How to sound old-school and yet good?

[zacanger]

That guy who said that bridges in songs suck because they get in the way of guitar solos, youre such a fucking idiot i cant even stand it.

The function of a bridge or middle 8 in a song is crucial to its success. Some songs dont have them but the ones that do (done correctly) are alot more appealing to the listener than just some crappy guitar solo.

Fuck guitar solos and guitar in general. If youre still doing everything with a guitar oriented mind youre more fucked than you know. Youve lost the race before it has begun if you conceptualize music through guitar.

The GUITAR is like a cool friend that stays too long and now you just kinda want him to leave. Its overused, overplayed, cliched, and just dead. But everyone just keeps on strumming and strumming and strumming like idiots.

...It was a joke. Wow, you're a loser.

 

[Jillchaw]

progress

If music progresses than why is it the same 12 notes? You are referring to cultural changes. Which is basically a lifestyle fashion show. Music is about beats and frequencies. And yes anyone from those times could have "shredded" on the guitar if theyd had one. "Shredding" is nothing abloutely NOTHING to be proud of. Its lame. Its a parlor trick. Its like juggling. Anyone who can repeat a motion over and over can learn it. A monkee can be taught physical tricks dude.

Songwriting is a mental feat, not a physical one.

Genius beats physical ability any day.

 

[Jillchaw]

shredding

I go down to guitar center about once a fucking year for something and every time i go its the same idiot musicians. Everyone just sitting and "shredding". Dudes playing the most complex drumming patterns possible. It seems like just about anyone with alot of time on their hands gets good at showing off their playing ability. But no one can write for shit. Its all bullshit and i dont want to be a part of any of that. Thats like football team mentality in the world of music.

Everyone is dumb. So they compensate by showing off. I cant believe you fuckers prefer being dumb and blind. Man when i hear a concept that cant really be argued i listen up.

Shooting the messenger is such an obvious sign of stupidity. Check any psychology book.

 

[IronFlippy]

And no matter what generation you are from or what race or sex a tritone sounds dissonant and a major chord sounds at rest.

Who has the balls to deny this?

I do. Triads used to be a dissonance, less than a thousand years ago.

I'd really like to hear your music and what you listen to, since you seem to think everyone is dumb, or pretentious.

 

[Jillchaw]

triads

"TRIADS USED TO BE DISSONANCE"

hahahahahahahahhhahah

oh fuck

Dude are you saying that frequencies change over time? Because thats what intervals are. Frequencies. Intervals are frequency ratios.

So as time goes along the frequencies change? Intervals change over time?

Come on thats just plain stupid.

Music is just frequency ratios all the way from complex to simple. When the brain hears a simple ratio, then a complex one, it longs for the ratio to become simpler. Its natural and every single human brain is hardwired biologically the same. There are no exceptions and if there are it is very very rare and probably a birth defect. And i doubt even then.

If you say that music isnt just the phenomenon of the human brains reaction to want the frequency ratios to become simpler then you are saying there is no such thing as a scale. Thats what scales are. From one note to the next the brain is wanting the distance between the notes to get smaller. ITs what gives music its entire drive and usefullness. How can you go against what extensive biological studies that are undisputed in the world of science have proven?

 

[Jillchaw]

what i listen to

Not that what i personally prefer would change anything regarding how music works at the binary and biological level, but ill tell you for the fuck of it.

I like anything that has passion. I reject harshly any egotistical music or music that i feel is just a couple of guys trying to pass off garbage to make themselves seem like geniuses. Id like to say i hate all metal. But some metal is genius. And id like to say i hate electronica, but some electronica is genius as well. But its rare in those genres.

