zacanger
musician and audodidact
Way to neg rep me, Jillchaw. Feel big?
andyhix
:dank:
I read this thread form the beginning, and thought "Wow, that Jillchaw provided some really useful info...I wonder why he/she has so many red chicklets...." It's amazing how 4 pages of crack-rants can change your opinion of a person. Too bad really...
zacanger
musician and audodidact
andyhix said:
Yep.
You're rep power is 666, you devil, you.
IronFlippy
Dedicated To My Member
I think we lost jillchaw.....
I miss him =(
I miss him =(
zacanger
musician and audodidact
Yep. .
S
SBax
New member
mrsanger said:
Wait a minute, Led Zep was never really a trend. Bad example. Punk rock was a trend. The Jewel, Tori, Alanis thing was a trend for a while.
J
Jillchaw
New member
none
You know, when you try to say something that doesnt usually get said, that people dont like, they tend to rage. I think its pretty lame how you have taken the things ive said and turned them just enough to make it disprovable. If you read through the things i said i never said anything about women being inferior. As a matter of fact i said i liked some Carpenters tunes and i also said music from other perspectives than your own (mine being male) are just as worthwhile.
And as far as tuning and scales. You guys really dont understand what is being said. I know you mean well, and you have your little book out and everything so proud of yourselves, but you are missing all points.
NOTES ARE FREQUENCIES. They dont change over time. Their affect on the human brain doesnt change over time. It doesnt matter who you are. This is not my opinion. Its been proven by biological studies that arent challenged in the world of science.
INTERVALS ARE FREQUENCY RATIOS. And the human mind, any age race or anything, always wants the ratios to be simpler. It is biolgically hardwired and no one is different.
People are trying to be smart claiming that other tonal systems exist. NO SHIT. And in that tonal system you will find the same organizing principles. Complex ratios will always want to resolve to simpler ones. The reason that non western music may sound harsh to western ears is more cultural than biological. Thats a fact. Because the first thing that the biologists made sure of in their studies is that they had people from all ages, races, and cultures to examine. Thats pretty standard scientific precedure. And the results were 100 percent. HUMAN BRAINS ARE UNIVERSAL IN THEIR PERCEPTION OF INTERVALS.
If you claim that this is a lie than try putting your baby to sleep with the Jaws theme.
And everyone also keeps accusing me of thinking that i am something better than something else. I am not better than anyone. Not smarter not more talented. All i am is a person who doesnt like believing bullshit. And society is one big stew of bullshit. Id like to step out of it as much as i can. Im not perfect, and just arguing here alone proves that i slip up and act like a dumb human sometimes. But i was right about everything i said.
All your points are things you WANT to believe. Mine are concrete facts rooted in biological and psychological research. Not theories.
I think that most of you are probably not bad people, and since you are very much into music than at least its better than being into religion or gangs or something. But you have no idea how to think for yourselves and you most likely churn out droves of useless shitty songs that only your own friends will enjoy because they positively associate you with their own lives. I mean seriously, i doubt any of you know how parallel contruction works, or the harmonic scale, or metric concordance in melody writing, etc. Which is no sin. I dont hold it against you that you dont really know whats up. But dont act like youre a musician around me because i will barf. Owning a guitar and liking music alot doesnt make you a musician. Im sorry. But dont be sad, just try harder. Be more honest with yourself.
Let me ask you this if you dont want to believe me and you think im an idiot.
How did the Beatles write so many loveable songs?
Do you think that they are just magical people? Nope. Do you think that it was just the "old days" back when people were dumb so it was easier to write a song people would like? Nope. It was technical know how of how songs universally effect people at every level. They knew how to turn one little idea into a full song where each part hands itself off to the next in more ways than one. How? Backwards writing using technique learned from YEARS of performing already proven songs. How do i know this is how they did it? Study the tunes themselves. Stuffed as full as possible with parallel construction and all the techniques mentioned above.
