Keeping Snare Bleed out of Kick Mic

may i

all you guys are right about your theories....with the exception of BC.....and i am not trying to act more knowledgable (if i spelled that right) but i really havent seen anyone suggest to this guy about mic placement....but in any case even with gates, compression, or even if you go with BCs' whack way of doing it you are going to get mic bleed. it's like that and thats the way it is
 
can somebody possibly test to see if it makes a difference.
in my test it did make a difference and thats why I stand stubernley by what I say.Its not a hudge difference but I have seen a difference.its deffinitly not going to tottaly gate any thing.
before I had gates that is how I would separate my kick as much as I could.
since I got a sub kick I dont use that mic any more.
 
when I have wired up an extra speakermic I always use inside my regular setup be it a D112, Beta 52, vintage D20 or 421. Subkick by itself wont get that great kick sound but I can see it really chopping out snare bleed as I think( dont quote me) it is( the sub kick) more for the 100hz area?
 
most of the time I do only use the sub kick . not all the time .
when just using the sub kick the attack is not that great .
but the over heads can pick that up.
to tell you the truth Ive tryed many different ways to mic my kick.
I kinda like the kick with limited attack maybe its just for the time being.
It sounds real deep and with a little reverb it sounds pretty cool.
thier is no right way of doing art. thats what makes it fun
I sometimes come home and just try different angels mics and what ever.
I have a skylight in my studio (you know how sum skylights have that convex
thing going like a dish) I have a mic that sits in my skylight pointing toward the sky to use as a secondary OH adds a little something.I even have a mic stand that folds down from my ceiling. I into inventing stuff.
 
big country said:
most of the time I do only use the sub kick . not all the time .
when just using the sub kick the attack is not that great .
but the over heads can pick that up.
to tell you the truth Ive tryed many different ways to mic my kick.
I kinda like the kick with limited attack maybe its just for the time being.
It sounds real deep and with a little reverb it sounds pretty cool.
thier is no right way of doing art. thats what makes it fun
I sometimes come home and just try different angels mics and what ever.
I have a skylight in my studio (you know how sum skylights have that convex
thing going like a dish) I have a mic that sits in my skylight pointing toward the sky to use as a secondary OH adds a little something.I even have a mic stand that folds down from my ceiling. I into inventing stuff.
Click to expand...
What big country are you from?
 
what is this forum about?
I kinda thought it was about learning and shareing Ideas, we all share the same passion.I dont understand some of you guys
my guess is monkey see monkey do.
this is a social behavior that gets presidents like bush elected?
some people cant think out of the box so their easly influenced by others.
think about people who lead a bunch of retards to kill them selves with nike shoes to ride a frikin comet or some shit like that.
you ever wonder how you can get people to think like that. trippy shit.
you ever hear of wounded chickin syndrom.
a bunch of birds with brains the size of a pea ,pick on a wounded chickin.
the chickins just do it out of instinked
(im sorry for any misspelled words, I spent most of my high school years stoned )



Im from the good ol USA. california ,Orange County (silly)
 
take a cardioid mic; thier range is limited imagine cuting the power on that mic by a small percentage.
it really hears things close and not far.(not so well any ways)
this is why people who preform live use them so they dont get the sound of the drums or what ever is in the back ground.
so by using a pad your cutting some of the power in a sense .
the cardioid with a pad would cut bolth the sound close and far
but most of us know that cardioids dont work to good far
this is really true even more so with a pad.
 
The part that you don't seem to be getting is that a pad turns the volume (sensitivity) down equally. If you put a 10db pad on a mic, you have to turn the preamp up 10db to get the same output. If you have a mix with too much bleed (too much snare in the kick mic, for example) and you put a 10db pad on the kick track, you are lowering the volume of both the kick and the bleed by 10db. In order to hear the kick in the mix, you will have to turn that channel up by 10db, which will turn up the bleed as well.
 
big country said:
what is this forum about?
I kinda thought it was about learning and shareing Ideas, we all share the same passion.I dont understand some of you guys
my guess is monkey see monkey do.
Click to expand...
You seem to be under the impression that just because you think it- it's true. You also seem to think that all thoughts are equally valid, they aren't. You are clearly confusing your impression of you pads work with reality. Just because you think they work in a certain manner, does not change the reality of how they do work.

