How about a SINGER'S FORUM?

  • Thread starter Thread starter chessparov
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As for me;
Take Buddy Holly's voice, add twenty years, subtract West Texan accent, substitute native Californian accent, then you'd hear
what he'd sound like if he was a 40+ year old surfer!

Chris
 
Good one!

Actually, in his youth Brian's voice was very beautiful indeed.
My second pick in the Beach Boys would have been Carl.
Both tenors BTW, whereas Buddy was a (lyric) baritone.

Chris
 
Keep it coming! If we're going to make a singer's forum happen, we'll have to generate a little more traffic than this. Gee, have you ever spent a long time learning to copy someon's diction, then spoken the words aloud to see what that diction really was? Try this with Jim Croce's "Bad, Bad, Leroy Brown" sometime. It's a hoot. Has anybody ever done the coordinated suits w/ the expressive semi-dancing ala "The Temptations"? I got to see them do "Papa Was a Rollin' Stone" in New York with the entire rythym section of Sly and the family Stone. That rocked! What do you think about people that just *have* to add the 137 grace notes to a fundamentally simple song or "The Star Spangled Banner"? I just want to slap them, like when Whitney Houston did "I Will Always Love You". How about the big pop duets, ala "Endless Love"? What about that special dorky singing voice that almost all nuns and Sunday school teachers are trained to have? Whatever happened to Ted Nealy, remember JC Superstar?
Sorry, this isn't, like, a thread. I'm just pointing out that we have so many experiences and issues we could share. What do you like for a stage mic, and what do you hate? Do you sing Gospel, pop, country, rap, scat, Bel Canto, blues, Celtic, metal? Go vocalists!- Richie
 
Recording Vocals

I'd be interested in learning more about recording vocals.

-What do you use for a vocal recording room? (Bathroom)

-What mic do you use for your voice and why?

-What pre, comp, EQ, reverb do you default to?

-Have you ever used Auto-Tune?
 
...Why would we make a forum that gives Britney Spears and Nsync any acces to be here...? I'm a singer, but I think Singer is... singing... and GOD decided DJ is not a musician... Got it boys...?:confused:
 
The songwriters forum should atleast be changed to the Singer/Songwriter forum.

I sing along w/

The Beatles
Earth To Andy
Third Eye Blind (occasionly)
Everclear

"I'd be interested in learning more about recording vocals.

-What do you use for a vocal recording room? (Bathroom)

-What mic do you use for your voice and why?

-What pre, comp, EQ, reverb do you default to?

-Have you ever used Auto-Tune?"

I use the far half of my basement for vocals, because it has a more live feel to it. Ocasionlly i will use the bathroom. I use a 58 for my voice, because thats what im used to using for live vocals, and of what i have it best fits my voice.
I use Audio Techinca pres on my board or behringer board pres. (ya i know there not that good but im poor), behringer automcom compression, and the eq on the boards.
Never used or seen an Auto-tune

"Well, singing is like playing guitar, except you go to God's guitar store and he gives you the only one you're ever going to get. Some people get the Martin, some the Hondo. I think I got a $300 Ovation- it could've been worse. I sound exactly like Jonathon Edwards."

but you have to remember its all opinion, some people would choose a hondo over the martin, some people would choose a kramer focus over a les paul custom (That i have done several times believe it or not)

Who do you think has the worst voice ever?
 
Would conjioned twins have two guitars, or would that be considered a doubleneck?:D
 
Phil Collins has the worst voice ever, but I still enjoy his work.
 
Cool ideas Richie.

Mark, my resources for signal chain are;
Studio Projects VTB-1>RNC compressor>Aphex 109 EQ>Lexicon MPX 200.

Vocal microphones;
Shure SM57
EV Cobalt C09 dynamic
Beyer Soundstar MKII dynamic
Sennheiser 421 MKII dynamic
Shure Beta 57 (shortly going to e-bay)
Sennheiser e835 dynamic (nice for bass range BTW)
AT 3527 omni SD condenser
Oktava MC-012 cardiod SD condenser

All have their place in the arsenal...Not "best" just "different".
Keep in mind it's the performance (or lack thereof!) that matters the most.

Like to record in either the upstairs master bedroom, or the living room. (hate recording in the master bd. closet!)
Bathrooms at home are too "live" for my taste.

Tried Autotune but didn't inhale, so does that count?

Would it be O.K. if we saved "techie" stuff about equipment for the equipment forums and the only "technical" stuff here would be
about ACTUALLY singing? Appreciate your interest on that though
Mark. After you see the 100th post on "best X under $100" you'll
probably feel the same too.

Axis, probably someone auditioning for "Amercian Idol".
Could you believe some of those songs? (including finalists)

Chris

P.S. Personally I'm staunchly against Autotune for my vocals.
The most I'm willing to cross the line would be to "comp"
an entire verse with another entire chorus-that's it though.
If I'm not ready or able to sing a certain song, there's a lot
more out there to be mangled-I mean sung!
 
Well, axis, I use a C3 for pretty, NTK for Rock/Blues, AKG D690 for stage. Joemeek twinQcs, no compression, no reverb, except maybe ambience turned all the way down on TC electronics M300. Autotune?- not.-Richie
 
Bel Canto

chessparov said:

Tried Autotune but didn't inhale, so does that count?
Click to expand...

Hey Chessparov,

I heard on another thread, and you made reference earlier in this thread, I believe (unless I'm mixed up) to singing Bel Canto. I've been meaning to keep an eye out for you and this seems to be the opportunity. As I read this thread, I couldn't help picking out the above quote as a bit ironic. There are many "interpretations" of what the Bel Canto technique involves and means. Just curious if your Bel Canto involves the idea of inhaling the voice??