But there is no convincing you. You have already assumed what you think is the truth and have found comfort in your identity. And to believe that being an artist takes more than just screaming about your life into a mic with purple hair bothers you. Because then youd lose who you thought you were a little. If you see it your way, you are special and talented. But if you see it my way you are just a person who buys music equipment and cds. So i understand why you might not like me. But i stand by biology and i know that good art is not just random expression. Random expression is just random expression. And random expression grows on trees. I think a little more highly of art so im sorry to be a bummer.
You know, when you try to say something that doesnt usually get said, that people dont like, they tend to rage. I think its pretty lame how you have taken the things ive said and turned them just enough to make it disprovable. If you read through the things i said i never said anything about women being inferior. As a matter of fact i said i liked some Carpenters tunes and i also said music from other perspectives than your own (mine being male) are just as worthwhile.
And as far as tuning and scales. You guys really dont understand what is being said. I know you mean well, and you have your little book out and everything so proud of yourselves, but you are missing all points.
NOTES ARE FREQUENCIES. They dont change over time. Their affect on the human brain doesnt change over time. It doesnt matter who you are. This is not my opinion. Its been proven by biological studies that arent challenged in the world of science.
INTERVALS ARE FREQUENCY RATIOS. And the human mind, any age race or anything, always wants the ratios to be simpler. It is biolgically hardwired and no one is different.
People are trying to be smart claiming that other tonal systems exist. NO SHIT. And in that tonal system you will find the same organizing principles. Complex ratios will always want to resolve to simpler ones. The reason that non western music may sound harsh to western ears is more cultural than biological. Thats a fact. Because the first thing that the biologists made sure of in their studies is that they had people from all ages, races, and cultures to examine. Thats pretty standard scientific precedure. And the results were 100 percent. HUMAN BRAINS ARE UNIVERSAL IN THEIR PERCEPTION OF INTERVALS.
If you claim that this is a lie than try putting your baby to sleep with the Jaws theme.
And everyone also keeps accusing me of thinking that i am something better than something else. I am not better than anyone. Not smarter not more talented. All i am is a person who doesnt like believing bullshit. And society is one big stew of bullshit. Id like to step out of it as much as i can. Im not perfect, and just arguing here alone proves that i slip up and act like a dumb human sometimes. But i was right about everything i said.
All your points are things you WANT to believe. Mine are concrete facts rooted in biological and psychological research. Not theories.
I think that most of you are probably not bad people, and since you are very much into music than at least its better than being into religion or gangs or something. But you have no idea how to think for yourselves and you most likely churn out droves of useless shitty songs that only your own friends will enjoy because they positively associate you with their own lives. I mean seriously, i doubt any of you know how parallel contruction works, or the harmonic scale, or metric concordance in melody writing, etc. Which is no sin. I dont hold it against you that you dont really know whats up. But dont act like youre a musician around me because i will barf. Owning a guitar and liking music alot doesnt make you a musician. Im sorry. But dont be sad, just try harder. Be more honest with yourself.
Let me ask you this if you dont want to believe me and you think im an idiot.
How did the Beatles write so many loveable songs?
Do you think that they are just magical people? Nope. Do you think that it was just the "old days" back when people were dumb so it was easier to write a song people would like? Nope. It was technical know how of how songs universally effect people at every level. They knew how to turn one little idea into a full song where each part hands itself off to the next in more ways than one. How? Backwards writing using technique learned from YEARS of performing already proven songs. How do i know this is how they did it? Study the tunes themselves. Stuffed as full as possible with parallel construction and all the techniques mentioned above.
But there is no convincing you. You have already assumed what you think is the truth and have found comfort in your identity. And to believe that being an artist takes more than just screaming about your life into a mic with purple hair bothers you. Because then youd lose who you thought you were a little. If you see it your way, you are special and talented. But if you see it my way you are just a person who buys music equipment and cds. So i understand why you might not like me. But i stand by biology and i know that good art is not just random expression. Random expression is just random expression. And random expression grows on trees. I think a little more highly of art so im sorry to be a bummer.