I understand that this might be hard to swallow for someone who admittedly spent most of his high school years avoiding reality and altering his perception of what was really going on.
 
hey fairy, if you stoped being intamate with your mics youd probly know how to use them.(stop puting them where the sun dont shine)
 
I thank jesus ,
if thier werent dumb people
I would not be smart
if thier werent short people
I would not be tall
jesus does a great job mowing my lawn!
 
big country said:
I thank jesus ,
if thier werent dumb people
I would not be smart
if thier werent short people
I would not be tall
jesus does a great job mowing my lawn!
Click to expand...
If there wasn't anyone with bad grammer,
i would not appear older than ten years old. :D
 
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big country said:
take a cardioid mic; thier range is limited imagine cuting the power on that mic by a small percentage.
it really hears things close and not far.(not so well any ways)
this is why people who preform live use them so they dont get the sound of the drums or what ever is in the back ground.
so by using a pad your cutting some of the power in a sense .
the cardioid with a pad would cut bolth the sound close and far
but most of us know that cardioids dont work to good far
this is really true even more so with a pad.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, BC, but I think you have the wrong image in your head of how these things all actually work and fit together. I'm sorry to say that the above statement is wrong in several different ways. I'm not just piling on on a gang tackle, nor meaning to pick on you here; I just want to try and correct some misunderstanding you apparenly have about how these things actually work. This isn't a matter of opinion where all opinions are of equal value. This is a case where you are basing your opinions on facts that you are plain and simply misunderstanding or getting wrong. The answer to 2+2 is not a matter of Internet opinion, and neither is the answer to how microphones, mic pads and sounds actually operate.

There is little to no difference in "range" between a typical cardioid and a typical onmidirectional. In fact, there actually is no "range" per se. Any microphone could pick up a sound from 5 miles away if that sound were loud enough. I think you're probably referring to "sensitivity"; but even there the difference between cardioid and omni is not a difference in general sensitivity but a difference in sensitivity based upon the direction from the sound source. Cardioids are not used to reject sounds "in the background", they are used to reject sounds that are well off-axis forn the direction in which the mic is pointing (e.g. to the sides or rear.)

What's the difference? If you have a sound that's "in the background" but still relatively on-axis, the cardioid is still going to pick it up just as well as the omni will. In fact, depending on the cardioid design and it's sensitivity pattern, in the general direction to which the mic is pointing the cardioids are often even more sensitive (in the incorrect verbage, they have even more "range") than comaprable onmis are.

Next, the fact is that if this guy is using a standard issue kick mic like a beta52, d112, or e602. it already is a cardioid or a supercardioid mic. Yet they're still getting the snare bleed because the drummer is playing the snare oo loudly relative to the way he is playing the kick. By the time the signal reaches the pad, the cardioid has already done it's job, but that job wasn't good enough because the snare bleed is still too strong relative to the kick. Padding it at that point isn't going to have any more or better effect than if it were an omni mic feeding it that same signal.

And like Farview and I and others have said many times already - but you just haven't gotten a handle on it yet I guess - the pad is going to reduce *everything*. It's not going to change the fact that the snare is too loud relative to the kick; a 20dB pad is going to knock them both down by an equal 20dB. But the relative difference in volume between the two is not going to change; the snare is *still* going to be too loud relative to the kick. the only difference is now the kick will not be loud enough to work with.