Chris

... and put me down as another big vote for a singers or singer/songwriter forum.
 
Chris, I had the good fortune of being coached by a terrific opera singer
who helped familiarize me with classic bel canto techniques.
This no more made me an "authority" than an art student taking Art appreciation
becoming another Rembrandt! Yes there is a classical train of thought where
they thought "imagining" drinking the breath when inhaling would help for breath control.

Probably the greatest series of books on all this were the ones written by
E. Herbert Caesari. Absolutely essential for any classical or operatic singer.
They will answer any further questions much better than this student!
(although you're always welcome to ask)

For a pop or "legit" singer, however, the book/CD "Free Your Voice" by Roger Love
is excellent. That's the level I'm attempting to master anyway.
Never really used autotune BTW.

Chris
 
I, too, have had the good fortune of studying the Bel Canto technique from an accomplished opera singer. I've been taking lessons from him for four years now, and my voice has improved in very tangible ways - pitch, resonance, tone, strength, control.... everything really. More than looking for advice, I'm mostly looking for someone out there who also studies (or has studied) this technique - just to feel a little less alone in my pursuits.

Bel Canto is a word that seems to have adopted many different approaches within itself as a means toward singing. Many people who teach voice say they are trained in the Bel Canto technique, and thus, they also teach the Bel Canto technique. The problem, so it seems, is that they in fact do not. A friend of mine completed his degree in Canada, and went to Italy to study. He was there for six months and found many who claimed to teach it, but none actually did. (though they probably genuinely believed they did....a result of misconceptions passed on from their teachers....) As a result, he came back to Canada to resume his studies. I met someone myself who insisted very earnestly that she learned, used and taught the Bel Canto technique, but was undergoing treatment for nodes. If she was actually using the technique, the development of nodes would be absolutely impossible.

The genuine Bel Canto technique can't really be taught (actually no technique can, really...) by writing it down and reading it, but Lamperti wrote a number of ideas about the technique, I think around the turn of the century. (1890's??) One of the cornerstones of the technique involves the "inhalation of the voice." 99.999% of people will, of course, claim this to be impossible, but it works. Using the Bel Canto technique will have one singing stronger as the night wears on, and stronger towards the end of a tour, rather than vice-versa which is a very common consideration for singers. I guess I'm trying to find the 0.001% of singers out there who also use the technique that are reading this and thinking "finally, someone who doesn't think I'm insane...."

Chris
 
Well, I have studied Bel Canto for 6 years, but not in a long time. I'm a good deal less religious about it than Chris, and the development of nodes is entirely possible regardless of your technique, and has a strong genetic component. Bel Canto isn't magic, or mystical, or anything else except a discipline based around a set of core techniques. Frankly, I gave up Bel Canto when I realized that the end product was something I didn't want to be.
I'm much more interested in sounding like Dan Fogelberg than Enrico Caruso, and I by far prefer the Irish tenors to the Italian. However, Bel Canto greatly improved my breath control and projection, and I would recommend it to anyone for improving their vocal technique. Also, Bel Canto's projection, so essential in an 18th century concert hall, is a great way to clip a mic or preamp, and lends itself very poorly to good mic technique. For me, "projection" comes from a big mucking power amp and Carvin cabs. Oh well, each to their own. Bel Canto means pretty singing, and in the end, we all have to decide what is pretty to us.-Richie
 
Believe or not Chris, it's actually understood what you're talking about. Lotte Lehman goes into this in her books also.
Look for Caesari's books though-I kid you not!
They were the ones the immortals Gigli and Tettrazzini
(yes chicken Tettrazzini fame!) endorsed.

Richard, FWIW here are my "guidelines";

pop music = "conversational" style singing, roots were folk music
legitimate= singing "Cats"/"Phanton of the Opera" type material
classical= singing solo/chorus with light instrumentation
opera= able to sing over an orchestra effectively and scale
buildings in a single bound-without a microphone!

Chris

P.S. Got a chance to sing onstage with a dynamite Alto last night
on some pop/rock with excellent "legit" technique-much fun!
Her voice sounded like a cross between Bonnie Raitt and
Grace Slick.
 
Her name is Karen and I just met her for the first time so it's
not known how interested she is in forums like this.
My wife BTW has a very pretty soubrette soprano voice,
however, she's too shy to perform in public unlike hubby.
Has a "Karla Bonoff"(spelling?) type of voice.
(not too shy to critique MY singing though!)

Chris
 
Richard Monroe said:
the development of nodes is entirely possible regardless of your technique, and has a strong genetic component. ... I'm much more interested in sounding like Dan Fogelberg than Enrico Caruso
Click to expand...

The development of nodes will not happen unless the voice is strained. Using the Bel Canto technique (if you're doing it right.... I'm still learning it....) will not strain the voice, so no nodes!!

While I agree partly that the Bel Canto technique results in certain tonal characteristics, a large part of your tone is just a product of who you are and how you're built. A Fender guitar will not really sound like a Gibson, no matter what you do to it. Beyond that, it's all a matter of how you approach it. A good example of this is a guy named Brian Vollmer. He was (and still is) the lead singer for Helix, but also sings at weddings and stuff. If you can find any Helix recordings, you would never guess that he uses an operatic technique. Part of it does involve taking liberties with the technique for "artistic" purposes. I'm not sure if the audio is back up, but check out www.planethelix.com for some Helix stuff, and then www.brianvollmer.com to hear some of his classical stuff. It's hard to believe it's the same guy using the same technique.

Chess... I'll have to check out those books. I'm encouraged that you don't think I'm insane talking about inhaling the voice. :D

Chris
 
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