you use a mic pad depends on the preamp and the mic. I thought about this and dont really use pads on my kits. Thats not to say never. It depends on my preamps. After futher thought, my #6 and 7 preamps (filtek,out of telefinkin console I think?) are usually used on overheads, very sensitive, they dont have a pad but I have had to reduce the input to minimal at times.Here a pad would come in handy because there seems to be just so much signal coming in its hard to control. Another case I use a pair of Langevin AM16 preamps all the time. They are not real sensitive. If I use my '69 U87 Neumann and try to record accoustic guitar...not a good match. Dont seem to get enough signal. So thats my example of my pad use. Maybe BC isnt used to using pads as a result of trype of gear? I dont know, just a thought.

 

[slidey]

It's fucking sad when cousins marry.

knew a guy once..................................so in bred





























































he was his own father

 

[big country]

I think I know who the twelve year olds are.maybe not all but thier thier.all I know is what ive tried and tested, I think some of you guys have not even tested what Im talking about and then to ridacule me . hey I admit some of you guys have been doing this stuff longer than me.Im a carpenter I learn every day
and you know what some times I am able to teach people twenty years my senoir.Im curently attending school to be a recording engineer.I started playing
piano at age ten,guitar at age 12, and drums at 15 . I started recordind on a four track by age 16. and been doing it since.I ve made drums ,guitars ,basses
and all kinds of percusion stuff.I even built my home with my own two hands.
I dont plan on leaveing this board because thier are a couple of people who have judged me for my spelling .and maybe a little lack of understanding on thier
part.

 

[Farview]

.Im curently attending school to be a recording engineer..

Go ask your teacher about this, and come back and tell us what he says.