I even like polka and some of the Carpenters better tunes. Ill go anywhere from screaming obnoxious noise to the softest grandma music. As long as i sense both passion and true creativity. And since ive studied music for so long i can tell almost instantly if the songwriter knows what they are doing or not. Just the same as a plumber would know if the guy who built the pipes knew his shit or not. Its not a matter of opinion or taste. Its right there in the songs structure. The arrangement. Hasnt anyone ever got into "parallel construction"? I doubt it. Cause when i hear amateur songwriting its usually just ripped off facetious elements like similar strumming patterns or similar sounding chords to the writers favorite bands. The facetious elements alone cant hold up against songs that really work internally and that goes for any genre, any taste.

I shit on musicians who are just in it for social reasons. Bandwagon bullshit.

 

[Flux]

The tritone is a restless interval, classed as a dissonance in common practice music; less dissonant than the second or seventh, but given the name diabolus in musica ("the Devil in music") by some from the early music era to the baroque period, likely because of its unwanted occurrence as F against B when two voices were singing a fifth apart.

 

[Jillchaw]

rap even

Hey i can even dig some rap or hip hop, and im whiter than white.

Cause its all in the music notation.

Rap and electronica are "ostinato" based music. Meaning the underlying structural phrases are divided into smaller repeating phrases that come and go with some variation at different parts of the songs. Do i care for rap lyrics and all these black dudes acting like they are invincible when we all know that human beings are very easily hurt or killed? Hell no, but i try to listen to what is going on rhythmically because i dont want to insult something just because it doesnt seem like "me". See thats the difference between me and you punk asses. I dont need to be the protagonist in my entertainment. I can listen to and appreciate tunes from anyones point of view as long as its creative and not just thrown together crap. But i see you and i hear you adn you only like the shit that makes your own little world seem more real. But its not your fault. Its natures programming to desire safety in numbers. Its leftover from the caveman days. But i say fuck natures programming. Think for yourself. Have a standard that means something. You all think youre rebels but man you stink like every rebel that ever came along before you and probably after you.

 

[zacanger]

If music progresses than why is it the same 12 notes? You are referring to cultural changes. Which is basically a lifestyle fashion show. Music is about beats and frequencies. And yes anyone from those times could have "shredded" on the guitar if theyd had one. "Shredding" is nothing abloutely NOTHING to be proud of. Its lame. Its a parlor trick. Its like juggling. Anyone who can repeat a motion over and over can learn it. A monkee can be taught physical tricks dude.

Songwriting is a mental feat, not a physical one.

Genius beats physical ability any day.

I was using shredding and programming as examples, not saying I like them. Yes, I'm referring to cultural changes, you ape! What do you think music and art are, if not a reflection of the cultures that produce them?

 

[zacanger]

Hey i can even dig some rap or hip hop, and im whiter than white.

Cause its all in the music notation.

Rap and electronica are "ostinato" based music. Meaning the underlying structural phrases are divided into smaller repeating phrases that come and go with some variation at different parts of the songs. Do i care for rap lyrics and all these black dudes acting like they are invincible when we all know that human beings are very easily hurt or killed? Hell no, but i try to listen to what is going on rhythmically because i dont want to insult something just because it doesnt seem like "me". See thats the difference between me and you punk asses. I dont need to be the protagonist in my entertainment. I can listen to and appreciate tunes from anyones point of view as long as its creative and not just thrown together crap. But i see you and i hear you adn you only like the shit that makes your own little world seem more real. But its not your fault. Its natures programming to desire safety in numbers. Its leftover from the caveman days. But i say fuck natures programming. Think for yourself. Have a standard that means something. You all think youre rebels but man you stink like every rebel that ever came along before you and probably after you.

...seems to me, you're the one saying all modern music except rap and genius-metal sucks. No one is talking about listening only to music that makes one's own world seem more real. Of course, you only listen to 60s rock, so what would you know about music anyway? None of us think we're rebels. We like the music we listen to, and we appreciate even the music we don't listen to. You, on the other hand, like the music you listen to and think anything you don't listen to doesn't matter, and shouldn't ever be mentioned in your Divine Presence.