J
Jillchaw
New member
oh yeah
And to the guy that said he lost respect for me after he read all the things i wrote... seriously, if i was in your band, id be the last guy to ever be out of ideas on how to make songs more appealing structurally and id be the last guy to fuck up or ignore subtle nuance in performance. So feel how you want about me but you wont find anyone as quick to understand the elements of music as i do very easily. You would probably turn to me time and time again to fix problems in your arrangements and help you breathe life into your songs. Whether you liked me or not. Because thats just how it goes. There are those that can and those that cant. None of this arguing matters cause when it came down to it id be improving your own songs better than you could. I could make your personal style sound even more like your personal style than you could. So please insult me some more.
And to the guy that said he lost respect for me after he read all the things i wrote... seriously, if i was in your band, id be the last guy to ever be out of ideas on how to make songs more appealing structurally and id be the last guy to fuck up or ignore subtle nuance in performance. So feel how you want about me but you wont find anyone as quick to understand the elements of music as i do very easily. You would probably turn to me time and time again to fix problems in your arrangements and help you breathe life into your songs. Whether you liked me or not. Because thats just how it goes. There are those that can and those that cant. None of this arguing matters cause when it came down to it id be improving your own songs better than you could. I could make your personal style sound even more like your personal style than you could. So please insult me some more.
noisewreck
New member
I suggest you listen to some of the modern electronic experimentalists then. The stuff that they're doing now will be watered down to pop 10 years from now, kinda like how BT's stutter edits are being used by Limp Bizkit now (rather limply I might add).Jillchaw said:
Then there are bands like System of a Down... unfortunately their last couple of CDs were compressed and limited to shit... the substance is there, but sounds tiring and brittle. I'd love to hear the originals that came out of the recording studio.
Just cuz you're too lazy to keep up with the times, doesn't mean your nostalgia is valid
Personally, I can't stand the 60's sound, The Beatles included.
J
Jillchaw
New member
oh yeaher
This is how you can tell if someone sucks at music.
When you play a song it is in a key. No one will argue that. What is the key? Its the tonal center of your song, the "home". It is the hero of your song like the protagonist in a story. If the song never strays far from the home it will be boring. But if it goes in random places the listener cant derive much emotion from the story other than confusion, disharmony. It would be like watching a movie where nothing makes sense and charcters dont return and no plot forms. The trick of the artistic songwriter is to tell an interesting story with frequencies. Dont let the listener forget what home is for too long. But at the same time dont make it formless and random. It is a tightrope act.
And dont think that you are immune to this. Because everyones brain is the same. Your grandmas brain percieves tonality and interval ratios exactly the same as yours. Her cultural associations and her taste may differ but those factors are irrelevant to the musician at the compositional level. Culture doesnt make music what it is at the compositional level.
You might be all proud of yourself thinking that if most music sucks than how come you like it. Well thats cultural. You like how the music makes you feel on the level of your own identity. You want to be a metal head. So you listen to metal. Its YOUR music. It speaks for YOU. Its really no different than religion arguments. These are not my opinions of culture. All this is proven biological facts that you can read in psychology books. People in society like the things that they associate with their lives and their identities. Its nothing to be ashamed of because its natural. But dont confuse it with compositional technique. And dont think im ragging on just metal either because all music good or bad has millions of fuckers clinging to the fringes for lifestyle and identity reasons. There are exceptions here and there, but you know that usually people dress like how they act and listen to the music that reflects who they are. I dont cage them in how they look, etc. THEY do.
You may say that music is meant to break the rules. That there are NO RULES. And i can see why you might like the concept of no rules as opposed to rules. But in music there are rules whether you like them or not. The first beat alone sets in motion a rule. The first note alone sets in motion a rule. Your brain is the one guilty of the rule making. It has human universals like short term memory capacity and perception of interval ratios. And everyones are the same because brains dont evolve or change over time. Not at a rate that is worth noting anyway.
The way you break the rules and make them work IS your writing talent. Thats why Ray Davies is a genius. Thats why John Lennon is a genius. Because they made the rules work for them. They set up the song to decieve the listener at points and to give the listener exactly what they want at others. And that takes fucking skill. It is not random. What you are doing is playing anything and calling it art. But you arent breaking rules. You are unaware of anything you are doing. Its just random. And you are totally allowed to do that if you want. But when someone who knows whats up comes along be ready to be a joke and be seen for the hack you really are.
