help me spend my money neumann vs studio projects vs avalon

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Phosphene

Phosphene

Horse Diaper
Ive got a home studio that i record myself and my band and other local Nashville bands in. I just got an Avalon 737 and I record to a VS-1880. I have a money spending dilema here... what to get next? Im thinking of either getting
1) pair of KM184s for drum overheads/acoustic guitar
2) neumann tlm 103 for voice/acoustic guitar/mic'd mesa guitar cab. etc
3) studio projects t3 tube mic for same as above
4) another avalon 737 (pre /comp/eq)

this money is giving me 3rd degree burns...need to get rid of it soon....

i already have AKG414, AT4050, 421, 57s, akg1000s, etc. I want either the tlm103 or t3 (having never heard them myself) just to have a variety of mic colorations available. I want the 184s because i bet they sound better than my 1000s. I want the 737 because i want 2 of them for overheads/stereo/mastering/lovemaking.....you understand....

which one of the 4 would you get and why...
 
I'm far from the expert around here, but it would seem to me to put the km184s on top, simply because they seem to fill a larger hole in your current lineup; I'd replace the c1000s before adding another LD color to your palette.

Actually, if you really need to get rid of money, how about two differing sets of SDs? Besides the Neumanns, how about others like the Josephsons, DPAs, Gefells, and for another color, a set of Schoeps or Earthworks?

And if that money is still burning a hole in your pocket, shoot me a message. :D
 
1. Neumann KM184 mics: Great choice. A more project studio choice would be a pair of Oktava MK012 from Guitar Center. No, they're not as good but they probably do everything a home studio needs. If you go that route, then get them out and check them at Guitar Center before you walk out the door. You'll be QC'ing and matching your own pair.
2. Neumann TLM103: I'd more opt for something like the Blue Dragonfly. It looks cool. It's got a nice high end to it without being brittle in any way.
3. Studio Projects T3: Yes, it'd be a different color but as long as your spending money I'd got for something like the Dragonfly.
4. Another Avalon: Why not. But, how about the Toft ATC? It's a totally different shade of everything plus it's two channels. Otherwise, I tend to like modular stuff myself such as the Speck Model ASC EQ.

Steve
www.mojopie.com
 
Personally I'd replace the VS.....................OK, I know that's not what you wanted to hear:D

And ozraves is right about the Toft ATC-2.



:cool:
 
If your spending money like that, it makes me ask if you are going professional or project?

Danny
 
TLM 103 and a T3.

Very different sounding and both very very useful.
 
Well, as much as I think you should probably grab a pair of SD's (and yes, a pair of the Neumans will sound sooo much better than your 1000s), I can't help but notice that your a little short in the preamp dept... The 737 is a one channel right (or wrong)? So if you've got a pair of SD's you would still need another preamp, unless you want to use the pre on your board which I don't think you do. Preferable the same one I suppose... Can you afford another 737, and a pair of SD's? Or maybe, you rather get a different 2 channel pre like the Great River... Then you could use your 2 stereo mics through the GR, and vocals through the 737 at the same time, and do some really nice live acoustic/vocal stuff, which is always a lot of fun. (I'm not sure exactly how much money is in question here)....

I think that your 4050 should work for now as your LD (assuming that you think it sounds ok on your singer), as it's a pretty decent microphone. The akg 1000s on the other hands, have to be replaced (esspecially for stuff like acoustic guitar) ;)
 
dirty money

yea, i used to have a vs880 and "upgraded" to 1880.
Replace the VS with what....?
my allowance here is probably around $1500 currently. Yea, project or professional....id say project definatly, but i want to get as good of quality equiptment as possible to sound as pro as possible. i know a good deal of that comes from experience, experience, experience and tecnique, source quality, etc

I think it might be a tossup between the KM184s and a new Avalon, although the avalon didnt woo me like i thought it would, but it still sounds nice. Well, before that ive been using a ART TPS rackmout pre.... ha?

another ?...is buying the KM184s as a stereo set a must? i assume the QC at Neumann is pretty good, but...matched set is a good bet, right?

there are no GCenters in Nashville sadly and the Mars closed down a year ago (they had OK mics to try out), so there isnt really a place to go to experiment with mics before i buy them. there is macmidimusic that i am waiting on a call from on the T3...

Ill check out the Toft ATC...never heard of it, but i will research it, definatly! and Great River...ill look into that too.

ive been recording my own music for years now, but only recently started recording my friends bands and they all have been impressed...but its all learning for me. For example, ive been reading the thread that Chris F started about mic polarity/characteristics and ive learned alot so far. I kinda thought SD/LD were suited for high freq/low freq respectively.....so i was wrong on that. Im glad i found this forum....its just what i need....a place to learn

let the comments roll in .... the help is much appreciated!
 
