How to sound old-school and yet good?

brendandwyer said:
1. i would set up room mic's in tandem with close mics, or forego the close mics altogether.
2. it all hinges on the style that he band can pull off. the sound of jefferson airplane is unique to them. to approximate it, you would need musicians that emulate that sound

i've always thought it depends more on the performance than the room and mics put togther.
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good stuff! true the jefferson sound is unique, but I'm also referring to a quality of stuff from that time period. maybe a songwriting issue, but more of a technical one. to tell ya'll the truth, the magic I'm referring to may even be in part to the mastering. making something small and not mixed all that great (I mean who mixes drums all to one side these days?) sound BIG.
 
GreenDank said:
(I mean who mixes drums all to one side these days?)
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I like how it sounds. Van Morrison all the way... Just don't listen to it in headphones. ;)
 
There's this this great song by Chasing Furies where the drums are panned all the way to one side, but the effects are on the other side -- but they switch every couple of lines, which side they're on. Sounds annoying, but it worked in the song.
 
oh shit

Its pretty hilarious that no matter what i say somebody will still try to act smart and try to prove me wrong by twisting words around.

People have said that i claimed that i am a great songwriter just because i advocate the incorporation of technique above style. I never said one word about my personal ability. Anyone with a brain at all would know the difference between the two. I am merely a student, trying to learn, trying to do what i can. But what i try to learn is how certain things affect the human brain emotionally. And biology and songwriting method is 1000 times more effective in understanding how to play with the listeners emotions than just adopting current fashionable music and thinking you are done learning.

I know you all hate me and think im an idiot, but really, as musicians you should be eager to learn any trick possible to help carry your message acrossed. Most of you and most musicians are wrong about your art. You paint one tree and expect the audience to see a forest. And when you dont get the reaction you thought youd get you make the tree bigger, and make it neon green. But it is still not a forest. I know that is an easily mockable analogy, but try to read what is being said and not just the facetious elements that will fuel your flaming.

And as far as the beatles not being music students. They were. But their classroom was performing hundreds of standards for years and years. By the time they were famous they had absorbed much of what makes songs great.

You guys are completely wrong about music theory. I dont know what you are thinking when you hear the phrase "music theory", but its not what you think. Besides, i dont think theory replaces passion. I never ever said that once. Art is captured depictions of human emotion. Technique is what you use to achieve that vision. Technique cant replace vision, but just acting like you know everything and adopting current trends to help sell your songs doesnt work artistically either. You may believe that because youre playing something that seems undiscovered that you are breaking ground, but its an illusion. You dont know what youre doing. Its random facetious elements youve stolen from your various influences. And most of your influences are drawn from bands whos image and sound appeals to your sense of self and identity. I dont know why its so hard for people to admit that they might like certain music because it makes them feel like they are someone special.

I dont want to be like that. I want universal skill and i want to know what im doing. So i use anything i can to improve art. I try everything. And when all the passion and inspiration is on the table i can dig through it , find useable parts, and use technique to flesh it out into a full song. Sorry if thats "offensive" logic.
 
ok ok

Let me ask you this, does anyone here who mocks the use of songwriting technique know what it is they are mocking? You say its just crap. Exactly WHAT is it that is crap? Name some particular techniques that arent worth a writers time?

This is about to get interesting for real.
 
too funny

I am too full of myself by saying what? By defending Ray Davies? Thats how this whole pissing match got started. Then people started claiming in broader terms that older music isnt worth shit because its old. And basically in the same breath claiming that modern music has some sort of "edge" over non current stuff, just because its modern. Which is complete bullshit.

This is why everyone is so offended by what i said. Listen up because this is THE comprehension problem that is going on, creating and allowing an argument like this to continue. Saying that The Beatles or whoever are irrelevant to modern times is half bullshit. Yes, maybe to kids at the mall who think MTV invented music a year ago it may seem less than hard next to modern music. But that has nothing to do with the music itself compositionally. At the compositional level it smokes most modern music. And pretty much at the performance level as well unless you think voices like those grow on trees. You may try to claim that its simple music, but writing hooks with simplicity is tough as fuck. If simple progressions sold a song then please write me a few Beatles styled tunes that are as good as the originals. You cant and you wont. Because what goes into making those songs great is beyond "chords" or beats. I always laugh when i hear so called know it alls claim that the older music sucks because its "simple". The melodies and the arrangements are what sold those songs. Melody free chord progressions have never sold a song. EVER. Chords are never enough to sell a song. Its the melody. Dont believe me? How many famous songs are just chords? NONE. How many are just melody with no chords? Tons. Happy Birthday, pretty much all national anthems, childrens rhymes. Practically everything memorable is melody. And classic songs have melodies that never get old. So fucking wake up and quit saying that old music sucks and is simple. You could learn alot from it. Youre wasting your life trying to attitude your way artistically. Because any asshole with a louder amp or more of an attitude is going to smoke you eventually.

None of this matters, i know i am spinning my wheels. You cant convert zealots. But i still would really like to hear what songwriting theory methods arent worth learning from. And yes, many people claimed that learning all that was dumb and that all you need is attitude and a computer or distorted guitar.

I may not be the worlds greatest songwriter, but i am trying pretty hard to be as good as possible, to breathe as much life into tunes as i can. To give them a character that will stand up against the best tunes regardless of genre. Its not easy. You may say that i am a musical failure because i havent produced a "hit record". But this shit takes time. Who knows if i ever will write genius tunes, hit or not. But i know for a solid fact that none of you, NONE OF YOU, will ever be jack fucking shit writing distorted bullshit techno music hoping that your youth and your attitude will eventually prevail and impress this world. Wake up, it takes more than that. If thats all it took than everyone would have great songs that everyone liked. But no one does. Everyones songs suck and only they themselves and their girlfriends like it. So whos right? There are a billion long haired buttholes with distorted guitars. How will you stand out? How will you escape being just another one of a million working in your genre? Those questions, no matter how hard you fight them, will in time lead you to technique over "attitude" or style.

You can say im a dumbfuck all you want, but time will tell.
 
Geeezus, is this still going :D .

Oddly enough, I tend to agree with most of what Jillchaw's trying to convey here......at least in the last two posts, although the first post way back in this thread seemed to make sense too.

:cool:
 
Jillchaw: no one said the Beatles suck. No one said old music sucks because it's simple. No one said all you need is a computer and attitude. And I don't know about anyone else, but I don't write distorted techno, I actually play rockabilly. But that's beside the point. You're not full of yourself for defending Ray Davies, you're full of yourself because of your attitude. And as far as I can tell, you're the only zealot here.
 
There are probably two reasons people are annoyed by you, Jill. First, you seem to be assuming everyone here is a "long-haired butthole" trying to sound just like another band. Second, you're the only "long-haired butthole" here who actually said he WANTS to sound just like another band.
 
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