Im not saying go to music school. Im not saying study the harmonic scale. I dont care what you do. Just know that when you insult geniuses other people will humiliate you, even if no one else notices or cares that you are being humiliated.
This is how you can tell if someone sucks at music.
When you play a song it is in a key. No one will argue that. What is the key? Its the tonal center of your song, the "home". It is the hero of your song like the protagonist in a story. If the song never strays far from the home it will be boring. But if it goes in random places the listener cant derive much emotion from the story other than confusion, disharmony. It would be like watching a movie where nothing makes sense and charcters dont return and no plot forms. The trick of the artistic songwriter is to tell an interesting story with frequencies. Dont let the listener forget what home is for too long. But at the same time dont make it formless and random. It is a tightrope act.
And dont think that you are immune to this. Because everyones brain is the same. Your grandmas brain percieves tonality and interval ratios exactly the same as yours. Her cultural associations and her taste may differ but those factors are irrelevant to the musician at the compositional level. Culture doesnt make music what it is at the compositional level.
You might be all proud of yourself thinking that if most music sucks than how come you like it. Well thats cultural. You like how the music makes you feel on the level of your own identity. You want to be a metal head. So you listen to metal. Its YOUR music. It speaks for YOU. Its really no different than religion arguments. These are not my opinions of culture. All this is proven biological facts that you can read in psychology books. People in society like the things that they associate with their lives and their identities. Its nothing to be ashamed of because its natural. But dont confuse it with compositional technique. And dont think im ragging on just metal either because all music good or bad has millions of fuckers clinging to the fringes for lifestyle and identity reasons. There are exceptions here and there, but you know that usually people dress like how they act and listen to the music that reflects who they are. I dont cage them in how they look, etc. THEY do.
You may say that music is meant to break the rules. That there are NO RULES. And i can see why you might like the concept of no rules as opposed to rules. But in music there are rules whether you like them or not. The first beat alone sets in motion a rule. The first note alone sets in motion a rule. Your brain is the one guilty of the rule making. It has human universals like short term memory capacity and perception of interval ratios. And everyones are the same because brains dont evolve or change over time. Not at a rate that is worth noting anyway.
The way you break the rules and make them work IS your writing talent. Thats why Ray Davies is a genius. Thats why John Lennon is a genius. Because they made the rules work for them. They set up the song to decieve the listener at points and to give the listener exactly what they want at others. And that takes fucking skill. It is not random. What you are doing is playing anything and calling it art. But you arent breaking rules. You are unaware of anything you are doing. Its just random. And you are totally allowed to do that if you want. But when someone who knows whats up comes along be ready to be a joke and be seen for the hack you really are.
Im not saying go to music school. Im not saying study the harmonic scale. I dont care what you do. Just know that when you insult geniuses other people will humiliate you, even if no one else notices or cares that you are being humiliated.
C
chessrock
Banned
Say, is this still the Recording Techniques forum?
Sorry, didn't mean to intrude guys (and gals).
Carry on.
.
Sorry, didn't mean to intrude guys (and gals).
Carry on.
.
J
Jillchaw
New member
stutter edits?
Im too lazy to keep up with the times?
See how it works? When i say something you dont agree with you instantly start to look for things about me that can be mocked. But i actually like modern music alot in some cases. I use the Beatles as an example because they wrote a pissload of genius tunes.
But even if i didnt keep up with the time.. there is no reason to keep up with times. How in the fuck could you actually think that newer is better? Because they are building off of previous work? Nope. They arent building off anything hardly. Everyone just makes it louder and weirder and thats something any idiot could do. Thats why electronica and computer music is so popular. Anyone can make it and sound like they are up with the times. A fucking computer can generate a techno song thats at least as good as man made ones.
Its funny how 4 people can study and perform their whole lives and have fantastic voices that sing at full volume in perfect pitch and write tunes that change the world and after a few years some asshole kid will say it sucks because he doesnt feel cool listening to it in his car.
The Beatles had talent beyond talent. Amazing voices, geniuses of composition for their age (any age) and they sound huge on old records. How could you listen to tunes like "Thank You Girl" and "Shes Got the Devil in Her Heart" at full volume and not be fucking tossing your techno cds in the garbage? Those fuckers are actually making the sounds you are hearing. Its no accident or computer patch.
