Small bedroom studio acoustics help

[ecc83]

I think they may have gone Dave. Domain for sale?

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Not chased that up but start there.

Dave.

 

[HobbyProducer94]

My room is over-symmetric, but I have recorded in some more open, completely asymmetric space in the house and it's not a problem in recording so much as one in mixing. And, having *near*-field monitors is the primary tool used there, along with attacking the 1st reflection points on the sides with trapping (or really heavy drapes) and, possibly "clouds" (overhead panels).

The energy in the sound dissipates (inverse square law) with distance, so anything that gets past your ears is going to travel some distance before it returns. If it returns quickly, then it potentially confuses your mix decisions, especially if it hits highly reflective surfaces. That's why you trap 1st reflections and behind you. And, it's why the asymmetry is beneficial to some extent there, since it some reflections will effectively lose all their energy in that travel. Now, if you are recording a drum-kit or loud electric guitar amp, not so much, but for acoustic recordings, the energy is low, and you should mix with your speaker levels not too loud, either. I'm not discounting it as a factor, just saying I think you can probably control it, once you set up and get an idea of what it *might* be doing to your monitoring environment.

I have "Pergo" flooring with some cheap area rugs, and just trapping for monitoring overhead. I think it's Ok. (Should be some videos in my profile recorded in that room, and the recent mandolin duet to decide if I am full of mud or not.)

I have watched the acoustic field guy on yt and everything seems clearer to me, in one video he explained that small rooms (<1500sqf) is hell for studio. As he said it, "just find another room"

But then again, i'm stuck with this one, and I'll try to make best of it by building bass traps and everything you guys helped me on this topic and see where it goes from there.
@keith.rogers thank you for your useful tips and latest regarding *near*-field monitors, didn't know there are difference between models honestly.
When it's done, it should be at least good for recording vocals and guitar and I'm happy with that (not that I'll get anywhere near as good as I want to be at mixing, science for itself )

No! Those are foam. You need at least 4X as much thickness of foam to accomplish the same bass trapping as rockwool.

Again, thank you so much for this information, I've seen videos on how to make these traps using rockwoll and it should be even cheaper than buying foam ones.

I picked so much informations from all of you good people, in about half a year of searching all of these info slipped for me (guess I didn't know where to search them). I'm sure that this will be helpful for someone having a similar problem as myself.

Best regards,
Mile

 

[TimOD]

These were made by me, very similar to Atkron 205's traps, about $30.00 or so per panel. I hinged them and added feet so they could be placed just about anywhere. I usually place a small folded blanket in the area where the hinge is to block that little bit of long narrow space. I also have similar traps in every corner, covering a good deal of the walls, and suspended over the mixing spot (the room pictured is not the main space). If you can work with wood, simply make these. I've made about twenty, mostly 4 x 2 feet, but smaller and larger too--the ones pictured allow 6 foot tall me to sing into a mic that is in the center of the folded traps, which are about 80 inches or so. You'll save a ton of money, and it's pretty easy. You definitely want a pneumatic stapler/nail gun though!

 

[mjbphotos]

View attachment 113818
These were made by me, very similar to Atkron 205's traps, about $30.00 or so per panel. I hinged them and added feet so they could be placed just about anywhere. I usually place a small folded blanket in the area where the hinge is to block that little bit of long narrow space. I also have similar traps in every corner, covering a good deal of the walls, and suspended over the mixing spot (the room pictured is not the main space). If you can work with wood, simply make these. I've made about twenty, mostly 4 x 2 feet, but smaller and larger too--the ones pictured allow 6 foot tall me to sing into a mic that is in the center of the folded traps, which are about 80 inches or so. You'll save a ton of money, and it's pretty easy. You definitely want a pneumatic stapler/nail gun though!

What did you fill them with that was that cheap?

 

[rob aylestone]

soundonsound.com not studiosound.com

The one thing that rarely gets asked is what does the space sound like now? If you have your studio monitors already, then why not play some music and some test signals like pink noise through them and look at the room response - you'll see if you are bass heavy or light and if there are any resonances from room nodes. This will give you a better idea of what you need to do. Traps or absorbers are the usual things, but they are problem solvers - and until you can spot where your problems are, you can't fix them!

