How about a SINGER'S FORUM?

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chessparov

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This is sort of a "Part II" to a thread I started some time ago.
Not really expecting to create a new forum here, although it's
rather amusing we have guitar/drum/etc. forums galore, and the
MOST important part of a song is conspicuously absent.

So...
How about starting our own informal forum via this thread?

We could discuss common ground like;

1) Techinque
2) Stage fright (& recording fright!)
3) Interpretation
4) Why we sing

You get the idea!
The microphone is now yours...

Chris
 
Since all I can do good is sing, this sounds great to me. To give you a little info; I sing gospel music and have been singing now for approx. 10 years. I've had no formal training except listening to some vocal tape courses. I sing lead with the group I'm with, but can also sing baritone, tenor, and 2nd tenor as long as they are in my range. As for stage fright, I seldom get it anymore. I usually sing in front of 150-1200 people and, for the last two years have done approx. 60-100 bookings per year. We were in the studio this past Sat. for 7 hours working on our second project and plan on finishing up this coming Sat.
Like I said I sing gospel, but also in my spare time love to sing 70's rock, country, blues, and bluegrass. Maybe I didn't say so much that I will not have anything to discuss?
 
I'll be subscribing to this thread. I'm a singer and bass player. I've played other instruments in the past but I'm not up on any of them. Not reall up on bass yet eather. But, I'm 32 and I've been singing most of my life. Mostly gospel/praise music. I'm a techie-geek by trade but music and recording is at least a major hobbie, if not an obsession/passion.

It would be great if we could get a forum set up.
 
That's a terrific genre of singing you're both involved in.
Look at all the fantastic singers like Elvis, Aretha, Sam Cooke,
etc. who sprang out of a gospel background.

My comfort level on stage BTW is getting better to the point where I'm even remembering to BREATH (better).
Singing in an acapella quarter really puts you under the vocal
microscope-especially when we sing in front of other (gasp)
singers who actually know how we should sound!

Any tips on lessening the 'ol butterflies?

Chris

P.S. Mark, expect THIS to be the forum!
 
Chris,

Thanks for the complement and kind words.

Singing Praise and Worship kind of has a built in "butterfly stopper." The idea for me is that I'm not performing to a bunch of people but rather leading the performers. It's worship time and the audience joins in. If the audience is doing their job, they are too involved to hear me screw up. I always screw up at least a little bit.

The second is that the real 'audience' is my creator. So, basically, if I suck, he made me this way so how could he complain.

Actually, the biggest challenge is to be in the right mind-set. I'm nowhere near perfect, and I have no right singing the words that I am leading others to sing. It's a constant struggle for me to remember that I'm only worthy and capable because of the person I sing for.

Having said that, all of the above drives me to work and practice so that I can be effectively used. So that I can live up to the honor of being given just enough gift to be able to sing and not enough to think I'm anything special.

I always step down from a time of worship and my overwhelming feeling is humility. The better we did at leading a group of friends into worship, the more humble I feel. It is without a doubt the most rewarding thing I’ve ever done.

Don’t know if you’ll be able to pull anything useful out of that, but I’m in the rambling mood.
 
I agree totally with Mark. I guess one of the best ways that I've gotten better about not being nervous on stage is that the Lord called me to sing. I know that without a doubt. Regardless of genre He gave you your voice and it is not a mistake. Before I go on stage I always concentrate on the message that I'm trying to get across to the audience. I don't concentrate on notes or timing. That all falls into place when you are trying to convey that message.
Check out our site: www.geocities.com/thedavistrio
 
Advice for a wannabe singer

Hope you all don't mind me asking a few questions. I mainly have been a guitarist for most of my life. About three years ago I started trying to sing. I went through one of those practise at home voice courses. I noticed that I gained a whole lot in the range of my voice. At anyrate I'm not satisfied with my voice, so I would like to get some advice on the following....

My main problem is control. How do I train my voice to be more agile? I have a pretty good ear, and can tell when I'm flat or sharp. It seems like I'm over shooting the note, or just a bit flat. Sometimes I hit right.