Associations ruin everything thats how
Im too lazy to keep up with the times?
See how it works? When i say something you dont agree with you instantly start to look for things about me that can be mocked. But i actually like modern music alot in some cases. I use the Beatles as an example because they wrote a pissload of genius tunes.
But even if i didnt keep up with the time.. there is no reason to keep up with times. How in the fuck could you actually think that newer is better? Because they are building off of previous work? Nope. They arent building off anything hardly. Everyone just makes it louder and weirder and thats something any idiot could do. Thats why electronica and computer music is so popular. Anyone can make it and sound like they are up with the times. A fucking computer can generate a techno song thats at least as good as man made ones.
Its funny how 4 people can study and perform their whole lives and have fantastic voices that sing at full volume in perfect pitch and write tunes that change the world and after a few years some asshole kid will say it sucks because he doesnt feel cool listening to it in his car.
The Beatles had talent beyond talent. Amazing voices, geniuses of composition for their age (any age) and they sound huge on old records. How could you listen to tunes like "Thank You Girl" and "Shes Got the Devil in Her Heart" at full volume and not be fucking tossing your techno cds in the garbage? Those fuckers are actually making the sounds you are hearing. Its no accident or computer patch.
Associations ruin everything thats how
J
Jillchaw
New member
Ps
Nostalgia? What nostalgia? Im 26
When i hear music i dont care when it came from or what style. If it takes skill than i like it as it is. I have liked and envied the compositional skills of particular composers in all genres of music. And quite a few outside of my own particular taste.
Anyone that hears 60s music as a "sound" is fucked. Anyone who hears 60s music as "60s music" is also fucked. Because if you only see it as something from the past that is dated than you are closing your eyes to its genius. Volume doesnt take skill. Attitude doesnt take skill. "Sound destroying" doesnt take skill. Why respect those things then? Because if you take those elements out of most modern bands there is nothing left.
Limp Bizkit? Are you serious?
Hey what does the big stupid kid on the playground do when he doesnt get the attention he wants from the other children? He acts aggressive and tries to be a badass cause thats all he knows how to do.
There you go thats an explanation of why "modern music" sounds the way it does
Nostalgia? What nostalgia? Im 26
When i hear music i dont care when it came from or what style. If it takes skill than i like it as it is. I have liked and envied the compositional skills of particular composers in all genres of music. And quite a few outside of my own particular taste.
Anyone that hears 60s music as a "sound" is fucked. Anyone who hears 60s music as "60s music" is also fucked. Because if you only see it as something from the past that is dated than you are closing your eyes to its genius. Volume doesnt take skill. Attitude doesnt take skill. "Sound destroying" doesnt take skill. Why respect those things then? Because if you take those elements out of most modern bands there is nothing left.
Limp Bizkit? Are you serious?
Hey what does the big stupid kid on the playground do when he doesnt get the attention he wants from the other children? He acts aggressive and tries to be a badass cause thats all he knows how to do.
There you go thats an explanation of why "modern music" sounds the way it does
C
chessrock
Banned
There's a dance going on next door.
And you're all invited.
We're going to be dancing about architecture in to the wee hours. You guys should all come join us. You've all been demonstrating a skill that that should translate well.
.
And you're all invited.
We're going to be dancing about architecture in to the wee hours. You guys should all come join us. You've all been demonstrating a skill that that should translate well.
.
J
Jillchaw
New member
Pser
I dont know about the people you see around, but around me the guys who are the least talented and the least intelligent are the ones who have the most "attitude" based self image. Any of the the guys i know who are talented and smart are the ones without sideways baseball hat and without a "system" in their car.
Because men with nothing compensate. Men with something dont need to. And thats as obvious as day and night. Thats why heavy ass attitude music sells. Cause everyones scared theyre a nobody, and no one wants to risk being uncool.
Man, saying this on a forum read by mostly younger musicians is really asking for it. But its true.
I dont know about the people you see around, but around me the guys who are the least talented and the least intelligent are the ones who have the most "attitude" based self image. Any of the the guys i know who are talented and smart are the ones without sideways baseball hat and without a "system" in their car.