 

[montage]

Listen to "Louie Louie" over and over; eventually it'll come to you.

 

[mrsanger]

...I was completely distracted by the fact that Jillchaw up there said "young males" when referring to musicians. Since OBVIOUSLY girls aren't talented enough, or smart enough.

Anyway...there's this thing. It's called Republicans. They don't like to change their minds.
There's this other thing. It's called your brain, Jillchaw. You are a music Republican.

I'm not saying my music is better, or it's even all that great. In the end, I'm just a girl with a guitar who sings her heart out trying to get her point across. I think that you need to start using music to get your point across instead of ranting in recording forums that, honestly, have no effect on the music business, except for helping us all. Do you think you'll change something by ranting about how the Dresden Dolls suck? Sure, Amanda Palmer is a whiny bitch who can barely play piano, but she is RAW and she is PASSIONATE, and she is not afraid to scream and kick and yell until everyone sees her world and what it's like. Music is expression. You try to prove to me that THAT isn't expression.

Oh, and stop saying that they knew what music was about then, you weren't even born yet. I mean, I wasn't born yet either, but seriously. Come on. Even Led Zeppelin was a trend at one time. Why do you think everyone knows them now?

Love,
Hayley Jane

 

[wilko]

There is only one rule in music. If you like it then it is good.

And age is irrelevent. Recently I played in a band and the bassist was 20 and the lead guitarist was 21 - half my age. They were bloody good and I had great fun in that band and I learned alot.

You can learn something from anyone who picks up an instrument - as a musician you never stop learning.

Music doesn't have to be complex for it to be good. Pete Townshend is a great songwriter but not a technical guitar player. I like Robert Fripp too(albeit in small doses).

Music should, above all else, be fun. And nobody, old or young has the monopoly on that one..

 

[zacanger]

There is only one rule in music. If you like it then it is good.

And age is irrelevent. Recently I played in a band and the bassist was 20 and the lead guitarist was 21 - half my age. They were bloody good and I had great fun in that band and I learned alot.

You can learn something from anyone who picks up an instrument - as a musician you never stop learning.

Music doesn't have to be complex for it to be good. Pete Townshend is a great songwriter but not a technical guitar player. I like Robert Fripp too(albeit in small doses).

Music should, above all else, be fun. And nobody, old or young has the monopoly on that one..

YEAH! !

 

[mrT]

Do you know what most modern music is? Its one of those paintings that is just a bunch of smeared paints. "POST MODERNISM". People call it "art" but really its just someones expression. And it will only mean something to those who WANT it to mean something. Any moron can throw postmodern art together. A baby even. But i think its funny psychologically that the people who always seem to dig postmodern garbage are the ones who stand to benefit from that particular image or lifestyle. OF COURSE you dig the arcade fire. Youre the EXACT age group that is into that shit. I bet you even dress and look like all the other dudes your age. Is any of this starting to make sense to you? So get over yourself and open your eyes to more than just the tiny world surrounding your 25 year old cliched lifestyle and taste. Say one thing or do one thing untypical of your age, race, and sex and ill be impressed. But i doubt you could.

Dude... I'm with you about the Kinks. I love them. There songwriting is phenominal. BUT you have no clue about art. I'm pretty sure you're talking about Abstract Expressionism... or Part of what was MODERNISM. Post-Modernism came after and is something different entirely. More of a critique of modernism.

and damn... calm down. You sound all cracked out.

 

[travelin travis]

and damn... calm down. You sound all cracked out.

........agreed.........mr. musical hitler on crack.

 

[TexRoadkill]

"TRIADS USED TO BE DISSONANCE"

hahahahahahahahhhahah

oh fuck

Dude are you saying that frequencies change over time? Because thats what intervals are. Frequencies. Intervals are frequency ratios.

So as time goes along the frequencies change? Intervals change over time?

Come on thats just plain stupid.