How long should a singer warm up before performing or recording?

:) Trotter
 
I'll vote yes for singer forum...

I guess the warm up time depends on the singer, but for me it takes about 20 minutes of yodling

Riku
 
Mark & Gospel, thanks for the feedback.
Good points on focusing on the meaning of the song, rather than ourselves.
Have to admit that "notes and words" have been to a degree, my security
blanket in the sense that if they both came out "correctly" that meant things
went O.K. The law of diminishing returns has a way of entering the picture then!

Trotter, some singers like myself should warm-up for at least 20-30 minutes.
One friend of mine could warm-up in about 5 minutes! (a tenor of course)
We're all different to some extent on how long it takes, and it can vary from day
to day.
The tendency is that the more singing you do (without straining your voice),
the better your control will become, like any other instrument.
Joining a singing "community" group whether it's barbershop, doo-wop, church,
etc. is a time tested approach. You could also take some lessons on an as-needed
basis as you encounter vocal challenges along the way.
If you're singing for fun, remember to keep your study fun.
Too many songs to learn and enjoy, too little time!

Chris
 
A singer's forum is a REAL cool idea!

I sing almost since I can think, but only did it for myself for a very long time, and have never had any real training... Since I started to sing for an audience, I sang rockabilly, jazz standards, some beatle-ish stuff, soul and now I sing in a punk rock band. The funny thing is that my stage fright almost is gone since I have my children - you somehow loose a lot of the need to be PERFECT...

I had an enourmous voice when I was young (about 18), as I could singe from bass baritone up to soprano (quite clean). But I always hated my 'feminine' clear voice, and did everything (smoking and drinking a lot) to get a more masculine voice...

I feel that now the music often urges me to press and sing very high (offspring-like which now is my absolute upper margin) more and then my voice gets quite sensitive to colds etc.´, a problem that I never had in the past. So I'd like to know from other guys who sing rather hard, how they avoid these problems...


Ciao,

aXel
 
Trotter,
I've found out over the last 10 years that it is best to warm up on a song or notes that is in the low part of your range. As for time in warming up, that all depends on what you feel comfortable with. When it comes to control, I think that comes with practice. I've found out that the voice is like a muscle. The more you exercise the stronger you get and the more control you have. One of the single most important things I've done to improve my voice is (it may be a surprise to you) drinking huge amounts of water. On the day before and day of a performance I try to drink at least a gallon of water and stay away from caffeine.
 
I usually don't have a problem with "redlightitis" when it comes to laying a vocal track. As a matter of fact I usually do better because I'm paying closer attention to pitch, inflection, and enunciation rather than when I'm just screwing around with a part.

It's the piano part I usually blow. I don't know what it is about hitting that record button that turns my fingers to rubber and my brain to mush.
 
volltreffer,
My brother sings tenor in our group and, in the past, had vocal problems. The problems were solved when we lowered the keys on all our songs from 1/2-1 step. And as I said before, drink plenty of water.

Sennheiser,
We were in the studio this past weekend and my voice went to mush when we started. The producer immediately stopped and told us all to relax. It's amazing how we can sing in front of 100s (sometimes 1000) and not miss a beat and then get in front of a studio mic, producer, and engineer and have to loosen up.
 
Over the last year I have also begun to work on singing, as well as, lyric writing. I had never been inspired to sing before, and I had worked with a singer/lyricist so the need wasn't there either.

However, over the past 5 years I have been doing things on my own and I never felt a song was "finished" until I there were lyrcis and vocals. At the same time, I was listening to more vocal-centric music, with interesting lyrics that gave me inspiration, and that eventually got me once again appreciating 50's-70's soul music, as well as the blues.

So I started taking some vocal lessons at one of the Universities in town - a group class of 4-5 people. This was great in not only content and learning, but making you perform in front of people right away. I generally don't have stage fright with playing an instrument, and in my day job I regularly give presentations/speechs in front of 5-500 people. But with my voice, it is like starting from scratch. Your body is a weird instrument. You can't "see" how to play something, and there are lots of things at work at the same time -- breathing, control, the different voices, posture, mouth/tongue positions etc. Add to this the fact that I have a good ear, and it can drive you crazy! You know you don't sound good but you aren't sure how to change it.