Because men with nothing compensate. Men with something dont need to. And thats as obvious as day and night. Thats why heavy ass attitude music sells. Cause everyones scared theyre a nobody, and no one wants to risk being uncool.
Man, saying this on a forum read by mostly younger musicians is really asking for it. But its true.
J
Jillchaw
New member
thats it
This is getting beyond retarded. So i am done.
I will never be able to say anything that will change your minds about how humans percieve music in regard to their personal self image. Its too much for you like staring into the sun. This is why people fly planes into buildings. Because no one wants to ask if maybe they are wrong about why they feel the way they feel. People like those Taliban fuckers will never stop and wonder if they only see things they way they do because it serves their purpose. Just like you will go to your grave rejecting the things that are brilliant because they dont serve your purpose.
My only purpose is to stay aware of the little walls the mind builds around us to keep us slaving like little worker ants. To keep us competing for status and females so that our genes can continue. I want to be apart from all that bullshit because i believe that the beauty of art should exist outside the biological roles life demands we play. You say i am a "Hitler", im actually trying to free you. But if you have your heart set on being joe blow metalhead and joe blow techno head than fine. Ride your identity crisis into some buildings and see if the world takes your personal cause any more seriously.
This is getting beyond retarded. So i am done.
I will never be able to say anything that will change your minds about how humans percieve music in regard to their personal self image. Its too much for you like staring into the sun. This is why people fly planes into buildings. Because no one wants to ask if maybe they are wrong about why they feel the way they feel. People like those Taliban fuckers will never stop and wonder if they only see things they way they do because it serves their purpose. Just like you will go to your grave rejecting the things that are brilliant because they dont serve your purpose.
My only purpose is to stay aware of the little walls the mind builds around us to keep us slaving like little worker ants. To keep us competing for status and females so that our genes can continue. I want to be apart from all that bullshit because i believe that the beauty of art should exist outside the biological roles life demands we play. You say i am a "Hitler", im actually trying to free you. But if you have your heart set on being joe blow metalhead and joe blow techno head than fine. Ride your identity crisis into some buildings and see if the world takes your personal cause any more seriously.
zacanger
musician and audodidact
Jillchaw said:
...Neither do a handful of biological studios and an irrational belief that music cannot exist without science.
Jillchaw said:
If that was an insult directed at my fiancee, I'd like you to take it back. She is truly the most talented vocalist and songwriter I have ever met.
Jillchaw said:
Again, I'd like to state that having a lot of knowledge about the science of music doesn't make you a songwriting genius. A lot of what you've stated to be proven by scientific study, most of us simply know to be true and follow, and we haven't wasted hours reading about it first. We might not know all the jargon, but we know music.
Jillchaw said:
Question: I like to wear three-piece suits and tuxes a lot. Does that mean I listen mostly to classical music? But then, sometimes I might wear tight jeans and hoodies, does that mean I listen to emo? Oh, but sometimes, I wear all black. Am I metalhead? OH! I KNOW! I've got an afro, so I MUST love disco!
Oh, btw, are you saying that the Beatles studied songwriting construction theory, or whatever? Now, I'm no expert on the Beatles, but it seems to me they probably just wrote songs, and any scientific method that you're percieving in their music just happens to fit. Good songwriters don't need to go to college and learn about songwriting, they can just do it. Education on the subject won't create a great songwriter, it'll just make a bad songwriter half-bad.
Jillchaw said:
Are you implying that electronic music is random and entirely computer generated? Try this. Get yourself some programming software and some samples, and see how quickly you can create some good electronic music. Go on. I've spent the past four days programming drums for a remix of Flying On Wings Of Steam by Chris Vrenna ('Alice' soundtrack). I speak from experience when I tell you that no accidental or entirely computer generated song will rank with good electronica. Go listen to some DJ Tiesto.
Jillchaw said:
Nostalgia can be for a time before one's own. My fencing instructor is nostalgiac for the late 17th and early 18th century. I am nostalgiac for the 80s, believe it or not. No one is saying that volume, attitude, and "sound destroying" take skill, and no one is saying that the Beatles were unskilled. But volume, attitude, and decomposition of a signal (I'm assuming that's what you were referring to?) can lend themselves to a song.