Study a bit before you talk about things you know nothing about. The tuning used in western music is not based on a natural pattern. It is a somewhat arbitrary collection of frequency points that people decided sounded good in relation to each other. It evolved into what we now call 12 tone Equal Temperment because prior to that an orchestra had to tune differently for every key.

There are many more types of scales that divide up the frequencies in many more steps and create intervals that most westerners cringe at but people who are accustomed to the scale or open minded enough can enjoy it.

The frequencies haven't changed but what people have decided is acceptable has definatley changed over the years. In the middle ages a third wasn't just disonant it was evil and playing it meant you were a heretic. The funny thing is you seem to think that anybody who doesn't follow the strict standards set for western music over the last 200 years is just a moron but you're a creative genius just like those guys in the middle ages.

 

[easlern]

I'd guess there are over a billion Asians who don't agree with your definition of "music," Jilly, but are making perfectly good music. I'd say cultural influences shape opinion on art, as plenty of other posters have noted. Now since my cultural influences are upper-middle-class poseur hipsters, I'm going to obviously like indie groups. And I'd guess since your dad kept you chained in the basement listening to his B-side Kinks records, you're obviously going to prefer it. "Check any psychology textbook." Relax, man- we're just talking about pop. It ain't Bach and it ain't no cure for cancer.

 

[IronFlippy]

There is only one rule in music. If you like it then it is good.

And age is irrelevent. Recently I played in a band and the bassist was 20 and the lead guitarist was 21 - half my age. They were bloody good and I had great fun in that band and I learned alot.

You can learn something from anyone who picks up an instrument - as a musician you never stop learning.

Music doesn't have to be complex for it to be good. Pete Townshend is a great songwriter but not a technical guitar player. I like Robert Fripp too(albeit in small doses).

Music should, above all else, be fun. And nobody, old or young has the monopoly on that one..

Bingo!

Study a bit before you talk about things you know nothing about. The tuning used in western music is not based on a natural pattern. It is a somewhat arbitrary collection of frequency points that people decided sounded good in relation to each other. It evolved into what we now call 12 tone Equal Temperment because prior to that an orchestra had to tune differently for every key.

There are many more types of scales that divide up the frequencies in many more steps and create intervals that most westerners cringe at but people who are accustomed to the scale or open minded enough can enjoy it.

The frequencies haven't changed but what people have decided is acceptable has definatley changed over the years. In the middle ages a third wasn't just disonant it was evil and playing it meant you were a heretic. The funny thing is you seem to think that anybody who doesn't follow the strict standards set for western music over the last 200 years is just a moron but you're a creative genius just like those guys in the middle ages.

Precisely. Consonance and dissonance are about as concrete and solid as Jello. "Check any music history book."

While we're at it....

If music progresses than why is it the same 12 notes?

Well, it isn't, as described by TexRoadkill. These 12 notes you're talking about have only existed for about 200 years. The original frequencies used in western music (I'm not even going to get into eastern music) were calculated based on what sounded good. Instruments were tuned to themselves, not to any specific frequency as they are now. If you were to try and transpose some of the songs from the middle ages up or down and play them on the instruments from that era, it would sound terrible and "out of tune". As music progressed (and yes, it does progress) someone figured out how to tune intruments in equal temperment, which evenly divided the octave into 12 tones. Then people like Bach wrote a bunch of music in different keys (his fugues, primarily) to test out the new equal temperment system, which would sound good no matter what key you're in.



You're just making an ass out of yourself, you're not impressing anyone, and you're doing a terrible job of trying to prove us wrong. You can be as arrogant as you want, but if you decide you want to start asking questions here, you won't be getting much of a response from us.

EDIT: GreenDank, sorry for getting off topic .

 

[GreenDank]

...

wow, I thought I'd pop back to see what little tidbits of knowledge had emerged, and an episode of Gray's Anatomy broke out! Nonetheless, I think I found what I was looking for.