Anyway, I have been working with a close friend who is a vocalist for the last 6 months. See has given me 1 on 1 lessons and has helped me understand my voice a lot better. She has also helped me tremendously in arranging the vocal line and style for songs I write. Tying the style to the words (or not), setting the key, and figuring out where I do weird things, like pronunciation or in-between notes. Tonight is my last lesson, sadly, b/c she is moving. So not sure what I am going to do.

No questions really. This is a good thread and I am sure I'll have questions soon enough. Just wanted to get some of my background out there.
 
Gospel, as you probably know, it's the water you drank 2 or 3
HOURS (or more) before that has the most impact on keeping the
cords lubricated. Perhaps that's why session singers are notorious for all their restroom trips!

aXel, even the best trained opera singers are catagorized on their
tone quality and size of voice. It's generally a big deal for an opera singer who's been singing Italian type arias to start singing the kick-ass Wagnerian repetoire as some of the best trained have had their voice DAMAGED from attempting it!
If it's hazardous for them, it's more hazardous for those of us with less than stellar training.
Most male and female voice are "lyric" meaning they are best suited to singing melody. A few singers have a much thicker sound and can handle a heavy vocal line that would tire-eventually damage a lyric voice! (mine's dead center BTW)
Personally I'm in agreement with the Old Italian School who were
steafastly against the use of falsetto for men's voices.
They believed it tended to dilute the power of a male voice.
(the use use of castrati by the Church is an entirely different topic)
So when you said as a teenager you were singing as a soprano,
that tells me you were actually singing in falsetto.

The great tenors like Caruso used a technique called "falsettone"
to develop their high C's (and beyond) where they blend the true
head voice with their chest voice. This particularly helped them in
the pre-microphone era to sing in front of a full orchestra for
hundreds of people and still be heard.

Chris
 
I would fully support a singer's forum.......and I am a percussionist.

I like your handle, chessparov..... I am assuming I know what it means. What do you think of Kramnik and Anand, who have gained some ground vs. Kasparov recently?

regards,
bingbing
 
We were in the studio this past weekend and my voice went to mush when we started. The producer immediately stopped and told us all to relax. It's amazing how we can sing in front of 100s (sometimes 1000) and not miss a beat and then get in front of a studio mic, producer, and engineer and have to loosen up.
Click to expand...

Amazing how different situations affect different people. I'm not very good at public speaking at all. I'm very easily led astray of the matter at hand. I start going off on a tangent somewhere that has almost nothing to do with the original subject, but I have no problem singing in front of people or a studio mic.

In fact, I have trouble if there's not a mic in front of me. It's like it's supposed to be there or I cant sing.

It's my fingers that get scared!:D I try and tell 'em it'll be OK but they won't listen.
 
bing, that handle was chosen in honor of all the chessplayers who
only had a few freedoms like chess while they were living under
communism in the Eastern Block, and still are in Cuba.

Kramnik, Anand, and Kasparov are all terrific players, however the
"King" was Fischer IMHO. Haven't really followed the chess world
closely for the last 7 or 8 years though.
Kramnik was Kasparov's choice for heir apparent many years ago,
and Anand has influenced many Indian youngsters to become very
strong masters or Grandmasters. If anyone's curious, my strength
would be about low Senior Master (approx. 2400 USCF) after about
3 months intensive training to shake off the rust.

There have been some Grandmasters with considerable musical talent.
Vasily Smyslov was a concert level classical/operatic singer.
Nigel Short was a lead singer of an up and coming rock bank in England,
who gave up his musical carreer to eventually challenge Kasparov.
(Fischer was a HUGE Motown fan BTW)

Chris
 
Anyone have any singing "gigs" this weekend? I will be quite busy. We will be going back in the studio Saturday morning to finish up our project. Saturday night we will be singing at a prison (which should be interesting). Sunday night we are doing a local church's Labor Day celebration.
 
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