IronFlippy
Dedicated To My Member
Yea, we're discussing the recording techniques of music......theory?......history?............ear..training?...........science? Oh well, I tried.chessrock said:
Jillchaw, I see your point about our brains being the same. However, this has little to do with your previous arguments. And as far as the Beatles are concerned, they just experimented with stuff until they found something they liked. They just happened to come across good sounds a lot more often than other people. I have a feeling this is true for any composer (although I have no proof, I could be very wrong). You can sit down with all the science and music theory in the world and still come up with boring songs. It's breaking the rules and experimenting that makes good songwriting.
G
GreenDank
New member
...
Despite all the arguing going on, I think I get it. It's kind of like what Arnold Palmer said about golf when someone said he was a very lucky person for always getting such good golf scores. And he said, "yeah, and the more I practice, the luckier I get." Old-school/old sounds/timelessness - it all boils down to the performance and the songwriting. Me placing a mic here and there or using a plug-in won't really achieve it. They might make me happy for a second, but it won't make my little song timeless. I haven't studied music, I've studied biology. So for me to wonder why I can't write a really well-composed song shouldn't really be a surprise to me. I'm not ashamed I asked the initial question, but now I realize that I basically asked "how can I write a good song?"
Despite all the arguing going on, I think I get it. It's kind of like what Arnold Palmer said about golf when someone said he was a very lucky person for always getting such good golf scores. And he said, "yeah, and the more I practice, the luckier I get." Old-school/old sounds/timelessness - it all boils down to the performance and the songwriting. Me placing a mic here and there or using a plug-in won't really achieve it. They might make me happy for a second, but it won't make my little song timeless. I haven't studied music, I've studied biology. So for me to wonder why I can't write a really well-composed song shouldn't really be a surprise to me. I'm not ashamed I asked the initial question, but now I realize that I basically asked "how can I write a good song?"
easlern
Boredom artist
Well, I guess Jill answered the OP very well: there is no difference in good "old school" and good "new school" music because all good music is based on frequencies that are scientifically equivalent and invariable. In fact, we're all better off making baroque-style MIDI compositions of sine waves, untainted by the skill limits and predispositions of the performers, who are but mere mortals (unless of course, you're among a handful of writers in a specific genre singing in a specific language in a specific decade among the eons of music history.)
For Christ's sake Jill, what kind of soulless and emasculated composition style are you advocating? You're completely disregarding the catharsis, cultural context, and emotion that make a great pop song. Some of that emotion comes from the musicians' perception of themselves, surprise! And if you really think "Imagine" or "Come Together" would have had the same impact if they were released today, I'm convinced you're just like the Pitchfork and Hot Topic folks you continually deride. These songs have been covered ad nauseum, some good, some bad, but all the exact same composition. All the silly pedantic elements you champion were in every version but the performance and the context made or broke every one of them. That's why we distinguish between "old" and "new" school- they are different times with different cultural contexts, genres for audiences with different musical taste.
Sorry about the thread hijack, but I for one don't enjoy seeing the Comic Book Guy of homerecording continue to shit out off-topic rants unchecked.
Now excuse me, I have to go fly a plane into a building.
For Christ's sake Jill, what kind of soulless and emasculated composition style are you advocating? You're completely disregarding the catharsis, cultural context, and emotion that make a great pop song. Some of that emotion comes from the musicians' perception of themselves, surprise! And if you really think "Imagine" or "Come Together" would have had the same impact if they were released today, I'm convinced you're just like the Pitchfork and Hot Topic folks you continually deride. These songs have been covered ad nauseum, some good, some bad, but all the exact same composition. All the silly pedantic elements you champion were in every version but the performance and the context made or broke every one of them. That's why we distinguish between "old" and "new" school- they are different times with different cultural contexts, genres for audiences with different musical taste.
Sorry about the thread hijack, but I for one don't enjoy seeing the Comic Book Guy of homerecording continue to shit out off-topic rants unchecked.
Now excuse me, I have to go fly a plane into a building.