Keep going to class, BC. You have learned some stuff so far, but only enough to make your current knowledge level dangerous. You still have quite a bit of learning to do. In due time, you'll look back on this thread and wonder, "Man was I off course there or what?", and you'll smile and be glad to know that you got past it and turned that danger level of knowledge into an expert level. :)

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
I'm sorry, BC, but I think you have the wrong image in your head of how these things all actually work and fit together. I'm sorry to say that the above statement is wrong in several different ways. I'm not just piling on on a gang tackle, nor meaning to pick on you here; I just want to try and correct some misunderstanding you apparenly have about how these things actually work. This isn't a matter of opinion where all opinions are of equal value. This is a case where you are basing your opinions on facts that you are plain and simply misunderstanding or getting wrong. The answer to 2+2 is not a matter of Internet opinion, and neither is the answer to how microphones, mic pads and sounds actually operate.

There is little to no difference in "range" between a typical cardioid and a typical onmidirectional. In fact, there actually is no "range" per se. Any microphone could pick up a sound from 5 miles away if that sound were loud enough. I think you're probably referring to "sensitivity"; but even there the difference between cardioid and omni is not a difference in general sensitivity but a difference in sensitivity based upon the direction from the sound source. Cardioids are not used to reject sounds "in the background", they are used to reject sounds that are well off-axis forn the direction in which the mic is pointing (e.g. to the sides or rear.)

What's the difference? If you have a sound that's "in the background" but still relatively on-axis, the cardioid is still going to pick it up just as well as the omni will. In fact, depending on the cardioid design and it's sensitivity pattern, in the general direction to which the mic is pointing the cardioids are often even more sensitive (in the incorrect verbage, they have even more "range") than comaprable onmis are.

Next, the fact is that if this guy is using a standard issue kick mic like a beta52, d112, or e602. it already is a cardioid or a supercardioid mic. Yet they're still getting the snare bleed because the drummer is playing the snare oo loudly relative to the way he is playing the kick. By the time the signal reaches the pad, the cardioid has already done it's job, but that job wasn't good enough because the snare bleed is still too strong relative to the kick. Padding it at that point isn't going to have any more or better effect than if it were an omni mic feeding it that same signal.

And like Farview and I and others have said many times already - but you just haven't gotten a handle on it yet I guess - the pad is going to reduce *everything*. It's not going to change the fact that the snare is too loud relative to the kick; a 20dB pad is going to knock them both down by an equal 20dB. But the relative difference in volume between the two is not going to change; the snare is *still* going to be too loud relative to the kick. the only difference is now the kick will not be loud enough to work with.

Keep going to class, BC. You have learned some stuff so far, but only enough to make your current knowledge level dangerous. You still have quite a bit of learning to do. In due time, you'll look back on this thread and wonder, "Man was I off course there or what?", and you'll smile and be glad to know that you got past it and turned that danger level of knowledge into an expert level. :)

G.
Click to expand...

that man needs a medal.......................well said
 
with a pad I am able to move the mic closer to the source and let me tell you
that when you use a pad it reduces the signal.but when the mic is closer to the source you get alot more gain you can make up for the lost signal by moveing the mic closer to the sound source their for reducing sounds in you proximity there is deffinitly less bleed. if you dumb fucks cant understand that get fucking clue . im tierd of this shit.
I could give a rats ass if you do this stuff every day and arent able to think .
my four year old nease understsnds what a pad is capable doing.
no a pad is not a gate .and hey man great job copying out of a book.
 
big country said:
with a pad I am able to move the mic closer to the source and let me tell you
that when you use a pad it reduces the signal.but when the mic is closer to the source you get alot more gain you can make up for the lost signal by moveing the mic closer to the sound source their for reducing sounds in you proximity there is deffinitly less bleed. if you dumb fucks cant understand that get fucking clue . im tierd of this shit.
I could give a rats ass if you do this stuff every day and arent able to think .
my four year old nease understsnds what a pad is capable doing.
no a pad is not a gate .and hey man great job copying out of a book.
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No shit! You move the mic closer to the source and you get less bleed? Who knew? (that's sarcasm) You were talking like the pad was doing something, you didn't say anything about moving the mic closer to the intended source. Man, learn how to explain yourself. You had everyone else in the thread convinced that you thought that pads had some sort of expander qualities.

This technique wouldn't work in this case because the mic is already an inch or two away from the batter head of the kick. You really couldn't get it any closer.
 
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