 

[TimOD]

What did you fill them with that was that cheap?

Fiberglass. R-13. I started using Roxul after about 10 of them or so. The bigger panels, at a full 6 feet tall, were probably a bit more, maybe between $35 and $40. The wood sides (1 x 4) were pretty cheap, not like now! Those six foot panels now would probably set me back about $50.00 or so for material now. The fabric I got at Ikea--it's actually a cheap comforter that I got on sale and cut up.
Addendum: I did forget something: Those adjustable feet, and the hinges. That is an additional $20.00 or so, but most of the panels don't feature those extras.

 

[mjbphotos]

R13 fiberglass is not really good for panels unless you get it very thick (like 24"!).

 

[Papanate]

My plan is to get bass traps on the every corner of the room, and DIY variant of acoustic panels (with rockwool) that i'll be spreading across the room. I had a plan also of building some wooden diffusors if that could help acoustics of the room (i am a woodworker by profession btw, so any diy variant works for me).

I have a little floor plan with dimensions of room and also furniture that i attached into post. Small white boxes that are drawn into floor plan should represent acoustic panels that i plan to build.

I am most grateful for any suggestions that you may have for me.

Before you put in bass traps and acoustic panels - you need to measure you room with REW or something like it - find out what the room is sound like acoustically and then adjust accordingly. Just putting in Bass Traps and Panels randomly might help - or it might throw your room into a complete different problem acoustically.

 

[HobbyProducer94]

Before you put in bass traps and acoustic panels - you need to measure you room with REW or something like it - find out what the room is sound like acoustically and then adjust accordingly. Just putting in Bass Traps and Panels randomly might help - or it might throw your room into a complete different problem acoustically.

I've seen some videos about that, I'll be sure to check it out, thank for the tip

 

[mjbphotos]

Before you put in bass traps and acoustic panels - you need to measure you room with REW or something like it - find out what the room is sound like acoustically and then adjust accordingly. Just putting in Bass Traps and Panels randomly might help - or it might throw your room into a complete different problem acoustically.

Inevitably all small rooms need trapping, particularly the corners and points of first reflection. But you are correct in that first investigating what the sound is doing is a good step.

 

[TimOD]

R13 fiberglass is not really good for panels unless you get it very thick (like 24"!).

I know. But there was a very noticeable difference in the room acoustics. I know this because before I put the traps up, it was like an echo chamber--when we played, there were constant issues with howl-around, and recording was a waste of time. After the panels went up (all of them R13), the difference was very noticeable, and recordings made in that small room turned out very well indeed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but 24" thick battens are no longer R 13, but more like R 30, no?

 

[mjbphotos]

I know. But there was a very noticeable difference in the room acoustics. I know this because before I put the traps up, it was like an echo chamber--when we played, there were constant issues with howl-around, and recording was a waste of time. After the panels went up (all of them R13), the difference was very noticeable, and recordings made in that small room turned out very well indeed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but 24" thick battens are no longer R 13, but more like R 30, no?

Ok, what you got rid of was the flutter echo, which, yes, can be very noticeable in a sheetrock walled room. This means the bass is still bouncing around until you treat the corners (especially) with rockwool or compressed fiberglass. If you don't record/mix anything with low end (bass, kick), then its not so much an issue, but you can notice the difference if you put on some music with strong low end, then move around the room and listen how things change.
R values are for thermal insulation measurement, don't really mean anything for sound.

 

[TimOD]

I get that--my referencing the R value was just to make that point about the thickness of the stuff. In the room I was referring to, there was shiny, cheap paneling over plaster. The ceiling was a type of interlocking "acoustic" tile, which seemed to be a real benefit acoustics-wise. The gobos were on all the walls, and in corners, though not up in the ceiling corners themselves. While I understand that they weren't going to be the best, they did help a bit with bass frequency control--on the kick drum and toms for sure. Of course I record bass guitar and kick drums; the kicks are/were recorded live in the room, and I got good results. Bass guitar was alway injected right in; no amps. The actual mixing was done in another room, and that room (as well as the recording room of course) was not ideal, but the use of many of the traps I made did make a difference not just with flutter echo/high frequency issues but lower frequencies as well.