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My understanding is that the Neumann KM84 is smoother/less hyped than a KM184.

If you get the T3, IIRC, there's a free factory option to have the frequency response set "flatter".
Fletcher seems to think well of the EQ in the Toft's BTW.

Chris
 
Phosphene, with what you have already, I'd recommend a pair of Groove Tubes GT44 tube mid condensers $489 each- and you can later order additional pattern capsules. You'll get more use out of them than anything you listed. Great on OH's, amps, vocals. With the 414 and 4050 you already have the clean part of the pallette covered.

You already have a 414, which is a much better acoustic gtr mic, IMO, than the 103.

If you want to add a dual pre, I'd look at a Phoenix Audio (UK) DRS-2 transformerless input mic pre/DI $2150 or an A Designs Audio MP-2 tube mic pre/DI $1250. You'll get more mileage out of either of those over more applications than another Avalon 737 or Great River NV.

Dan Richards
Digital Pro Sound
The Listening Sessions
 
avalon 737

has anyone else been disappointed with the 737? like i said, it sounds good, but not "holy shit" good, IMO. but then i wanted to match what i already had so i could run them together for my overheads and mastering....
 
Phosphene, on the Avalon 737, if you're running it into your VS1880 through the XLR inputs on the VS, then what you're hearing is not really the 737, but the 737 running through the VS mic pres and through the VS A/D converters.

Running your 737 – or any other pre or channel strip – through a Lucid AD9624 A/D conveter would yield a very different picture.

Dan Richards
Digital Pro Sound
The Listening Sessions
 
AHHHAAA!!! ok i was told by avalon that i needed to run XLR out of the 737 to TRS into the 1880 channels 3-8 (not 1 and 2, because of the preamp)....

then i called Roland and they said it didnt matter what channel i plugged it into as long as the trim was on LINE and not MIC, therefore there isnt any preamp flavor...

who is really right on this one? and $800 for the AD convertor? oh man....
 
Avalon 737

and then run the convertor into the digital in on the 1880? so this is why i have not been impressed with the 737 eh? makes sense....but now i need to spend $800 for it to sound true blue? there goes my money for new mics.....sigh
 
Phosphene said:
Ive got a home studio that i record myself and my band and other local Nashville bands in. I just got an Avalon 737 and I record to a VS-1880. I have a money spending dilema here... what to get next? Im thinking of either getting
1) pair of KM184s for drum overheads/acoustic guitar
2) neumann tlm 103 for voice/acoustic guitar/mic'd mesa guitar cab. etc
3) studio projects t3 tube mic for same as above
4) another avalon 737 (pre /comp/eq)

this money is giving me 3rd degree burns...need to get rid of it soon....

i already have AKG414, AT4050, 421, 57s, akg1000s, etc. I want either the tlm103 or t3 (having never heard them myself) just to have a variety of mic colorations available. I want the 184s because i bet they sound better than my 1000s. I want the 737 because i want 2 of them for overheads/stereo/mastering/lovemaking.....you understand....

which one of the 4 would you get and why...
Click to expand...
If I was you... I'd get a matched pair of AKG 451's, because you need a good pair of SDC mic's. Oh, and I'd replace the VS1880 with an HD24 and or etc...
 
The Groove Tube 44's are pretty cool mics as DOT mentioned... I would go for a pair of Josephson C-42's over a pair of Neumann KM-184's... in general they're quite a bit less 'strident' sounding...

The Gefell M-930 is also a much more musical sounding alternative to the TLM-103... just because you're on a 'project studio' budget doesn't immediately insist that you get loaded up with mediocre crap just because there are great big full page advertisements that tell you to load up on mediocre crap.
 
down to earth

imho - you dont need to spend a lot on a mic to get a good sound
on a track. in my 25 yrs ive used neumanns down to little japanese mics with qtr inch plugs on them.
i have a beat up mic here that has a distinct sound on guitar cabs that i wouldnt part with and it was 20 buks if i remember.
in my opinion peiople are always buying mics because they are
often lazy about working on their mic positioning and engineering skills. mic positioning imho is often the most important skill.
and it takes years to do it correctly on a variety of sources.
give me a 57 and a beyer m88 , maybe a 421 and a halfdecent
LD condensor and i can do a song. One of my favorite mics is still the pzm type. one can do a lot with those.
 
What dot said....

It is a shame to run such a nice pre
thru the VS inputs, if your going to stick
with the 1880 ( i use the 2480 myself)
get the A/D converter, later when you
upgrade your recorder it will still be
worth having, your NOT really hearing
what that Avalon sounds like.

Ray
 
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